From what I'm seeing here...portability is not an option. at DVinfo.net

Tyler Wentzel · February 26th, 2009, 12:59 PM

Hey all,

It's looking like portable HD editing on a budget is a no-go. In other words, video from the JVC GY-HD110 in my case, is just too much for a little laptop to handle unless it happens to be quad-core. Am I correct in my thinking here? And it appears as though i7 is all the rage as well. If it's fast, I think I can make the sacrifice of portability, but I just wanted to make sure. I'm a young guy who's not yet left "the nest" and was hoping to have an easy-to-carry-along computer for editing on-the-go or on-location...but I suppose I can just start up a studio and stay stationary ;).

Thanks guys,

Tyler

Thane Brooker · February 26th, 2009, 04:56 PM

I edit on a mid-range laptop quite well using DV files as proxies, and then replacing the DV files with the HD files when I'm ready for the final render.

This post may be of interest. It describes a workflow for Canon 5D HD files using Premiere Pro CS4, but it should be adaptable for most other formats/NLEs.

If you're on a budget this could be a good workaround. You could store the HD files on a large removable USB drive (doesn't need to be fast), and do the initial conversions to DV over night. You would only need the DV files on your laptop while you edited, so you wouldn't need much laptop disk space. Then, when you were ready to render the final output, render from the full HD files on the USB drive.

Tyler Wentzel · February 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Hmm...interesting...Thank you Thane for your advice!

Tyler Wentzel · February 26th, 2009, 06:28 PM

So, say I wanted to buy a really sweet desktop PC that was the ultimate HD editing machine?...for a good price? What would I do? Customize it myself, I suppose. But where would I start?

Also, Sony has an FW Viao that you can add a 2.93 Ghz processor to and 4GB RAM; would that be sufficient for HD editing?

Thanks.

Mike Barber · February 27th, 2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler Wentzel

So, say I wanted to buy a really sweet desktop PC that was the ultimate HD editing machine?...for a good price? What would I do? Customize it myself, I suppose. But where would I start?

No. If you wanted "a really sweet desktop PC that was the ultimate HD editing machine" you would go through a vendor that specializes in building such machines. They have experience building these machines and know what is compatible and plays nicely with what; they know what they are doing.

"Sweet" and "ultimate" are two things that do not come "cheap", which is what people generally mean by "for a good price."

Best place for you to start is to come up with your budget; a realistic budget. Start with the cost of the NLE license, then add the cost of the minimum specs, then see what room you have to bump the specs up to recommended specs or beyond. Expect to be spending in the thousands.

Mike Barber · February 27th, 2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler Wentzel

Also, Sony has an FW Viao that you can add a 2.93 Ghz processor to and 4GB RAM; would that be sufficient for HD editing?

What kind of HD do you expect to be editing? HDV? AVCHD? DVCPROHD? DNxHD? Uncompressed 8- or 10-bit?

What NLE will you be using? Avid? Premier? Vegas?

Each "flavour" of HD and each NLE come with different technical requirements.

Tyler Wentzel · February 27th, 2009, 10:31 PM

I am planning on using HDV from the JVC GY-HD110U, with Sony Vegas Pro 8 (which I already own, so that helps cut costs). I've heard that AVCHD is a bearcat (extremely time-consuming to work with), so I'm staying away from that for the time being. The recommended processor for HDV with Vegas is 2.8 Ghz (according to the software box), so that's why I figured I may be in the clear by purchasing that customized Viao FW, for approximately $1699.

It would be Core 2 Duo, 2.93 Ghz (T9800) processor, Vista Home Premium 64-bit, 4 GB DDR2-SDRAM, 320 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive (7200rpm), and an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 graphics card with 512 MB vRAM, all topped off with a 16.4" FullHD screen (1080p) for the "ultimate editing experience." It's $1729.99 without shipping and handling. Now I know that I could get a far better PC quad-core for a maximum of $1700...so, I guess that's where I hit the crossroads. Which way do I go?

Mike Barber · February 27th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyler Wentzel

Which way do I go?

Let me ask you this: is portability really a necessity? Why do you need to edit on location?

I guess another way to look at it is this: do you want to be an editor or a camera guy who will able to do some editing? While being a camera operator and being an editor are not mutually exclusive (case in point: most of the people on this forum, myself included) but I would argue — and this is admittedly a slightly glib way of putting it — that most people are truly one more than the other. Speaking for myself, I am much more an editor than a camera op so portability was never an issue — I went for the stationary powerhouse. Laptops are not real hardcore edit machines. They can often do the job, but they do not have the same power or expandability or flexibility as a desktop workstation.

In my gut, I think I know which way you are leaning, but it's not my place to make the decision for you, and I'm not going to try to suggest or influence you one way or the other. All I can say is what I already have. Either way you choose to go, you'll be fine as long as the minimum specs are covered (better is always, well, better).

BTW, have you by chance factored in the cost of a deck? You don't want to be wearing out tape transport on that camera! Ah, there's always more gear to buy...

Dave Blackhurst · February 28th, 2009, 06:41 PM

Far more bang for the buck with a desktop, and AFAIK, it's pretty tough to find a quad core laptop, which gets into "sweet" territory... and AVCHD. You can always transcode, but that's another kettle of fish and takes time as well as horsepower. I prefer to edit native and upgrade the computer to keep up... Plus I like multiple monitors for editing. But it would be nice to have a laptop that would do it too, so I understand where you're coming from.

The nice thing is hardware is always getting faster, so time will always do the trick if you're patient!

Philip Gioja · February 28th, 2009, 09:25 PM

Oops - double post. Sorry (-:

Philip Gioja · February 28th, 2009, 09:26 PM

You might consider a MacBookPro - they are pretty solid. I do all my video editing on it, as well as take it along for client presentations. I hook it up to an apple cinema monitor when I'm editing. Go for the refurbished or slightly older generation to save a bit. Ebay computers have always scared me though (-: So be careful.

I might have paid around $2700 or something for my laptop and screen? Not real sure - it was a while ago and built into the project I was doing at the time. FWIW, I've tested editing on our office iMac and it was able to keep up fairly well on that too, in case my laptop ever goes down. Might be an option - definitely less expensive than the laptop.

Here's a couple photos of my setup: http://www.centerstreetproductions.c...tudioJPG04.jpg

http://www.centerstreetproductions.c...tudioJPG06.jpg

I use a Canon HV20 to capture, and G-Raid external hard drives. You could do cheaper than the G-Raids, but my Lacie drives all overheated and died over time - just have one of those left out of three originally. I feel like the G-Raids cool better.

I edit HDV on it all day long and have had no trouble at all. For a deck, just get a small (used) camcorder that plays the format you're shooting in, don't get the heavy duty pro playback decks if you are shooting to tape. Usually you can buy 5 or 6 of those for the price of the playback decks.

Mike Barber · February 28th, 2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Gioja

You might consider a MacBookPro - they are pretty solid

Alas, the lad is using Vegas, which is PC only IIRC.

Quote:

You could do cheaper than the G-Raids, but my Lacie drives all overheated and died over time

Seems like most people I know using LaCie have that issue. I stay away. Considering a G-Raid or WD MyBook Studio II Edition myself.

Bryan Daugherty · February 28th, 2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Barber

"Sweet" and "ultimate" are two things that do not come "cheap", which is what people generally mean by "for a good price."

Best place for you to start is to come up with your budget; a realistic budget. Start with the cost of the NLE license, then add the cost of the minimum specs, then see what room you have to bump the specs up to recommended specs or beyond. Expect to be spending in the thousands.

Good advice Mike, but I would caution against designing a system for minimum specs for HDV editing, especially in Vegas. Start at the recommended and go a little beyond or one upgrade could make your system obsolete. "Sweet" and "ultimate" probably have more to do with the fact that as Tyler mentioned he is in the nest still. You can build a "sweet" custom computer yourself but it will not be the ultimate...most ultimate systems start around $20k and have much more robust programs then Vegas running on them. If you have the $$ i would recommend getting or building the "sweet" desktop for your primary editing and invest in the laptop later for convenience/portability. With most PC laptops you are not going to get the power/$$ to keep you editing happily, of course if you have the $$ you could go the Macbook Pro option listed before and Vegas Pro 8 will work in bootcamp and parallels from what I hear from Mac users on the Vegas board...

When I built my desktop editing PC (last year) it cost me around $1400, to get the same features in an HP or Dell station would have cost me over $2200, and until the i7 came out i thought it was pretty sweet...it actually still is I just have an itchy upgrade finger...

Edit: I use Lacie externals almost exclusively and have had very few issues. So user experience may vary...

Mike Barber · March 1st, 2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty

Good advice Mike, but I would caution against designing a system for minimum specs for HDV editing, especially in Vegas. Start at the recommended and go a little beyond

Very true. I just meant to look at the bare minimum as a base to start and then examine how he can afford to go beyond that. If he can only afford the minimum, then he'll be ok for a time (not great, but ok); but if he can't afford even that, then he's SOL.

Bryan Daugherty · March 1st, 2009, 03:00 PM

I guess i was thinking along the lines that, in my experience, the minimum system requirements for most software in a real world situation result in a lot of issues. Slow load times, crashes, and overall poor performance. I would always shoot for the recommended system requirements as the true minimum and if you can't afford that, save some more. No need to spend on a system that is useless when if you hold out a little longer you can get something you can work with. That said, he did mention that he already has Vegas Pro 8 and if it is running on the system Tyler has now, then build from there.

And as far as the OP's question, I would recommend that your main edit computer be either a desktop or a Macbook Pro. While I can't imagine editing on a laptop as a primary system, i know quite a few Macbook Pro users who use their macbook pro as everything, in conjunction with massive external displays and wireless peripherals, mind you. But from where I sit, I would rather spend all that money on a sweet desktop and an adequate laptop for occasional field use...

February 26th, 2009, 12:59 PM	#1
Tyler Wentzel Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 31	From what I'm seeing here...portability is not an option. Hey all, It's looking like portable HD editing on a budget is a no-go. In other words, video from the JVC GY-HD110 in my case, is just too much for a little laptop to handle unless it happens to be quad-core. Am I correct in my thinking here? And it appears as though i7 is all the rage as well. If it's fast, I think I can make the sacrifice of portability, but I just wanted to make sure. I'm a young guy who's not yet left "the nest" and was hoping to have an easy-to-carry-along computer for editing on-the-go or on-location...but I suppose I can just start up a studio and stay stationary ;). Thanks guys, Tyler

February 26th, 2009, 04:56 PM	#2
Thane Brooker Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 53	I edit on a mid-range laptop quite well using DV files as proxies, and then replacing the DV files with the HD files when I'm ready for the final render. This post may be of interest. It describes a workflow for Canon 5D HD files using Premiere Pro CS4, but it should be adaptable for most other formats/NLEs. If you're on a budget this could be a good workaround. You could store the HD files on a large removable USB drive (doesn't need to be fast), and do the initial conversions to DV over night. You would only need the DV files on your laptop while you edited, so you wouldn't need much laptop disk space. Then, when you were ready to render the final output, render from the full HD files on the USB drive. __________________ Thane Brooker 8Networks - IT Specialists

March 1st, 2009, 03:00 PM	#15
Bryan Daugherty Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lexington, Ky - USA Posts: 552	I guess i was thinking along the lines that, in my experience, the minimum system requirements for most software in a real world situation result in a lot of issues. Slow load times, crashes, and overall poor performance. I would always shoot for the recommended system requirements as the true minimum and if you can't afford that, save some more. No need to spend on a system that is useless when if you hold out a little longer you can get something you can work with. That said, he did mention that he already has Vegas Pro 8 and if it is running on the system Tyler has now, then build from there. And as far as the OP's question, I would recommend that your main edit computer be either a desktop or a Macbook Pro. While I can't imagine editing on a laptop as a primary system, i know quite a few Macbook Pro users who use their macbook pro as everything, in conjunction with massive external displays and wireless peripherals, mind you. But from where I sit, I would rather spend all that money on a sweet desktop and an adequate laptop for occasional field use... __________________ 3x-HD1000u - Ikan 8000HD- custom i7 PC - Vegas Pro 13 and 11 64 bit - Premiere Pro CS4 - and a whole mess of other equipment...

February 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM	#3
Tyler Wentzel Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 31	Hmm...interesting...Thank you Thane for your advice!

February 26th, 2009, 06:28 PM	#4
Tyler Wentzel Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 31	So, say I wanted to buy a really sweet desktop PC that was the ultimate HD editing machine?...for a good price? What would I do? Customize it myself, I suppose. But where would I start? Also, Sony has an FW Viao that you can add a 2.93 Ghz processor to and 4GB RAM; would that be sufficient for HD editing? Thanks.

February 27th, 2009, 10:31 PM	#7
Tyler Wentzel Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 31	I am planning on using HDV from the JVC GY-HD110U, with Sony Vegas Pro 8 (which I already own, so that helps cut costs). I've heard that AVCHD is a bearcat (extremely time-consuming to work with), so I'm staying away from that for the time being. The recommended processor for HDV with Vegas is 2.8 Ghz (according to the software box), so that's why I figured I may be in the clear by purchasing that customized Viao FW, for approximately $1699. It would be Core 2 Duo, 2.93 Ghz (T9800) processor, Vista Home Premium 64-bit, 4 GB DDR2-SDRAM, 320 GB SATA Hard Disk Drive (7200rpm), and an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 graphics card with 512 MB vRAM, all topped off with a 16.4" FullHD screen (1080p) for the "ultimate editing experience." It's $1729.99 without shipping and handling. Now I know that I could get a far better PC quad-core for a maximum of $1700...so, I guess that's where I hit the crossroads. Which way do I go?

February 28th, 2009, 06:41 PM	#9
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Far more bang for the buck with a desktop, and AFAIK, it's pretty tough to find a quad core laptop, which gets into "sweet" territory... and AVCHD. You can always transcode, but that's another kettle of fish and takes time as well as horsepower. I prefer to edit native and upgrade the computer to keep up... Plus I like multiple monitors for editing. But it would be nice to have a laptop that would do it too, so I understand where you're coming from. The nice thing is hardware is always getting faster, so time will always do the trick if you're patient!

February 28th, 2009, 09:25 PM	#10
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	Oops - double post. Sorry (-:

February 28th, 2009, 09:26 PM	#11
Philip Gioja Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Piper City, IL Posts: 350	You might consider a MacBookPro - they are pretty solid. I do all my video editing on it, as well as take it along for client presentations. I hook it up to an apple cinema monitor when I'm editing. Go for the refurbished or slightly older generation to save a bit. Ebay computers have always scared me though (-: So be careful. I might have paid around $2700 or something for my laptop and screen? Not real sure - it was a while ago and built into the project I was doing at the time. FWIW, I've tested editing on our office iMac and it was able to keep up fairly well on that too, in case my laptop ever goes down. Might be an option - definitely less expensive than the laptop. Here's a couple photos of my setup: http://www.centerstreetproductions.c...tudioJPG04.jpg http://www.centerstreetproductions.c...tudioJPG06.jpg I use a Canon HV20 to capture, and G-Raid external hard drives. You could do cheaper than the G-Raids, but my Lacie drives all overheated and died over time - just have one of those left out of three originally. I feel like the G-Raids cool better. I edit HDV on it all day long and have had no trouble at all. For a deck, just get a small (used) camcorder that plays the format you're shooting in, don't get the heavy duty pro playback decks if you are shooting to tape. Usually you can buy 5 or 6 of those for the price of the playback decks.