Mac Laptop for HDV at DVinfo.net

Alex Horvath · February 2nd, 2006, 11:31 AM

Coming from the pc world, please forgive my ignorance...but want to start a smooth apple integration...

what I want to do:

Capturing HDV via firewire, a rough cut, some titels and effects with aftereffects, adding music and finally playing out the timeline via FCP to a projector...this should happen during an afternoon...a few days later I would bring the Laptop in the studio and load the rawfootage to my HP9300 quad and finalize the project....
Would this work, any experiences?
Can anyone recommend a laptop which fits the needs?
Type, RAM, Prozessor and whatever...
Has anyone experience with the new Dual Intel MacBookPro?

Any advice would be much appreciated

alex

Ben De Rydt · February 3rd, 2006, 04:05 AM

Be advised that you won't get anything remotely resembling a smooth workflow if you want to go from Mac to PC (or vice versa).

That said, it doesn't make any sense to buy an Apple laptop other than the MacBook Pro. The G4's are way behind in performance. Final Cut Pro does not run on the MacBook Pro at the moment, but it will soon.

Jemore Santos · February 3rd, 2006, 05:48 AM

I run the G4 1.67 and it works fine, I even use after effects and motion on it, I added another gig of ram so it takes me to 1.5gig. Ram helps it but if you want pure render speed then go macbook pro but I would wonder how it would go in universal code.

Jemore Santos · February 3rd, 2006, 05:48 AM

I run the G4 1.67 and it works fine, I even use after effects and motion on it, I added another gig of ram so it takes me to 1.5gig. Ram helps it but if you want pure render speed then go macbook pro but I would wonder how it would go in universal code.

Hubert Hofer · February 18th, 2006, 06:32 PM

I don't believe it's possible to be more ignorant about hdv editing than I am but could someone please enlighten me on this. when I recently found out about the new applemac pro I though that finally there is a portable editing facility. then, my knowledgeable computer friend says that it was still not sufficient enough a computer for hdv.
I want to buy an hdv capable laptop/notebook for use on my boat. if this new applemac pro can't do it then what can ???????

Vincent Rozenberg · February 18th, 2006, 06:50 PM

If Apple's Final Cut Pro is fully compatible with the new Intel processor (which is not at this moment, think NAB) then yes, you've got a powerful tool and definitely good enough for HDV. On the other hand, and that's maybe what your friend is meaning, you can not hook up a HD in-out card like a Kona or blackmagic one to this machine, so previewing on a external monitor is not an option. If you want this you need a desktop at the moment.

William Hohauser · February 18th, 2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hubert Hofer

I don't believe it's possible to be more ignorant about hdv editing than I am but could someone please enlighten me on this. when I recently found out about the new applemac pro I though that finally there is a portable editing facility. then, my knowledgeable computer friend says that it was still not sufficient enough a computer for hdv.
I want to buy an hdv capable laptop/notebook for use on my boat. if this new applemac pro can't do it then what can ???????

No laptop can at the moment. HDTV (not HDV) requires more data bandwidth then is possible with a laptop. You would need an external RAID card and/or an HD video card. These options are usually only available with desktop systems. There might be a workaround where you could convert the HDV files into an DVCProHD codec but that requires a RAID setup for sure. Maybe someone can take this idea forward.

One benefit of HDV (and a drawback) is that the bandwidth is equal or less than regular standard def DV. This means that a laptop, the MacBook or the G4 laptops, can ingest and work with HD video without a problem. There are two drawbacks to this method. Due to the nature of HDV, it can't be played as you edit on an external monitor like DV can. You can only use the laptop's screen to play and edit the footage. The second drawback is that any effect or filter you apply will take a long time to render. How long depends on the computer but there are no real-time effects like you can get with DV footage. Here a MacBook would have an advantage as it would render everthing faster.

The finished project would also have to be prepared by the program before you record it back to HDV tape.

One way to watch the edit is to export a DV version and play that back on an external monitor. How fast the file takes to render depends on the computer.

Kevin Shaw · February 19th, 2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser

Due to the nature of HDV, it can't be played as you edit on an external monitor like DV can. You can only use the laptop's screen to play and edit the footage. The second drawback is that any effect or filter you apply will take a long time to render. How long depends on the computer but there are no real-time effects like you can get with DV footage.

I haven't tried it yet, but in theory you might be able to get real-time preview from an HDV timeline on a laptop using a DVI connection to an HDTV. I've done this from my desktop system using an ATI video card to display the video overlay window via component connections, and while the quality wasn't great it did work.

As far as effects or filters are concerned, I'm doing real-time HDV color correction and two-layer PIP effects in Edius Pro 3 on a dual-core computer with processing power similar to what you can now get in a laptop. Edius on a dual-core laptop should be a good HDV editing solution, and Canopus allows you to install on two computers for transfer back and forth to a desktop editing system.

Boyd Ostroff · February 19th, 2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

I haven't tried it yet, but in theory you might be able to get real-time preview from an HDV timeline on a laptop using a DVI connection to an HDTV.

FCP has a feature called "digital cinema desktop" that lets you send realtime previews to an external screen using the second port on your graphics card. This is how I edit on my dual G5 since I don't have an HD capture card for a "real" monitor. I'd expect this to also work on the new MacBooks. It can be very useful, however it doesn't show full HD quality. Perhaps new versions of FCP will be tweaked to provide a more workable solution for a laptop?

Dave Perry · February 19th, 2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Rozenberg

If Apple's Final Cut Pro is fully compatible with the new Intel processor (which is not at this moment, think NAB) then yes, you've got a powerful tool and definitely good enough for HDV. On the other hand, and that's maybe what your friend is meaning, you can not hook up a HD in-out card like a Kona or blackmagic one to this machine, so previewing on a external monitor is not an option. If you want this you need a desktop at the moment.

None of the Pro apps are Intel compatible right now but will be in March, before NAB.

However, the current Powerbooks WILL do a nice job with HDV. It's best to go ahead and get the Macbook Pro however because it's much more powerful than the PPC based Powerbooks.

You CAN also use an HDV IO with the current Powerbooks, such as the AJA Io which works over FW 400.

In my opinion, the 15" Macbook Pro is a stop gap measure. Something to get the MacIntels out into the real world. The 17" Macbook Pro is in the works right now as is an Intel Mac Mini. Both of these hold a lot of promise for future HD content management and production.

If you need HDV capabilities right now, get a 17" powerbook and max the RAM. If you need HDV capabilities realativel soon, get the current Macbook Pro and wait 'til March when a Universal FCP is released. If you can wait a little longer, get the 17" Macbook Pro.

Vincent Rozenberg · February 19th, 2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Perry

You CAN also use an HDV IO with the current Powerbooks, such as the AJA Io which works over FW 400.

The AJA Io provide you online Standard Def, no High def outputs, to be precise.

William Hohauser · February 19th, 2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

I haven't tried it yet, but in theory you might be able to get real-time preview from an HDV timeline on a laptop using a DVI connection to an HDTV. I've done this from my desktop system using an ATI video card to display the video overlay window via component connections, and while the quality wasn't great it did work.

As far as effects or filters are concerned, I'm doing real-time HDV color correction and two-layer PIP effects in Edius Pro 3 on a dual-core computer with processing power similar to what you can now get in a laptop. Edius on a dual-core laptop should be a good HDV editing solution, and Canopus allows you to install on two computers for transfer back and forth to a desktop editing system.

Is this a desktop sytem using just the computer's CPU or is there additional hardware installed? Is the real-time only on the computer monitor or is it viewable on a video monitor? I was thinking of real-time effects that could be previewed on a video monitor.

Kevin Shaw · February 19th, 2006, 10:40 PM

William: this is a dual-core desktop system with no special video acceleration card installed. I get real-time editing results on the computer monitor using HDV footage converted to the Canopus HQ editing codec, plus I can view the results in real time on my HDTV if I connect to it using the component outputs on an ATI All-in-Wonder video card. You could also buy Edius NX with the optional Expansion Kit for better real-time HD component output, and that's currently the best value available for an HDV editing solution with live HD monitoring.

February 2nd, 2006, 11:31 AM	#1
Alex Horvath Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Innsbruck,Austria Posts: 45	Mac Laptop for HDV Coming from the pc world, please forgive my ignorance...but want to start a smooth apple integration... what I want to do: Capturing HDV via firewire, a rough cut, some titels and effects with aftereffects, adding music and finally playing out the timeline via FCP to a projector...this should happen during an afternoon...a few days later I would bring the Laptop in the studio and load the rawfootage to my HP9300 quad and finalize the project.... Would this work, any experiences? Can anyone recommend a laptop which fits the needs? Type, RAM, Prozessor and whatever... Has anyone experience with the new Dual Intel MacBookPro? Any advice would be much appreciated alex

February 3rd, 2006, 04:05 AM	#2
Ben De Rydt Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 139	Be advised that you won't get anything remotely resembling a smooth workflow if you want to go from Mac to PC (or vice versa). That said, it doesn't make any sense to buy an Apple laptop other than the MacBook Pro. The G4's are way behind in performance. Final Cut Pro does not run on the MacBook Pro at the moment, but it will soon. __________________ Please keep in mind that English is not my native language.

February 3rd, 2006, 05:48 AM	#3
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	I run the G4 1.67 and it works fine, I even use after effects and motion on it, I added another gig of ram so it takes me to 1.5gig. Ram helps it but if you want pure render speed then go macbook pro but I would wonder how it would go in universal code. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

February 3rd, 2006, 05:48 AM	#4
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	I run the G4 1.67 and it works fine, I even use after effects and motion on it, I added another gig of ram so it takes me to 1.5gig. Ram helps it but if you want pure render speed then go macbook pro but I would wonder how it would go in universal code. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

February 18th, 2006, 06:32 PM	#5
Hubert Hofer Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Torres Strait - Australia Posts: 76	hdv notebooks I don't believe it's possible to be more ignorant about hdv editing than I am but could someone please enlighten me on this. when I recently found out about the new applemac pro I though that finally there is a portable editing facility. then, my knowledgeable computer friend says that it was still not sufficient enough a computer for hdv. I want to buy an hdv capable laptop/notebook for use on my boat. if this new applemac pro can't do it then what can ???????

February 18th, 2006, 06:50 PM	#6
Vincent Rozenberg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 475	If Apple's Final Cut Pro is fully compatible with the new Intel processor (which is not at this moment, think NAB) then yes, you've got a powerful tool and definitely good enough for HDV. On the other hand, and that's maybe what your friend is meaning, you can not hook up a HD in-out card like a Kona or blackmagic one to this machine, so previewing on a external monitor is not an option. If you want this you need a desktop at the moment.

February 19th, 2006, 10:40 PM	#13
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	William: this is a dual-core desktop system with no special video acceleration card installed. I get real-time editing results on the computer monitor using HDV footage converted to the Canopus HQ editing codec, plus I can view the results in real time on my HDTV if I connect to it using the component outputs on an ATI All-in-Wonder video card. You could also buy Edius NX with the optional Expansion Kit for better real-time HD component output, and that's currently the best value available for an HDV editing solution with live HD monitoring.