Thanks for the help. The BD drive is a burner.

Made some changes based on your input - let me know if this is better.


Motherboard: Asus - P5W64 WS Professional : Intel Core"2 Extreme / Core"2 Duo Ready Quad-cor

OS/Programs Drive: Western Digital - RAPTOR 740GD SATA 74G 10K

Kept everything else the same.

Also - should I upgrade the sound card?

Which is a better choice, 2 X 500GB or 3 X 320GB when it comes to raid0?

Hope you are not asking me, because I have no idea.

Haha. Anybody has any idea?
I was tinking of either raiding 2 X 500GB or 3 X 320GB. I think the chance of HDD failure is higher with 3 HDD than 2 right? Hmmm...

it is a personal choice. 3 drives stripped together will be faster than 2 but there is a greater chance of failure with 3 drives. in the past year i have had 5 hard drives fail so i ended up running a 1+0 raid. it is more expensive but there are still the benefits of stripping with the advantages of mirroring.

Just curious, why not...
 

I joined a week or two ago, just saw this thread. Happens that in June, after researching what the custom shops were building, I set aside plan to build P5B type system and built instead: Tyan s2696, Antec Titan 550, Xeon 5130 (just one to start) 2x1GB SST 667 FB-DIMM, one 160GB NCQ Barracuda system drive, two (eventually 3) 320GB data drives RAID 0, PNY Quadro FX560, Blackmagic Intensity--a really affordable system, scarcely more money than a Core 2 quad or extreme NLE with gaming GPU. And this system has turned out to be awesome, capturing from my new Canon HV20 with HDMI, w two Acer 22" I got at Best Buy for $190 each (!), and driving a cheaper HDTV with the Intensity for RT monitoring of the timeline in Premiere Pro 2.o
Why don't more people opt for these really affordable 54-bit platforms? have I missed something?
solo

I would say 2 X 500Gb. The performance will be just fine and you'll have less risk in that setup.

5 hard drive failures for personal use in one year is a sign that something is seriously wrong. If you were running several hundred drives, I could see it. You should seriously look into seeing if you are having some power issues at your location. Investment in a good UPS with AVR might help cut down on those failures.

Jon

Chris,

I just built my first system (with a lot of help and input from Jon) and I went with following drive for the operating system and program files:

WD 150GB WD1500ADFD SATA150 16MB 10,000RPM

I've dedicated the system to doing mostly NLE and multimedia work. So far I've edited a project in Studio 11 Ultimate and just recently downloaded Vegas 8 and have been tooling around with that a bit. The new system is really running smoothly, in fact it's just plain awesome. It handles the whole NLE process fantastically thus far. The OS and programs load noticeably quicker than any other systems I've had. Flight Sim (oh ya, multimedia work haha)... runs with no hiccups at high graphics settings. I'm certain that the drive has something to do with this as well.

I wanted to tie into my network wirelessly also (28 windows updates after I loaded the OS!). I added the Belkin F5D8051 Wireless N USB Network Adapter. Even though the reviews I saw were not favorable I went ahead and got it anyway. It installed in a matter of moments with no issues. I'm getting upwards of 275 Mbps with this hookup, plus you can remove it from the cradle and plug it into a usb port directly if you like. The pci cards all have antennas hanging out of them anyway. The Belkin adaptor is not only kind of slick looking and but I think it gets better reception as well.

I went with the 1 TB Hitachi instead of RAID'ing out several drives. There's room for 2 more in the Antec case I put it all in. So, I could get another drive and mirror it if I get nervous about loosing something.

Anyway, there's 2 cents from a newbie! Good luck.

RAID 0, how many drives?
 

Let me share my experience with the question of striping drives for massive, fast video storage.
As i mentioned earlier, I built a dual CPU xeon NLE. For data storage, I first had 2 x 320GB Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 SATA drives. These were RAID 0. I happened to test this array along with everything else in the system using the PassMark test suite. later, I added a drive to the array, and tested again, using several different 'strip' sizes. Turns out this does make a difference. and adding a drive (going from 2 to 3) made a big difference too.

So my opinion, based on a few experiments, is a larger number of smaller drives (up to wahtever the limit is on your condroller hardware/RAID management software).

The ESB2 controller, part of the Intel 5000x chipset, will actually add a drive to an existing RAID 0 array, while you are working--you don't even actually have to shut down. and there's a windows storage utility called 'Matrix Storage Manager' that does RAID expansion/conversion (RAID 0 to RAID 5, for example. And this identical RAID implementation is not just on the xeon chipsets. It's also a feature on the following controllers;


• Intel(R) 82801HBM Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH8M)
• Intel(R) 82801HEM Serial ATA RAID Controller (ICH8ME)
• Intel(R) 82801HEM Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH8ME)
• Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO Serial ATA RAID Controller (ICH8R)
• Intel(R) 82801HR/HH/HO Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH8R)
• Intel(R) 631xESB/632xESB SATA RAID Controller
• Intel(R) 631xESB/632xESB SATA AHCI Controller
• Intel(R) 82801GHM Serial ATA RAID Controller (ICH7MDH)
• Intel(R) 82801GBM Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH7M)
• Intel(R) 82801GR Serial ATA RAID Controller (ICH7R)
• Intel(R) 82801GR Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH7R)
• Intel(R) 82801GH Serial ATA RAID Controller (ICH7DH)
• Intel(R) 82801GH Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH7DH)
• Intel(R) 82801FR Serial ATA RAID Controller (ICH6R)
• Intel(R) 82801FR Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH6R)
• Intel(R) 82801FBM Serial ATA AHCI Controller (ICH6M)

The Intel Matrix Storage Manager consists of the following components:

• Intel Matrix Storage Manager Driver
• Intel(R) Matrix Storage Console
• Event Monitor
• Intel Matrix Storage Manager option ROM

anyone who is planning to use the hardware RAID support of current Intel chipset should read the Intel Matrix documentation, which can be found on the intel website.
solo

new system up and running
 

hi folks,

finally got the new machine running and its flying. here's the final specs:

Intel Quad Core Q6600 2.4Ghz
Antec Sonata III Silent Case w 500W Earthwatts PSU
2GB Corsair 6400 DRAM
Primary Drive 250GB Seagate Barracuda SATA II 300 7200rpm 16MB cache
2 x 500GB Seagate Barracuda SATA II 300 7200rpm 16MB cache Hard Drive set at RAID 0
NEC Optiarc AD-7170A-0S DVD burner
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3P Intel P35 Express LGA775 1333 FSB Motherboard
Gigabyte 8600GT PCI-E 256MB graphics card silent pipe HDTV/DVI/VGA

Have transferred a feature film which i'm in the middle of audio dubbing from the old PC and it's editing nicely in native HDV with previews in Good or even Best without dropping frames. I can even preview with Magic Bullet Look at Good without dropping many frames.

A few things about the build: was disappointed the Antec case didnt have a front firewire port for some reason i thought it did... it is really quiet though although the CPU fan is a noisy bugger. i'll probably invest in a quieter one - any suggestions?

Gigabyte dont provide a back plate for the extra USB ports and Firewire ports which is a bit mean - there's only 1 firewire port on the standard back plate which is annoying if you have a firewire soundcard (mine's an Alesis I/O 26) and want to plug a camera. Those USB/firewire back plates are at least £10...

Apart from that very happy with it - havent done a big render yet but hope it'll breeze through.

Tried the HDTV component output to my Samsung 42" HD LCD which actually looked pretty poor - not so noticeable when playing video but you can see terrible ghosting and softness when you're looking at the desktop. however, i connected via the VGA input of the TV which was crystal clear - who needs HDMI!

Thanks to everyone who's given advice, especially Jon, it was most helpful.

Best,

Baldwin

XP service pack 2 updates
 

just another note: ive decided to NEVER allow the new machine anywhere near the internet - a bit annoying when having to transfer latest drivers etc. from my other PC from a USB drive but i think worth it. i've therefore not ran any Windows Updates - i had to install NET framework manually for Vegas which was fine - i could have made up an Windows install CD with the updates already i guess but, question is, is it worth geting the updates anyway? i think most of them are 'security' based and since im not on the net it isnt going to be an issue. and who need windows media player 11 when there's VLC!?

baldwin

Baldwin,

I think you are wise to do manual updates and I think it's absolutely spot on about all the security stuff from Microsoft. If you're not on the internet, you won't need 'em... Funny how the internet which has turned into the "lifeblood" of computing is also the greatest weakness. Simply removing that equation from your working computer nearly makes you free from any possible harm from the outside.

In regards to the case... this is another reason why I strongly recommend the P180 or P182 from Antec. Front firewire and it's design is focused around silent operation.

As for the TV. You definately wouldn't want to run the TV-Out to the HD LCD. That would give you a horrible display. The best way to go about hooking that up should be to get a DVI-HDMI connector and use that big LCD as your secondary display. Be sure to lookup the resolution of the device and configure that exact resolution with your NVidia display properties (maybe either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 <- hopefully that one). You want that display to be showing pixel perfect and that should create a crisp tight display.

Jon

I've been thinking along those lines too - Is this what most people do?

Keep their editing computers isolated from the Internet?

I think, personally, this might be a litte bit of hyper thinking. There really is nothing inherently more dangerous on the internet than anything else in the world. I think the balance for a editing/work type machine though is to simply only hook up the machine for software updates and maybe some very simple basic web browsing and then to disconnect the system from the internet. Occasional intermittant internet use I feel is virtually completely free from risk. I think once you eliminate any email use + visiting questionable websites, it's probably safer than sex with condoms and birthcontrol pills.

Jon

Hi Jon

First off, thank you so much for sharing you wisdom on this topic, it has been such a big help.

Secondly, as a bit of time has elapsed since you began this thread I have a couple of questions that I'd love to hear your (or anyone else's) answers to:

1. Do you think it's too early in their lifespan to be investing in the Gigabyte GA-P35T-DQ6 or ASUS P5K3 Deluxe? If so, is the GA P35-DS3P still the latest, safest bet?

2. Are the DDR2 boards peaking now and is it worth getting a DDR3 mobo, even if DDR3 memory (from what I read) isn't up to the same performance standard as DDR2 yet?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

As a whole, the P35 chipset is fairly mature now and there doesn't seem to be really any problems with this chipset. I don't think, honestly, there is really that much variation between particular P35 motherboards within the same manufacturer or even across manufacturors for that matter. I particularly like the Gigabyte boards because they've been good to me in the past, but I've also had good success with MSI, Asus, Abit, etc. There happens to be a pretty good motherboard out on the market now by Abit the IP35 Pro that seems to be packed with features at a reasonable price as well.

I would stear clear of DDR3 for now. Too expensive, simply no real advantage and again, you are treading in new waters. Who's to say your favorite NLE app might not be absolutely 100% compatable with DDR3? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying I know everything created in the last 2-3 years has had DDR2 in mind. I've even heard rumblings there may be a jump to a DDR4 standard before the DDR3 one really takes place... Who knows...

Jon

Hey Baldwin, how much did the machine run you?

This would require a security program though, right? Like VET or whatever, yeah?

And I'm told that they are one of the biggest causes of system slow-downs you can find.

If you didn't go near the Internet at all, would you need one?

How about just for software updates? Would you need a security program like VET?

No security software, no anti-virus, no windows firewall, nothing....

What I'm suggesting here is that you don't run any of that junk on your editing machine. Think of it like driving without a seatbelt. If you drive a lot, the odds are probably going to end up that you'll get in an accident at some point and not having it on will *probably* something you wish you had... but you could drive for years and years and it may never be a problem... Seeing as how you won't be using your editing machine to access the internet hardly at all, I personally don't think there is really a true risk in not running all that junk.

Heck, it wasn't very long ago (at least in my eyes) that none of this stuff really existed and wasn't mainstream at all...

Jon

hard drive size and XP
 

Hey Jon,
I'm looking at the system you spec'd at the the beginning of this thread. I probably won't go RAID right away but I do want 4 drives: system, capture, render, and finalize.
What is the biggest hard drive size that XP and the BIOS on the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R can handle. I would like to get at least a full 320GB for each without having to partition.

Thanks
Jim

Hey Jim,

Windows XP and the existing BIOS can read well above the 320Gb per drive so that isn't a problem. Just remember that when a drive manufacturer quotes a 320Gb drive, it's really a little less than that based on the way they calculate a "Gigabyte" versus what your computer calculates a Gigabyte.

Be sure you have a good power supply to give juice to all those drives + RAM, CPU, etc.. Probably wouldn't want to go with anything under 500.. 585 to 600 range should be good..

Jon

Power supply
 

Jon,
I was looking at the one you mentioned:
ENERMAX EG495P-VE NOISETAKER II ATX 12V VERSION 2.2 485W

Will this be enough?

Jim

What kind of Video Card and how much RAM are you plannting to go with? Also, are you getting a quad core or a dual core CPU?

Jon

System
 

Jon
Here is the system I am looking at:

XFX GEFORCE 8600 GT 256MB PCI EXPRESS DDR3 620MHZ DUAL DVI (Retail)
SEAGATE 250GB ST3250410AS SATA2 16MB 7200RPM
ENERMAX EG495P-VE NOISETAKER II ATX 12V VERSION 2.2 485W
ANTEC P182 (BLACK) ATX TOWER CASE
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R INTEL P35 CHIPSET ATX FORM FACTOR
CORE 2 DUO E6850 3.0G (1333Mhz)
CORSAIR 2GB KIT TWIN2X2048-6400C4DHX
2 WD 320GB 3200KS / 3200AAKS SATA300 16MB 7200RPM

I backed out 1 320GB drive due to cost.
The 600W PS are a lot more expensive.

Will the ENERMAX do the job?

Thanks
Jim

Jim,

I think the Enermax will be just fine with 3 HD's and the rest of your setup...

Power supply
 

Hey Jon,
I went with this for the power supply:
ENERMAX EG565P-VE FMA II ATX 12V VERSION 2.2 535W SLI CROSSFIRE READY RoHS UL FCC POWER SUPPLY FOR ATX CASES
just to get the extra wattage should I decide to add more drives or go Quad core.

Have you heard of whether this PS fit into the P182?

Thanks
Jim

Perfect... It'll fit just fine...

Jon

Jon,
Thanks for starting this thread and for all of your help.
I'll update this thread on how I made out - can't wait to get it built.

Jim

DDR3 Memory
 

Is there any real benefit to going with DDR3 vs DDR2? It appears at first glance that it would offer more FSB which I understand is important for video editing. But are there any issues with stability? What are the pros and cons?

I'm looking to build a new system and I want it to last me a while without breaking the bank. Budget is around $2000 to 2500 for the CPU

The benefit is marginal, 2-3% performance gain, but a huge loss on your wallet. Consider that the new Seaburg chipset used for the Harpertown (5400) Xeon's still relies on DDR2-800 ECC FBDIMM's and use a 1600 MHz FSB.

Setting up new system
 

I received my system yesterday and installed all of the components - starts up without a hitch.
However, I have a 250G SATA drive that I want to use for my system drive. When I go to partition it Windows only sees 137GB.

Is there a way to get around this?

Jim

Don't partition any drives. Your performance will only suffer.

137 GB limit
 

Well, I don't really want to partition the drives. I want to use the whole drive as the system drive but I am assuming the BIOS only sees 137GB. I read something about 24 and 48 bit LBA and if the BIOS doesn't have that you need to upgrade. I'm just surprised that the gigabyte motherboard would have this limitation.

Jim

That would be highly unlikely with a figure of 137. Right click My Computer, select Manage, then select Disk Management and check the properties of your C: drive. If you can't solve it there, a reformat may be necessary. You have the option when installing Windows to use the whole disk and you can check the recognized size of the disk. If that does not work, check your Bios settings.

No OS yet
 

Well, I haven't installed the OS yet - I'm trying to get the BIOS to see the entire 250GB. I'll have to call GigaByte tomorrow.

Need XP SP2
 

I got the drive to install the full 250GB after using an XP install disk with SP2.
Once the drivers were installed the system is up and screaming fast!

Thanks again Jon for this thread.

Jim

HDV System
 

First of all, hello everybody. This forum has given me a bunch of great info already on building my system, but I thought I'd just put it up here and see if anyone sees any potential bugaboos.

This system is for editing a 1 hour documentary shot in HDV (About 50 hours of mixed DV/HDV material, hoping to use the Blackmagic Intensity Pro's Online JPEG intermediate codec for editing). I'm considering doing a RAID 5 array to keep performance brisk and spread the risk around a little.

-Antec P180B case
-Seasonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT 650W PSU
-ASUS P5K Deluxe Mainboard
-Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Processor
-2 x OCZ Platinum DD2 1066 (PC2 8500) 2x1G SDRAM (4GB total)
-Western Digital Raptor 150GB Hard Drive (System)
-(3) Western Digital Caviar GP 1TB Hard Drives in RAID-5
-Samsung 226BW 22" LCD Monitor
-Plextor PX-810SA/SW-BL DVD Burner (SATA)
-Windows XP Pro SP2 OEM
-2 x Fantom G-Force MegaDisk MDC1000 1TB 7200 RPM External Hard Drives (For backup only)
-Blackmagic Intensity Pro Card
-M-Audio Delta 1010LT Sound Card

+ Mackie HR824mk2 speakers, cables, Adobe Studio Premium Upgrade, Magic Bullet Looks

I realize accurate detail monitoring via the LCD monitor will still be a challenge, but for color correction, I already have a Sony PVM-14L5 video monitor, which can do component BNC 1080i input.

The Caviar GP drives are in an effort to keep noise and energy usage down, but if anyone has had a bad experience with using them for HD editing, I'd like to know. Also, has anyone worked with the Delta 1010LT? It seems right for the price, but it would be nice to have a second opinion.

i dont trust the wester digital.

recently bought a 500gb LaCie and great so far.

1- If value is something you're looking for, then the Antec case+PSU bundles might be worth considering.

2- If you need low noise, there's lots of info over at silentpcreview.com

3- I don't think you'll see that much of a performance improvement from going with a very fast system drive... video editing is mostly limited to drive bandwidth, not seek times. Maybe your programs will load a few seconds faster but... you'll likely save more time by just having a bigger 7200rpm hard drive to store all your stock library footage on (and not waste as much time clearing out drive space).

A big RAID can also be helpful for working with large HD files. I haven't been following RAID controllers closely to see how they stack up in performance and whether or not they corrupt your data.

4- You might be able to save some money on the DVD burner, depending on your needs.

5- In Windows XP SP2, you might see only 3GB of RAM.

6- Video card?

I think people have had problems with all brands.

Lacie doesn't make the hard drive that's in the enclosure... it is likely WD or Seagate or Maxtor or Hitachi etc. etc.
As far as external enclosures go, lots of people report problems with external drives. Definitely make sure that the drive is being cooled well (or have a backup plan in case the drive dies).