MPEG Edit Studio Pro LE Questions
 

I am considering the purchase of a JVC GR-HD1 but am concerned about editing the HD video. Can some of you that are using the software chime in on what you think of it overall? I have read about the issues regarding HD/SD and dropping off the first and last few seconds but does the thing work? Does it reliably upload and download between the camera and the PC? Are the edits clean, are there good transistions? I currently use Preimere with DV and would like to know how the JVC software will compare with my experience with Preimiere.

Thanks to the group in advance.

Re: MPEG Edit Studio Pro LE Questions
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Marc Stayman : I am considering the purchase of a JVC GR-HD1 but am concerned about editing the HD video. Can some of you that are using the software chime in on what you think of it overall? I have read about the issues regarding HD/SD and dropping off the first and last few seconds but does the thing work? Does it reliably upload and download between the camera and the PC? Are the edits clean, are there good transistions? I currently use Preimere with DV and would like to know how the JVC software will compare with my experience with Preimiere.

Thanks to the group in advance. -->>>

I think we're all having problems with the JVC editing 1.0 software. Only 1.0 software apps I've ever used with any or great success was Final Cut Pro 1.0 (used it for two years before i could upgrade--I was cutting my film).

If you're gonna buy, go for the HD10, trust me (and us)!

heath

Starting Over!#!!
 

While working on my first project, I'm just now really testing the editor. Import about 60 minutes of clips I just took from Alaska and starting to cut them up. I got 01:22 (mm:ss) into the Timeline and now cannot save. Keep getting the following error:

????? 'spespele.exe' ????? 0040BED5 ????? 00000213 ?????????????????.

I have removed EVERYTHING off the Timeline but still cannot save so it looks like I'll have to start from scratch! Before I ran into this problem, the two transitions I used and the couple of audio transitions appeared to work well. However, I'm very disappointed with the editor.

I wonder if the Editor has any technical support? I will now attempt to try one more time to rebuild the project. However, I would rather be using a more established editor or an editor that has some support.

Question to Group: I have heard that Adobe Premier Pro 6.5 will edit HD. I've got a trial copy and it doesn't appear to import files with the '.mt2' file extension. Would I have to export from the camera in DV format in order to use Adobe Premier Pro 6.5?

Also, does someone have a contact at JVC that would answer questions about the Editor?

Thanks,

Sasha

HD10
 

Heath,

You said I should buy the HD10 but, correct me if I am wrong, the HD10 will not alleviate the problems with the editing software, right?

I am hesitant to buy the HD10 because I am not finding it for sale anywhere and if I did, I presume that it will not be discounted as much as the HD1 current is. This could result in a $1000 price difference! www.buydig.com is selling the HD1 for $2500 out the door, including shippings. If I could find a HD10 anywhere, I don't think it would be close to that price, and I am not going to buy either if the editor doesn't work! I know there is a plug in for Preimere, but that costs $1200! This is getting expensive....

Premiere 6.5 can handle high defintion resolutions, yet it can't handle *.m2t files directly. Many uses have tried uncompressing the m2t data, then editing uncompressed AVIs in the VFW (Video For Window) mode under Premiere. This does work but the data size is huge (55MBytes per second) and the editing is very slow. Check out www.cineform.com if you are looking for a commercial solution for real-time HD editing under Premiere that solves these issues.

Thanks David.
I am not able to justify $1200 + price of AP 6.5 in order to edit at this time.

I have placed a call with JVC Professional Support Hotline, at (800) 582-5825(2). Expect to hear back Monday.

I'll try starting my editing project over from scatch with the current editor and just remember to save a new copy of the project name every 10 minutes or so. If this technique works then okay, if not, then I'm be very upset with JVC.

Sasha

Re: HD10
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Marc Stayman : Heath,

You said I should buy the HD10 but, correct me if I am wrong, the HD10 will not alleviate the problems with the editing software, right?


No, but it's a better camera, apparently.

heath

1st Editing Project
 

Editor Limitation or at least I cannot figure out how:
1. Cannot import pictures, .jpg.
2. Cannot play on timeline a single shot, say 1 frame, over an extended time, say 2 seconds. (Lamn!)
3. The bin has no multi-select feature!!!
4. Timeline has no multi-select feature!!!

Summary: Plan on buying a different editor with this camera.

Just my opinion.

Sasha

I''m not a Final Cut Pro user so I'm hoping the proprietary software that comes with the camera will suffice. However, I don't understand some of the terms you're using. What do you mean when you say there's no multi-select feature on the timeline or bin? I currently use an NLE called ScreenPlay and that's not a term I've heard before. And when you say you can't extend a frame over a few seconds interval, do you mean there's no way to freeze a frame? How many tracks of audio are there? Is it a basic drag and drop interface? Does it offer both timeline and storyboard editing? Like I say, I'm hoping this will work for all my editing needs. Thanks....lynne

We may have jumped the gun with this camera, as there is NOTHING out there good (and/or affordable) to edit with this thing.

heath

Hello Lynne,
Sorry about the non-industry standard terminolory but I come from a software background and not a video production background.

3 Years ago I owned and used a product called SpeedRazer. Though the software crashed every 60 minutes, it was a 'real' editor.

What I mean by 'multi-select' is that say you have multiple clips in the bin, and you want to more or arrange them in the bin in some fashion that puts like clips together. You have to drag each clip by itself...you cannot select say 4 clips and move all 4 clips at once to another location in the bin. Same on the Timeline. Check this out: Say you got 4 clips on the Timeline, one right after the other, then you want to insert a new clip between clips 1 & 2. You have to first move clip 4 down the timeline, then move clip 3, then move clip 2. Totally unacceptable!

Freeze a frame: Yes. Say you have 30 frames (say normally 1 second) and you want to say stretch the 30 frame clip to be played for 1.5 seconds. No luck. Also, cannot insert .jpg files. LAME!

Tracks: 2. Any the FX transitions? Lamn. Just a few basic transitions.

Is there anyone out there that is enjoying this editor? Let's see. Dropped or missing footage using HD Capture and basically a bare bone Editor with the only other editor choice being Adobe Premier 6.5 ($700) and Ciniform ($1200) which is still not available. 2K!!Disapointing. This is becoming an expensive hobby.

Hey, anyone out there want to rent my camera and use my 6k pc + 2k software? I'm going to have to start earning some $ to pay for this new hobby!

Question: Why are the trade magazines not covering the inadequate software options out there for HDTV? What a shame.

Sasha

I think the basic approach everyone is going to have to take on editing footage from the HD10 is one of PATIENCE. Yes it does suck that there is no software currently available, however, I think we all knew (or should have known) what we were getting into. After all we all decided to sign on to a new format thus making us "early adopters" and that means we get some of the benefits early, but we also have to wait for the rest of the world to catch up. The bottom line is it is going to take the software programmers a little time to catch up with the new technology. This doesn't mean that there won't ever be reasonably priced software available, it just means that the camera and format are both barely two months old and it is going to take some time for the software to be rewritten to incorporate this new format.

Perhaps this new "pixlet" that is included with OS X 10.3 will be the solution and allow us to edit with FCP, or perhaps some other NLE will emerge as the best HDV editing tool. But be assured that with both Sony and Canon signing on to the HDV format there will be software made and it will be possible to edit HDV with a "normal" computer. Maybe we'll be editing in a couple of months, or maybe in a 6 months to year, but it will happen.

In the mean time I cannot stress enough to just try to demonstrate patience. There is nothing we can do to speed up this process of software development.

On the other hand, perhaps using this oversimplified and clunky MPEG Edit Studio Pro LE will teach us all a lesson in editing. Maybe because it is so cumbersome it will train us to think long and hard before each cut, rather than just slapping stuff together and "frame f*cking" it to death. After all, not even ten years ago there were hollywood editors that were cutting on flatbeds rather than Avids, and that involves physically cutting and taping, and I know from experience that that is a much longer process than using Studio Pro LE.

Don't get me wrong here, I would take FCP or just about any other NLE over Studio Pro LE in a second, but for now that is not an option so I'm trying not to worry about it. Instead, I'm trying to look at what Studio Pro LE can do and what I see are the tools necessary for editing. No you can't composite with it or do any effects, but you can EDIT. Personally, I'm taking it all as a challenge. If I wanted easy editing, compositing, and effects I would have bought a DV camera, but I chose a camera that has an amazing picture and the trade off for that is that there are many challenges in post. Hopefully it will make me take a more thoughtful approach in preproduction and production and in turn make me a better filmmaker.

Okay, this post is way past too long, so I'll climb off my soapbox now.

Brad

Well, the only thing that I can say is that I have grown to actually like the images of this JVC HD cam, but if they don’t sort out their software editing problems soon, I wont be buying one. Can MPEG Edit Studio Pro LE at least handle basic cuts, fades, and dissolves for the 720p footage?

In my opinion, it does do the basics. And, in fact, it doesn't crash. Very solid software foundation just lacks bells and whistles.

Please disregard last post!

This morning I opened the Editor and opened the my current project and was unable to save a copy of the current project.

History:
Started project 3 days ago. As I worked with the Editor I performed a File, Save As every time I completed a little more of the project. Over 2 days I saved a total of 17 different projects.

This morning I went to work on version 17, but when I went to Save the last few changes, I got this unintelligent error message again:

????? 'spespele.exe' ????? 0040BED5 ????? 00000213 ?????????????????.

So, I went back to version 16 of the project. Still no luck. Same error message. Continued process of opening older versions and trying to save. No luck until I got back to version 6. Version 6-1 open and can be saved.
So, in essence, approximately 70% of my work was lost. Reboot PC and try to reopen. No Luck. FYI: I have a new 3.0something gigahertz DELL PC and have had zero problems with it during the 2 months I've owned it.

The software problem appears to be a corrupt project file, because I can start a new project, import all the clips into the new project, and edit but for just how long until the project corrupts again is the question.

I would say that this is an opportunity for JVC to show what kind of support they offer.

I'm hoping to get a call back from JVC technical support.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Is anyone able to use this editor? If not then what editor are you having success with?

Sasha

i just do editing the old way, you just need hard drive space. uncompress the footage to avi (use the huffy compression and its half the file size) and edit in your favorite editing software.....wallah....just buy a big firewire drive to go with it or something.

I wonder if the uncompressed footage can be used with Magic Bullet...

Thanks Joe. What program do you use to convert the footage to avi? What 'firewire drive' do you recommend?

What would be wrong with exporting from the JVC camera the footage in .dv format then edit with favorite editor? Decreased resolution?

i use HDTVtoMPEG2, then dvd2avi, then tmpeg to make uncompressed (well, huffy yuv) avis at 854 x 480 resolution....since my output will be 720x480 anamorphic anyway, but its still 1:1.

i dont export to dv compression because i dont want any quality loss if possible and with a spare drive ive got room. pluse as standard avi i can take it into premiere and after effects which i love so dearly....or final cut pro if i used a mac, hah. any fast firewire drive should do, i use a seagate 7200 rpm drive....works great.

Thanks very much Joe. I see that your use 3 different programs:
1) HDTVtoMPEG2
http://www.midwinter.com/~bcooley/
2) dvd2avi
http://arbor.ee.ntu.edu.tw/~jackei/dvd2avi/
3) tmpeg
http://www.tmpgenc.com/

Is that correct?

I'm very new to this - esspecially to the format conversion process your are describing so I'll start with the first software package and see if I can figure it out.

Thanks!

Sasha

basically, hdtvtompeg2 is for converting the transport stream to a valid mpeg file that dvd2avi (not the hd version) can read. then you load that mpg in dvd2avi, and it creates a .d2v that tmpeg can then read and allow you to do easy adjustments on and output to an avi file. you can also use something called avisynth but its command line from text files, and not necesary.

Joe,

How did you get hdtvtompeg2 to accept the m2t files? It seems to crash the program when you try to open the jvc files.

Thanks

I'm on a PC btw.

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : Joe,

How did you get hdtvtompeg2 to accept the m2t files? It seems to crash the program when you try to open the jvc files.

Thanks

I'm on a PC btw. -->>>

make sure you are using version 109 b or higher. i had the same problem from an old version. now im using 109b and it works great.

also, i forgot to mention how im converting audio. i just output it to an mpeg audio file using jvcs nle and then convert to wav (using their decoder as well) tho i dont think its necesary and then i add it back to the .d2v file in tmpeg, i hadnt been doing anything with audio (necesary audio anyway) until now, so i forgot to mention that whole step.

I can only find 1.07.

Where did u find 1.09b?

Thanks

Hi, as I've posted before, I think if people want to do simple editing, they should take a look at the new Womble editor, which edits the HD1OU footage in it's native format, and only costs $120. I tried it briefly and it seemed to do a good job and be much more reliable than the MPEG studio software that came with the camera. It also ran well on my slow (800mhz) PC. You can find it at www.womble.com

Hello Paul and thanks for the advice. I downloaded the demo of the Womble editor, yet it appears that the demo will not allow you to import (.m2t) files. You must buy the full version. I've got an email into tech support to confirm.

I downloaded Womble and have the same problem. I played a bit with an MPG file but I'm not going to the trouble of learning to use it with files I don't want to edit. From what I can tell it looks very basic, maybe no better than MPEG Edit Studio Pro. If this program were getting really good reviews from several users I might be tempted. They need a demo version of the full program.

I just finished editing my first short project with MPEG Edit Studio Pro LE. I had no problems with crashes or such...

I used simple cuts (no fades or wipes) with an overlaid soundtrack on track 2. Does anyone know of a simpler way of making this work besides individually mixing the audio on each clip? Is there a way to just turn off the audio of track 1 for an extended segment, and replace it with audio from track 2?

Mixing the audio for each clip introduces a bit of audio noise between clips (a twinge of static). I was disappointed by the audio, but other than that, everything seemed pretty simple and stable.

Hello Michael,
I'm trying to get an idea of why my project errors when I try to save it and I'm thinking it has something to do with the amount of clips in the bin or on the timeline, however I've tried removing all the clips out of the bin and off the timeline but it made no difference.

Do you mind answering a few questions about your project?
1. How many clips are in the bin?
2. What is the estimated total run time of all the clips in the bin if put together?
3. How many clips are in the Timeline?
4. What is the run time of clips on the Timeline?

Thanks,
Sasha

Has anyone tried editing HD10U footage using Vegas 4? I'm just curious because I'm looking into buying the camera and have really gotten comfortable with Vegas. I was able to import some of those downloadable M2T files and cut them together with almost no problems (the Paul Mogg ones and the Las Vegas ones), though I did notice they got grainy pretty fast once I started fooling around with colour correction.

You just hit on the main problem with MPEG editing. There is a lot of loss in the rendering stages if you attempt to remain in the MPEG domain during editing. Users decoding to HUFFYUV or the CineForm codec don't have this issue. If you intend to any layers or much color correction, it would be best in you convert out of such a lossy format. However, simple editing projects that only have cuts and dissolves don't suffer as badly, both in rendering time and quality losses. It really depends of the types of production your involved in.

actually, i still have the issue and im using huffy avis. the problem is in the footage captured by the camera itself...perhaps the mpeg compression. im using revision smoothkit, if you look at the chroma (color) alone, you can see there is large noise, 3 or 4 pixels across, it becomes very obvious after color correction. however, the luma noise is almost non-existant.

...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie.

Did we jump too soon on this? I can't even edit and therefore can't make any money. Hmph...

heath

i dont think so, the camera still offers what i want, and im used to having to find comprimises and solutions to problems that wouldnt exist if i had 100,000 dollars to spend on equipment....which i dont. so its time vs money

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : i dont think so, the camera still offers what i want, and im used to having to find comprimises and solutions to problems that wouldnt exist if i had 100,000 dollars to spend on equipment....which i dont. so its time vs money -->>>

Probably. But I'll be happy when we can edit efficiently!

heath

Shasha,

I had over 120 clips in the bin. The total runtime was around 50 minutes in the bin. 80+ clips made it into the timeline with a total runtime of 12+ minutes.

It was a small project that took hardly anytime at all.

Anyways, after I finished, I decided to compare it with some DV and Hi8 projects I still had on my harddrive.

The difference between HD and DV is FAR greater than DV vs. Hi8. Back to back comparisons on my computer monitor confirmed this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Heath, suck it up. You cant doubt your purchase everytime someone finds another problem. Work around it. There is always a way.

<<<--
...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie. -->>>

I'd love to see that. Anything I shoot will be heavy on colour correction and effects, and will most likely have some green screen work, so I have a feeling the HD10 may not be the camera for me. When I first heard that it was MPEG2, I wrote it off, but after seeing some footage I really thought it might be worth another look.

<<<-- Originally posted by Elvis Deane : <<<--
...ill post pictures of the chroma noise later today. time to shoot a movie. -->>>

I'd love to see that. Anything I shoot will be heavy on colour correction and effects, and will most likely have some green screen work, so I have a feeling the HD10 may not be the camera for me. When I first heard that it was MPEG2, I wrote it off, but after seeing some footage I really thought it might be worth another look. -->>>

Elvis,

All the HDV cameras (except Panasonic because I don't think they're on the the bandwagon officially or at all) coming out will be based on MPEG2. I don't have a link to where that press release is we all saw, but it may be at jvc.com so check there.

heath

Hello Michael Hyun,

Thanks for the info. I would say both our projects are similiar in complexity as I had 175 clips, totally 80 minutes but only about 20 clips make it to the Timeline of a total length of 2 minutes, before I could no longer save my project file.

The good news is that while I try to find a way around this problem within the Editor, I'm getter really fast rebuilding the project. :-)

I'll try rebuilding the project again on either a different hard drive or a different PC to rule out hardware issues.

Sasha

<<<-- Originally posted by Sasha Froyland : Hello Michael Hyun,

Thanks for the info. I would say both our projects are similiar in complexity as I had 175 clips, totally 80 minutes but only about 20 clips make it to the Timeline of a total length of 2 minutes, before I could no longer save my project file.

The good news is that while I try to find a way around this problem within the Editor, I'm getter really fast rebuilding the project. :-)

I'll try rebuilding the project again on either a different hard drive or a different PC to rule out hardware issues.

Sasha -->>>

All I can say is, and I think I speak for everyone here:

AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

heath