Ulead MF6-PLUS and HD-DVD
 

Not in stores yet, but can be downloaded if you have broadband and are patient, 550MB.

With the new version, Ulead relieved all of the complication of producing HD-DVD compatible disks on red laser media from HDV video with the inclusion of a HD-DVD burning utility.

Smart rendering eliminates re-encoding of the video so it's fast.

Import, edit, burn.

Even rewritable media like DVD+RW burned with MF6 plays back in the Toshiba HD-DVD players.

Microsoft Vista compatible.

My other notebook bit the dust, not the HDD but the CPU/motherboard itself. It's terrible what that does because even your program backups may not transfer.

For the new notebook, I had to repurchase some software, either because it was registered to the old CPU or because it's not Vista compatible. The big joke around here is, "I'm a Mac...and I'm a PC." As I say that, I'm taping a web cam around my head, Lol...

Anyway, after a few days of downtime, I'm up and running again better than ever with MF6 Plus. Some additional features include Dolby audio support. But the big one again, is the burn utility that saves time and several steps by eliminating the specific need for Nero V7.

I just insert an RW disk into the drive, erased or not, MF6 Plus quickly authors my m2t into the HD-DVD folders, erases the RW disk and burns 1080i HDV video into an HD-DVD player compatible disk in one step fast. Sweet.

Playback from a Toshiba HD-DVD player over HDMI to a 1080p monitor is as good as it gets.

Pinnacle studio 10.7 has been able to do this for quite some time now, including DD5.1 sound. In fact, it was the first editor to be able to burn a hybrid hd dvd straight from the timeline with no other software. And it works flawlessly with double layer disks... Iv'e used both programs, and IMO, pinnacle does it better.

That's good George, glad you like Pinnacle! It's great to have these tools for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray support.

Well... either way you do it, the picture comes out absolutely stunning doesn't it! It sure costs a few extra bucks to set yourself up in the HD world.... but it's well worth it.

I will say that MF6 DOES have blu ray support, which Pinnacle still lacks.

I was just following up on this and making a few comments. It doesn't sound like Pinnacle has been actually doing all this for very long, just since V10.7 from what I can tell. Also the complaint that it is a "bloated mess that re-renders everything" would be an enormous drawback.

MF has been doing the HD-DVD authoring since about mid to late 2006, and it sounds like on several important levels, it's still ahead of Pinnacle for HDV applications.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10206445

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10213004

Yes... this is very much true. I started using MF5 I think it was, to do my hd dvd's. Nobody else had the ability at the time. But back then MF was not capable of actualy burning the hybrid disk. You had to import to Nero, or Roxio. Pinnacle however was the first to put together a COMPLETE one-stop-shop package. You could capture, edit AND burn right from the timeline. Pinnacle was also the first to perfect the double layer disk burning.

And I am not at all sure what you mean by re-renders?? I do my capture/edit with Vegas 7 (better quality than either MF or Pinnacle) then I export to file as M2V/WAV... That is then imported to studio. a 50minute time line takes me about 15 minutes to render and 15 - 20 minutes to burn (depending on the speed I use). At that speed NOTHING is being re-rendered, I can assure you.

I'm not the one saying it re-renders, but the comment is wrong in any case if you are able to author 50 minutes of HDV in 15 minutes. Although the times sound a bit longer than MF6, to be fair I surmise your burn time for DL media is the more significant constraint at 2.4x, versus 8-16x for a single layer.

My observation about MF6, is that it seems to handle the authoring and burning nearly concurrently. I'll have to observe this more closely.

I was viewing rough cuts, therefore putting them on the +RW single layer rewritable media at 4x, and allowing MF6 to handle the erasure of the prior content. It went very quickly, one step beginning to end, a definite timesaver over the previous MF5. But like you, I don't use MF6 for editing, just authoring into the HD-DVD format.

Yeah... I do nothing but double layer disks now (verbatim inkjet printable 2.4x). And the same goes for studio the author/burn is almost concurrent.... well ... not really concurrent, but at least back to back. The one thing I did notice about studio though is that you have to import as m2v/wav. You can import as mpg (for example) but it does not smartrender as fast as with m2v/wav

If I remember from my MF5 days it is much the same as studio... it writes the HVDVD_TS folder THEN you have to export for the burn.... maybe that has changed in MF6 and it's like Nero with a "burn as you go" feature?

It's changed. It's one step, "burn." It goes straight into the authoring and disk preparation at almost the same time, and starts to burn before the authoring is completed, it seems. I'll look into to it more closely next time.

Just to be clear, are you saying the MF6 will author and burn HD-DVD onto a dual layer dvd-r(w)? Why do you have to import as m2v/wav rather than m2t? I've got a number of saved m2t files now and would prefer not to have to lose any quality.

Yes for the dual layer and dvd-r(w).

As to why not m2t? You *may* be able to import m2t directly. I *was* able to do that in MF5 on my other computer before it died. Perhaps MF5 was using a codec already installed by another application on that computer? In any case, my new pc with Vista and MF6 won't import m2t. But that doesn't mean you have to re-encode it with a quality loss. Womble MPEG Video Wizard will transcode the headers without rendering, so you don't lose any quality and hardly any time. For simple editing, I use Womble all the time in lieu of vegas because it's orders of magnitude faster and doesn't re-render the video except around the edit points, i.e. "smart rendering." Not to be a salesman but Womble has very smart and speedy core processing. But in any case, I have not been able to import m2t into MF6 as I could with MF5. I'll just leave it at that.

Edit: Womble has a 30 day free trial, fully functional. I've been using it for years, they have continuously updated the product for free and it is by now, robust and stable, with lots of cool features. It's not your go to application for color correcting or chroma keys but it can't be beat for simple edits, speed, transcoding, lots of audio functionality, and intuitive and non-fussy interface that lets you mix almost anything on the timeline.

Can any of these programs create a disk
(either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) that uses AVCHD or VC1 for the format on the disk?

One other question but will any of the programs support importing a 1080 24p file or 720p 24p file?

Womble can output H264 at 1920x1080 at 8000 kbps, MF6 will accept 24F, neither will encode 1080p24.

I think I gave out some wrong information about Ulead not supporting 24p. I think it might. I wasn't able to test it, but in the custom templates is a selection for progressive frames.

curious as to wether version 5 will do the same with blu-ray projects. export the files and burn to a disc and play on blu-ray players. anyone know? if so, what formats? (720p30, 24?)

I don't have BluRay burner, but I believe you can do it with version 6 now. I have version 5 and it said on the box there is support for BluRay authoring, but it was removed from the shipping version for some reason, maybe wasn't ready.

For HD-DVD, version 5 menus were glitchy, but version 6 menu structures are sweet.

In fact, I've used Ulead software for quite a while now, and it's always been buggy, but with version 6 it's very stable, everything seems to work as advertised, and it's joyously fast.

Womble setting
 

Thank you very much for the very interesting information you gave us.
May I ask you what settings do you use in Womble to get a file format accepted by MF6 ? If I set it to "Automatic", I get a new m2t file: is it necessary to create a new template in the Recorder Template manager, and with what parameters ?

Sorry if my question is silly.

Marco Durando

i tested with version 5. they both worked on the burn
blu ray on dvd-r would only play on samsung, but jittery picture and audio. crashed sony player, ps3 would not recognize it.

hd-dvd on dvd-r worked perfectly on xbox 360, played jittery with no audio on toshiba hd-a1.

did not get to test either disc on combo player.

Export to file format, "mpeg-2 Program"

1440 x 1080
29.97
25000 kbps constant bit rate
GOP Size N 15, M 3
PAR 9/16
Field Order - "No change"

My A1 plays dvd -R, +R, +RW and dual layer.

Since MF5 doesn't burn disks, the problem is likely your burning software. Try Nero 6 or 7.

With MF6+ you don't need Nero.

Burner itself can make a difference too. A good burner makes playable disks even with bad media. The only way to know is to use utility software that scans the disk surface for parity errors. Plextor is good for this. So is BenQ and NEC.

Before importing to MF6+, I use an mpeg editor called Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD. It converts the audio track to AC3 5.1 channel. Plays back perfectly with the Tosh A1 set on "bitstream."

That said, it could be your no audio problem right there...go into the A1 and change the audio to PCM.

Tom, please tell us your workflow when you shoot with the A1 in 24f to create a good HD-DVD. It would be an interesting point of view.

yeah i used roxio easy media creator 8 to burn the saved blu-ray and hd-dvd folders, burned onto sony media. I'll have to give roxio a shot.

Nothing special is required for 24F. It's exactly the same workflow as 60i.

1.) Shoot 24F
2.) Capture video to PC
3.) Import to Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD
4.) Make edits - smart fast algorithm, 100% stream copy
5.) Export MPEG-2 Program with AC3 5.1 audio, no video render
6.) Import to Ulead MF6+
7.) Author and burn to HD-DVD in usual manner

I don't color correct in post usually. Stephen Dempsey's VIVIDRGB preset is what I use. If I do need to fix something in post, I use Vegas to render the clip only, then import that into the Womble timeline.

Everybody has a workflow that's best. I am not advocating mine in lieu of yours. I'm just saying that if you have the A1 Canon modified to shoot native 24F, you don't need any extra conversion steps for HD-DVD. It goes straight in because 24F progressive frames are already packaged with pulldown flags inside of a 60i stream. So the workflow is exactly the same whether you shoot 60i or 24F, very simple.

It's so simple in fact, I can mix 60i and 24F clips on the same timeline, and upon HD-DVD playback it's a seamless, transparent switch between 60i and 24p.

Thanks Tom,

In my 25 to 24 workflow, as you know, I had to "patch" the mpeg file because when I import in Ulead a 23,97 fps file it converts it to 29,97. With a native 24f file what does Ulead say when you import it? (I guess 29,97...)

You sir, are correct, 29.97!

thanks,

now I really want 24f in my A1...

MF6-Plus & M2T
 

I've been trying MF6+ and get the message "file is inaccessible" when I try to add an m2t hdv file (1080i 60fps). I'm I going to have to convert all my files or is there a way to load them into MF6+. Someone suggested VedeoRedo on another forum, but converting all my files would take days.

MF6+ doesn't support m2t, but transcoding to mpeg-2 program does not have to entail rendering video. I don't know how VideoRedo does it, but Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD is very fast. You can do it with a command line like tool, or you can use the editor as part of the normal workflow, cut and paste clips, encode audio to AC3 5.1, and convert to mpeg-2 program in one step. The workflow is very quick, and lossless.

VideoRedo
 

Thanks for the reply.

I gave VideoRedo a try last night. It's also a very fast process and the app contains a batch builder for batch conversion so it's not as bad as I thought.

I did a test build of an HD DVD. Now I just need to find a player for my PC.

InterVideo winDVD Silver plays M2T files, but not the DVD. Any suggestions?

Well, to answer my own question, InterVideo winDVD Platinum will play the HD DVD.

please clarify
 

How exactly does one render HDV footage from a Vegas 7d timeline, for import into Ulead MF 6+?

The original footage is Canon A1 HDV 30F. My goal is to make this into an HD-DVD, on DVD-R media, using a red-laser SD DVD burner.

Is another piece of software like Womble or Video Redo, necessary to do this?

I haven't used Vegas that way. My workflow uses Vegas for color correction mainly, and only when necessary. Otherwise, Womble is much faster for cut 'n pasting of clips because it doesn't render them. Womble exports the native m2t to mpeg-2 program required by Ulead MF6+, and converts the audio to AC3 5.1 in one step.

I would color correct in Vegas, render the clip to m2t, put the rendered clip onto the Womble timeline with all the other clips, and let Womble export to mpeg-2 program and AC3 5.1 without adding another lossy slow render. The Womble exported file is immediately accepted by Ulead MF6+ without rendering.

For a 4.7gb disk, the whole process after capturing is about 20-25 minutes to a burned, HD-DVD compliant disk. The breakdown is about 10 minutes for Womble, and 10-15 minutes for MF6+ to author and burn at 16x.

Your question was how to get Vegas to render to mpeg-2 program so the file can be imported to Ulead MF6+. I'm not sure if it can, but possibly you can get Vegas to work with a custom template.

Hi Tom and everybody,
I use Vegas 6. When I encode and try to import into MF6 I always get a "file in unaccessable" message. Curiously if I send the original Cineform file that was editied in Vegas to PPro and then send it MF6, MF6 has no trouble accepting it.

I don't have the optional (expensive) Adobe Surecode 5.1, so I can't do 5.1 sound that way, so I just encode the Video and audio sepaeretly. I encode a AC3 5.1 file and import this into MF6 on the music track (no audio with the video file). Playback on the computer comes out in 5.1, but the HD-DVD discs made from MF6 are audibly only Stereo sound even though my receiver says it is getting a DTS 5.1 - which is curoius cause Vegas/DVD architect files usually say DD, not DTS.

So my questions are:

1. Why does MF6 always see Vegas Mpeg2 as "unaccessible."

2. Why does the audio not sound like 5.1 on the HD-DVD disc from MF6?

3. Why is the Audio volume so low compared to Menu background music and other DVD/HD-DVD discs ?

Thanks Everyone for any input/ideas you may have - PK

I'll try a test using Vegas to see if I can get a rendered file to import into MF6+.

The problem with Vegas is that the MainConcept mpeg encoder doesn't let you create any custom templates. It outputs straight HDV which is great for printing to tape, but useless for MF6+ which requires mpeg-2 program stream, which HDV is not.

For a workaround, you can save it as AVI using an intermediate codec with Vegas.

1.) Under File choose: Render As.
2.) Save As Video type: Video for Windows (*.avi)
3.) Template: HDV intermediate
4.) Click "Custom" button
5.) Click on the Video tab
6.) Video Format: Cineform HD codec
7.) Okay
8.) Save

Import the AVI file into MF6+, and burn to HD-DVD.
It works, although I screwed something up somewhere, had the wrong aspect ratio. Of course it's getting re-encoded.

I think you'd be better off using something like VideoRedo or Womble to losslessly transcode the Vegas HDV file to mpeg-2 PS.

If you buy Womble Mpeg edit, you also get Womble Mpeg VCR for free. Just load the m2t into Mpeg VCR and save as an mpeg 2 file and it will work fine with the Ulead program.

I agree with Laurence, except recommend if you go that route, get Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD which includes the AC3 5.1 encoder. Yes, it does 'true' 5.1 audio encodes, not just spoofed stereo sound, and it comes out that way with MF6+.

Reviewing what Paul wrote, you would lay the audio that you want in AC3 5.1 on the Womble timeline, and encode it there. The audio gets rendered, not the video so no loss is PQ. That's what you import in MF6+, already muxed by Womble rather than put the audio track on the MF6+ timeline where it may be getting screwed up for Paul.

Thanks Tom and Laurence
 

Thanks For the responses - Tom and Laurence. Tom, I seem to be able to customize the Mpeg 2 output in Vegas 6 to pretty much whatever I want - bit rate, constant/variable/2pass - with/without audio. I have tried .avi, .mpg, .m2T, .M2V etc. The strange thing is that Premiere Pro has no trouble accepting these Vegas files. I then re-render the V6 files to the same format in PPro, and MF6+ takes them - no problem. Ofcourse the extra render in PPro takes more time and degrades the quality somewhat. What is the advantage of going V6-Womble-MF6, versus V6-PPRO-MF6 ? Either way, aren't I getting an extra re-encoding?
I don't encode the audio with the Video, because in Vegas 6, there is no option to encode AC3 5.1 in the mpeg stream - only stereo. In Vegas 6 going to DVD architect, the AC3 5.1 audio is rendered as a seperate file from the Video. I can get the Video to MF6 as explained above through PPro with no audio. Then I make the AC3 5.1 file in Vegas and MF6+ takes that directly from V6 - no problem. I put it in the music track. My receiver says its getting a 5.1, but the sound is distinctly just stereo - even though I have selected 5.1 surround (L,C,R,LR,RR) in MF6 the 5.1 surround. The same audio file - used in Vegas/DVD architect has is definitely a 5.1 track.

Tom you say "The audio gets rendered, not the video so no loss is PQ" which kind of sounds like your rendering audio seperately, but then you say "already muxed by Womble rather than put the audio track on the MF6+ timeline." Sorry to be stupid, but I've heard the term "remux", but what does that mean? Audio and Video mixed togehter in the same Mpeg stream?

Thanks Guys, sorry this got so long, and I hope you can understand what I'm saying - its getting late. Have a Good Night, and Thanks Again - PK

I understand you perfectly Paul.

Basically, it's this. Womble uses "Smart Rendering," meaning that it doesn't render your video except for a few frames on either side of the edit point. Usually, if it's just simple cuts-and-joins it doesn't even have to render those. So using an example, you have a clip, you put it on the timeline, you want to cut out a segment in the middle. Womble will rejoin the remaining segments without rendering at all, so it's extremely fast, and no loss in picture quality whatsoever, no matter how many times you do it. Womble has a progress bar that tells you when something is going to be rendered. Blue means 100% stream copy. As long as the edits on the progress bar don't switch to red, there's no rendering. So when does it render? As long as you aren't mixing different frame sizes on the same timeline (which Womble does allow), about the only time it renders anything is around transistions, fades, wipes, titling, or the various filters, color, contrast, embossing etc.

So number one, it's different in that it doesn't render as much as Vegas or the others that force a complete render whenever you do anything.

Let's say you have a clip that needs color correction. Well, Womble has tools for that but Vegas is better. So you do your color correction, chroma key or whatever inside Vegas for only the portion of the clip that needs it, then you can put that rendered clip on the Womble timeline and it won't render it further. So Womble is really good for assembling footage, not as good for sophisticated effects and renders.

Womble has timelines that look like Vegas, video, audio, music, stills, etc. With Womble, you could take a video track and drop it onto the video timeline. You could take a 5.1 audio track and drop it on the music timeline. More than one, if need be. Womble will transcode (not render) a new file that muxes (combines) the video and audio elementary streams into one stream that has the video and audio. THAT's the file that you import into MF6+. You don't want MF6+ doing any rendering. Womble gets the stream into the format that MF6+ can use without putting its own rendering onto it. That makes it go fast and preserves the quality.

What I like about Womble, is I can take footage straight out of the camera, go into Womble with it, make my edits, convert the two channel camcorder stereo into AC3 5.1 (and it does this beautifully), and author it to HD-DVD with MF6+ without doing a single video render, not one. The video quality is as pristine as what you recorded on tape, only looks better via the HDMI output of the HD-DVD player compared to the component video outputs on the camcorder.

Just to make sure I've answered your questions, "remux" means you are recombining into one file separate elementary video and audio streams. With Womble, you don't have to demux them unless you want to. It includes tools for demuxing and muxing elementary streams of audio and video. Let's say you have camcorder footage with two channel stereo, and you have a 5.1 music stream you want to use for background music. You drop the camcorder footage onto one timeline, and you drop the 5.1 music onto another, then when you export Womble will combine them together into one mpg file, all in 5.1 AC3. You import that one file into MF6+ instead of separate video+audio as you are now.

It will play discrete channels of sound from all of your speakers. It leaves the 5.1 channel music alone, but splits your two channel camcorder stereo into 5.1 with front, center, rear and subwoofer. How it does this I don't know but it does do it very professionally.

Remux, or just mux...video and audio together into one mpg file.

Womble is not perfect, it has some quirks, but it's cheap, easy to use, and you can download a 30 day free trial that is 100% fully functional.

Tom (or anyone) - basic question
 

I have read this thread and it is very interesting, but I have one question. When burning your HD-DVD on a standard DVD, are you using a regular DVD burner or a HD-DVD burner ?