Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

JVCKENWOOD has announced new features for the GY-LS300 that will be provided through a firmware upgrade in the near future: JVC News Release --JVC announces upgraded firmware 2.0 for GY-LS300

This firmware upgrade adds several important features:
• Cinema 4K (4096 x 2160) and Cinema 2K (2048 x 1080) recording
• JVC Log (Cinema log) mode with 800% dynamic range
• Prime Zoom feature that links zoom rocker with Variable Scan Mapping. Lets you zoom with a prime lens.
• Histogram (same function as on GY-HM850/890)

The update adds numerous other features as well, including color matrix adjustment, black paint, spot meter, HDMI/HD-SDI out (HD) while recording 4K, HD-SDI/HDMI trigger (for ATOMOS), 70Mbps 4K recording for longer time, smaller files (uses economical class 10 cards) and upgrades to IP and streaming (same as found on latest 800 series.)

The time frame for the firmware update release is September.

Cordially,
- Craig

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

That certainly makes this camera more appealing. I'm considering it as a 4k upgrade to my trusty FS100.
I've got so many questions about this camera and there's mixed opinions across the internet.
Difficult to know where to start...

How much latitude/dynamic range will the Log upgrade give this camera.
Will there be a setting to use this Log in Premier or FCPX.
Will the ND wheel get in the way of a Aputure DEC lens adaptor.
Will the update improve the low light performance.
Using a dongle, can multiple clients get low res previews on iPads/iPhones & add clip name metadata.
Can this metadata been seen by Premier or FCPX.

If anyone can help, TIA
Duncan.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Also, is the HDMI/SDI output 10-bit?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I bit the bullet and there's an LS-300 sat in front of me now.
Initial impressions are quite favourable.

Loving the variable shutter speed and two WB presets on the push button. Weight is OK, the fan is quiet, 12 volt input is helpful, and I'm wondering if the host USB port can supply 1A 5v to run my wireless HDMI transmitter (I've seen a video that suggests it can) Switching instantly between 'PAL' and 'NTSC' frame rates is a nice change compared to my Sony experience.

Looking forward to the update. I'd like to see:

Slower shutter speeds for time lapse.
A simplified remote viewer option so that clients can just view an image with timecode but without any camera controls. (not bothered about the video lag)
Slightly better low light performance.
FCPX support for the new Log recording.

There's a few mistakes on the manual I think:

- My camera only has a 1/4 inch thread and locating pin on the base, there's no 3/8.
- Also the pdf picture of the audio selection buttons is wrong, all four vertically sliding buttons have three positions (as you would hope)

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

That's great news about the 2.0 firmware. Recently I was turned-on to this camera, the JVC-log and increased dynamic range really puts this camera on my list. Trying to get a demo camera from JVC rep in Denver. Hope to try it out 2-3 days before pulling the trigger.

Initially I was looking at get a Canon C100 or even spending a little more and get the older C300. Which are still great camera, I'm just looking to get into 4k, it will really help my interviews.

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Craig -

This update makes the cam pretty appealing to me, but honestly the one thing still missing that I would really make use of is higher variable frame rates (up to 120 fps in at least 720p). Unless I am missing something the LS-300 tops out at 60 fps regardless of resolution, correct?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

The highest frame rate in 4K is 29.97p, and in HD 50Mbp/s 4:2:2 it is 1920x1080/59.94p. With the DCI firmware update, the frame rates are specified to remain the same.

We have been suggested by numerous parties to implement recording higher frame rates, and we are looking into it.

- Craig

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Dave - re frame rate

found this bit of information on frame rates for the FS300 that might be of interest for you:
then look at 2:56 and it lists several.

If this is correct it appears you’re well covered.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I'm not sure what to make of that - since it seems at odds with what Craig (and the spec listings for the camera on B&H and other sites) are saying... which is that the cam tops out at 59.94 fps.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I don't understand the German but given the asterisks they might be talking about frame rates that are achievable using an external recording device (like an Atomos Nijna perhaps)?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Wow - if JVC could hit those frame rates it would be great.

I would be more than happy with 120fps in HD and 72fps in UHD (of course higher is always better - 250fps HD would be ideal)

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

The video is about the European model LS300CHE, in the US it is the LS300U, the specs will be somewhat different in some areas; however, the frame rates should be in the ballpark. As they saying goes, “Your kilometers may vary.”

Other areas in the video that were of interest are:
2:48 frame rates vs picture/crop size
8:47 covers adapters, including Nikon mount
11:07 lens optics available (with pictures)
11:20 Optics: format, sensor, size
14:08 HD 4:2:2 50 Mbits
19:13 live streaming configurations

A major selling point is not being tied to a lens ecosystem and that is a real plus. The downside is for many lenses an adapter would have to be used and in some cases if rails are needed there may be interference, but I think this may only be for long lenses. The other part is with a long and heavy lens the cam is nose-heavy but probably not used hand-held anyway.

One beauty of this system as opposed to a regular camcorder is a prime lens can be used. This can open up a lot of creative opportunity. Having a good prime lens on the cam really raises the bar for picture bokeh. As cams change, or if one has a B-cam, the lenses can be interchanged. Properly taken care of, a lens will last many years so good glass is a good investment, unlike a regular cam with a permanently attached lens. Something to think about.

It would be interesting what Craig has to say about the fps on the U model.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I now see the discrepancy in the dialog. The specifications being presented is that of the imager itself, not of the camcorder.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I've used the camera on three jobs over four days.

Shooting interviews and cookery for an satellite infomercial - semi controlled environment, crew of 5
Shooting interviews and cutaways for online promotions - fast turnaround, crew of 2
Shooting chromakey commercials for two days - controlled, crew of 8

My major problem with the camera is the screen and evf. They are unusable at the moment.
The colour rendition is completely and utter nowhere near the actual recorded image.
It's very very hard to judge colour rendition and exposure.

Histograms will help in some respects, but just looking at the picture on the side screen (which is how I prefer to operate) the colours are muted/missing and the whites crush so easily that judging highlights is impossible. The screen peaking effect all the time during operation, which I suspect might be to blame to an extent. It can be adjusted slightly but it needs to be switched off I reckon.

But the colour is hopeless. The reds are almost missing from the image it seems.
Goodness know how exposing using Log is going to work on this camera?

The EVF has such a narrow field of view that your eye need to be exactly centred, and any deviation at all causes loss of view, plus the diopter will not stay still. Every time I go to use it, the diopter has moved and I have to stop filming to reach underneath and slide it to the middle again. I going to stick it down somehow.

But I've got to say the pictures are really lovely so long as you do a manual white balance on every single setup. The chromakey shoot was 12k of Tungsten locked down with an auto cue and the results were really clean and accurate and keyed really well in 50Mbps 422.

I'll fiddle some more with it to see what the EVF and screen options can do to help, but I expect I'm going to have to get my Small HD out of it's wireless director's rig and use it on the camera instead.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Does this mean that there is a potential for higher frame rates?
The GY-LS300 seems to be almost alone amongst the latest crop of cameras that doesn't have this feature.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Here' a Small HD monitor next to the built in sidefinder.
Skin tones seem muted on the sidefinder, making some shots look very odd.
I guess it just takes some getting used to.

Also a question for those in the know.
When I record in 4:2:2 and import into FCPX the whites are clipped at 100%.
All the other codecs/bitrate combinations import with superwhites intact.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Duncan -

That's pretty disconcerting to me. Although I have a SmallHD monitor I use for carefully setup shots (like interviews, etc.), I currently use a Panasonic AF100 for cinematic look in run & gun situations - and don't know what I would do with any worse built-in monitoring solutions than that cam itself has (which are not awesome but at least robustly built and "true" to what is being recorded).

The addition of a histogram to the LS-300 really piqued my interest, but - assuming you calibrated everything - the disparity between what the two screens are showing is pretty big.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Soooo.... Does the camera yet have 10 bit? Bit of a bummer that it doesn't.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I'm currently cutting the first UHD project from this camera.
Some camera movement seems to break the codec very easily resulting in macro blocking.

I filmed a sign on a door, as we closed the door and the signage drops into focus.
Large areas of almost block colours, plenty of out of focus areas, not full of detail, but the counter movements of the reflection moving one way and the lettering on the door moving another way seems to confuse the encoder...

Once or twice where the camera recorded really ugly breakup where I was hand held and chucking it around. Finding shots etc.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Here's a few examples of the camera compression issues I've had as I've been editing.

I'm shooting an HD job tomorrow.
Once I'm back I'll update the camera firmware, as I've seen there was an update earlier in the year.
Although it says it only fixes Metabones issues...

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Duncan -

Just curious, what mode were you shooting in? Wondering if it was maybe one of the lower bit rate modes and if the problem might be lessened in one of the higher bit rate recording modes (not that it should be happening in ANY mode).

I haven't seen macro-blocking that bad on any other recent pro camera.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

The examples I posted were shot in UHD.
And there's only one bitrate option available at that resolution: 150Mbps.

I'll do a firmware update and see if it helps.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I managed to find a newer version of the firmware, no thanks to the rather unhelpful website.
So far I have been unable to recreate the really bad codec breakup which is good news.

I've been testing the how the 1080p recording holds up with the VSM dialled all the way into 43%, which is the maximum magnification. It doesn't look perfect but passable.

My main concern now is the general noise in the shadows as well as FPN in the recording. The VSM seems to be magnifying the noise (as you might expect) so the 'grain' appear over twice the size when switching between 100% and 43% for example.

On another test I'm doing, I'm using manual Nikkon lenses with a smooth aperture control lens adaptor.
As I rack the iris down and the image gets darker, macro blocking suddenly appears and it's really noticeable because the image isn't moving, only the exposure. It's really horrible.

Is it likely that this problem that will go away with the v2 update I wonder?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

The macro blocking it's a tricky thing to show, but I've attached a composite image of a series of sequential stills as I rack the iris down on the JVC.

You might expect some banding in an 8 bit codec, so I put the same lens on my FS100 and included an FS100 image on the far left. The JVC is much sharper than the Sony, but the noise pattern on the Sony is much better.

I've pushed the image around in photoshop to accentuate the blocking.
It wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that the rest image is very clean and your eye gets drawn to these errors as soon as they occur. I guess an external recorded would have this problem, but that's not why I bought this camera.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

I finally (after 2 tries) got a fully functioning LS300... I'm extremely pleased with this largely neglected camera.

In answer to Duncan's comments above... (BTW, I've only shot 1080 50mbps 422 because I don't have a fast enough card for 4K).

I also got whites clipping at 100 importing into FCPX, even though I selected 108% (the highest available) in the menu. I had the camera set at WDR Natural. I switched off WDR and set it for Cinema Gamma and the import into FCPX was no longer clipped at 100. This should be fixed by JVC with firmware since clipping whites in WDR is sorta counter-intuitive.

However, I've had zero problems with macro-blocking or excessive noise. I've swung the camera wildly, boosted the ISO to 1600, internationally underexposed, and no blocking, and the blacks are remarkably noise free and clean. I have a C100, and it doesn't hold a candle to this camera at low ISOs (of course the Canon is far superior in high ISOs, that's why I've kept it).

The big question now is - when do we get this promised firmware update? I've searched JVC's pathetic site with no luck.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Congratulations Steven.

I would have thought that a cinema gamma clipped the whites in the 4:2:2 codec.
I'm sure it does in the other codecs. That's good to know.

Here's some v2 'news' here: News Shooter | IBC 2015: Meet J-Log- JVC’s new log format

There's a few things in there that are a disappointment:
800% DR vs an a7s with 1300%.
The prime zoom feature only works with native MFT lenses.
The histogram covers up the audio meters.

This might just be beta issues, so I'm hoping that the update will arrive soon too.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

There is not much talk about this ls300 allthough it seems like a great camera, price has gone down here to 3500 euro tax incl, so excl tax it's "only" 2890 euro. From what I understand you can control Iris on native mft lenses on the camera without any exposure jumps which I consider a important feature for run and gun and the zooming ability on mft primes (looks the same as on the nex-ea50, although that caused resolution loss) is a great feature too. I have a whole load of native mft lenses lying around here.

The fact that they first "forgot" to add a histogram and now are overlaying it on the audiometers seems like they either don't know how important this feature is and don't test much to see if it works in real life, can you at least hide the histogram so you can see the audiometers if necessary?

Does the stabilization and autofocus also work on mft lenses, like the 12-35mm panasonic lens? Anyone tested how good the autofocus works?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Wow that is a big price drop. But to be honest unless JVC keep people in the picture more often by using forums like this then why should anyone take notice of their products.

It's been over a month since this thread was started by a JVC representative, but he's not been back to answer anyone's questions.

Currently I use a collection of Nikon fit lenses but I'm considering a move to Tamron lenses with Canon mount so that I can get image stabilisation. The VC lenses at 24-70 and 70-200 look like pretty good. But how does the JVC handle metabones adaptors?

Metabones themselves suggest a lack of autofocus etc. But I'd like to hear it from JVC.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Duncan, is it possible to scroll through iso values while recording or is the only way to change iso with the switch on the side, meaning only 3 presets are available?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Yes, I've just tested it. Of course it's very lumpy as you change the ISO, and you have to go into the menu but it does do it.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Duncan, hold your horses before wasting money on Canon!!! Electronic adapters for Nikon F Mount are just around the corner, or use native m4/3 lenses from Panasonic.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Do many of the MFT specific lenses cover an APS sensor?
Sure if it was a generic design by Sigma or Tamron then it probably would.

A Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 2.8 power zoom set for £1400 sounds OK, but it'll be designed for the MFT crop size right? I can only just about get enough background separation with my 2.8s fully open in S35.

(By the way the cropped modes on the JVC do not look as good as the S35 setting - I wouldn't use them unless I had to)

Another thing to add here, is that I use dumb adaptors for my Nikon glass, and before the JVC would tend to use a variable ND. While shooting I can apply tiny smooth iris or ND corrections to adjust the exposure without having to take my eyes of the screen. Metabones adaptors give the typical 'coarse' iris adjustments. Are the MFT lenses smoother?

Nikon adaptors? I hadn't heard about this...

The Canon lens protocol is very well understood and everyone from Metabones to Aputure, even cheap stuff like Commlite have a great range of active adaptors. It'll take a while (if ever) before Nikon adaptors can reach that kind of feature set.

Currently I do most of my shooting on a Sigma 24-70 Nikon, great results but no stabilisation.
Most of my Nikkor glass is pre autofocus and non-IS too.

A Tamron 24-70 and 70-200 2.8 set with stabilisation is £1600 and they get great results with good focus throw, non rotating front elements and so on (the 70-200 in internal focus and zoom).

Happy to be corrected though.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Here screen grabs of footage from a recent job.
The original and a version with the gamma lifted.

You can see a really odd black area centre right which stays stuck in the blacks with horrible artefacts around it. It's not acting in a normal way as this area of black appears to 'stick' in the lower area of a scope long after the black area near to it has raised.

...hard to describe, but it almost seems like FCPX isn't handling the codec properly.

This was with the camera defaulted to -3 blacks, which I've now set to 0. I need to do more tests, including transcoding it to Pro Res - off to shoot a few days of drama with the LS300 and an a7s.

Perhaps v2 will fix this, JVC we await your news.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Disappointing to hear about the histogram, but I use a Gratical exclusively so it isn't a problem for me - but yet another blunder on JVC's part - it's a shame that they're torpedoing their own flagship product.

Also, surprised to hear that the zoom feature only works with MFT native lenses...that is another counter-intuitive blunder - using EF or converted PL or full frame lenses would take full advantage of the sensor.

As for my experience, I really do like the basic camera. I've tested it with almost all my lenses including...

EF 24-105 (doesn't hold up well on this camera, but has been fine on the C100)
EFS 17-55 (pretty good choice with the Metabones)
Olympus 12-40 Pro (good, sharp zoom, but it loses it's seeming par focal ability with this camera)
Nokton 17.5 (my favorite with this camera, a cruiser like the old 10mm on S16 days - and it will apparently work with the zoom feature)
Canon 12-120 T2.6 Fluorite, a lens I've owned since 1973 (focus shift when zooming, probably the CA-1 to MFT adapter)
Angenieux 15-150 (not my favorite lens but for some reason looks better on this camera than any other I've used it on)
Leica-R 35mm and 50mm (tried and true)
plus a Leica packaged Anegeniex 45-90 f2.8.

And no, auto focus does not work with the Metabones... I'm old school so I don't use it anyway. I think IS is working on the 17-55 but can't tell for sure, doesn't look jelloey anyway. Auto focus does work very well with the native MFT Olympus 12-40.

The 12-40 is probably the best choice if you have only one lens. It's very sharp, has a nice look to it, and because it's native MFT will probably work with the zoom feature, which would extend it's range (if the feature will work with zooms?) That and the 17.5 Nokton would cover a lot of bases.

I forgot to add that when I set up the Nokton I was able to adjust the VSM to a couple of clicks above MFT (I think like 87%), which makes it closer to a 14mm. Irregardless of the zoom feature, you can also "tighten" the FOV by clicking the VSM down to 60 or 50% and it's still perfectly acceptable for documentary work. Faster and easier (especially on a fishing boat) than changing lenses.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

BTW, the histogram can toggle on and off can't it? Cuz I don't want it if it covers the audio meters, which I do need. I have the Gratical X and didn't pay extra for meters.

Also, most if not all of the Panasonic and Olympus MFT lenses just cover the MFT circle, at least the ones I've used. Some even vignette slightly then.

And again, when and where can I get these new features? It's not clear on the JVC site.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Another comment - in the last two years I've made seven short documentaries and a dozen TV spots for colleges and a university - all shot on BM Pocket Cameras.

Using this camera and getting the image pretty much the way I want it right out of the camera is really refreshing after all that grading - the current trend... It reminds me of when I shot film and everything looked nearly perfect with a one-light print... It's why I like the C100 too, but it doesn't do 422 without an external.

One complaint - I'm a fast shooter, all doc, mostly handheld, and I don't like that the Canon 17-55 and Olympus 12-40 don't act as par focal, because they do on their "native" cameras, and even on the lowly Pockets. Maybe I have a flange issue. Anyone else have this problem?

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Steve. That's for all your input regarding lenses.
You got a really wide range of glass it seems.

I think that a native MFT lens might be a worthwhile investment.

Do you find (like we do) that the rear viewfinder totally unusable for anything other than confirming that the camera is switched on! And that the colour rendition of the side monitor is off by a very wide margin?

TIA

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Duncan. yeah I'm pretty much in agreement about the finders. but after many years of inadequate finders (try shooting dark interiors with a Bolex Rex, or even shooting ASA 800 rated film with an Eclair or Aaton) I'm not as put off as most because I prefer custom mounted EVFs (in fact the finder on my C100 hasn't even worked for 2 years).

In a pinch I could use the camera's EVF to frame and focus (the focus assist feature that turns the screen B&W but retains color for peaking is a big help). The LCD is sub-standard, but I'm not seeing the dramatic difference your posted stills show, mine's not that far off from the Gratical - neither of which have I custom tuned. I think I could tweak the LCD and get it really close to the Gratical, but I really only use it for the menu. These days there are so many external viewing options out there (like the new BM Video Assist or the SmallHD 502 you have) that that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me... the big thing is having a decent box and not having to buy more lenses.

The LS300 is far from perfect - the sad thing is that it easily could have been perfect. If JVC ever makes a higher end model I'll buy it. But given the lack-luster response to this camera that's probably not going to happen. Plus too many are predicting the inevitable end of pro/prosumer MFT, which is a shame in itself.

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Are there any MFT 2.8 constant lenses with power zoom? I can't seem to find any...

The two Panasonic MFT lenses - 12-35 and 35-100 at 2.8 cost approx £940, and the full frame Tamron (Canon fit) VC lenses - 24-70 and 70-200 2.8, cost approx £1250. I'd lean towards the Tamron option assuming smart adapters such as the Commlite are compatible with Tamron's VC stabilisation. But I'd also need a Metabones Speedbooster adapter to cover the same zoom range.

Does anyone know which Canon EF - MFT Metabones Speedboosters will work on the LS-300? Just the Ultra?

Also, I can't afford another EVF and I'd like to keep the rig as small as possible, can anyone recommend a loupe to use on the LS-300 side screen? It would need to sit in place but still allow access to the controls on left of the sidefinder screen.

Thanks!

Re: Upcoming New Features for the GY-LS300 Announced
 

Duncan - don't know about power zooms.

Here are some opinions, but others may not agree.

The Olympus 12-40 Pro is better than the Lumix 12-35. I had both and sold the Lumix because the extra 5mm makes a difference, and also the Olympus seems to hold closer to the 2.8 max aperture through the range.

The Lumix 35-100 is probably the best lens Panasonic makes. I use it often, very sharp and appears par focal at most stops (my spell correct keeps separating par focal)

I have four EVFs that I've accumulated since they became available, the original Cineroid, which I've kept as a backup, two Z-Finder Pros and a Gratical X.

Sometimes I shoot in places like homeless shelters, and when I do I take my "low-end" equipment - and I've used the old Cineroid on the LS300 and it works well. It's not near as sharp as the Gratical, of course, but I've seen them used for around $150. The Cineroid got a bad rap because it seemed cheaply made of plastic - but because of that it's extremely light, nearly half the weight of the Z-Finer Pro, and I've had mine since I bought the AF100, and it still works well. Not as sophisticated as you want, but a good interim choice if you can find one.

The Gratical X is two grand with the "Filmmaker Essentials", but hopefully it's the last finder I'll ever need. Sometimes its a good idea to buy something that's future-proof... unfortunately that's difficult to predict in todays changing market - I thought my $30,000 Panasonic HPX500 was, but it was obsolete before I finished the feature doc I bought it for - that's why I don't spring for any camera over five grand anymore.