What's Your Second Cam To The LS300

[Nick Haman]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

The gx80 suffers from some bad aliasing artifacts in 1080p so you need to watch out with that, in 4K those artifacts almost completely disappear.

I don't see why you would shoot 1080p with these cameras, it's also a very low bitrate 28mbps at 1080p, but 100mbps at 4K.

Originally Posted by Noa Put

The image it produces is also quite contrasty and saturated. The highlights on the gx80 also clip faster then on a GH4 or 5 so good exposure is important, cine-d might help in that respect, have not tried it but will soon. For those who have cine-d active on the gx80, what happens if you turn the camera off and on again, will it remain in the cine-d mode or do you each time have to manually select it again?

You can save CineD as the custom profile and then restore all the others, it stays after turning on and off, replacing battery, you name it, just like any other profile. It's not called CineD on the camera though, just 'custom' or even no name at all if you don't save it as custom. There are now rumours of a LOG profile coming through the hack, which is very exciting.

Originally Posted by Aaron Jones Sr.

Great shots. I was pixel peeping and could not tell them apart. I do see one has a slight more shadow than the other but I could not tell you which cam is which.

The JVC is the wider shot, Lumix is close. I think the shadow part is just me dipping the blacks a little too much on the Lumix, will check it out later today.

[Aaron Jones Sr.]

Nick they look so close as if they were shot by the same cam. When you pixel peep and magnify the two it is even harder to tell that they came from different cams. Looks like an awesome match with those two cams.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Nick Haman

I don't see why you would shoot 1080p with these cameras, it's also a very low bitrate 28mbps at 1080p, but 100mbps at 4K.

You shoot 1080p if you need 50P, I use it most of the time if want slowmotion, I only shoot with fast lenses so I can blur out backgrounds and eliminate some nasty aliasing, 1080p on the gx80 fits in nicely with 4K footage from my other camera's, I can't tell the difference even if it's "only" 28mbs, as long as you don't shoot high detailled fast moving shots the codec is not the issue, in that respect 100mbs for 4K is also a quite low bitrate that can cause artifacts if it has to deal with too much information.

[Nick Haman]

Originally Posted by Aaron Jones Sr.

Nick they look so close as if they were shot by the same cam. When you pixel peep and magnify the two it is even harder to tell that they came from different cams. Looks like an awesome match with those two cams.

The Lumix was using the stock 35-100 lens at f4 (it also comes with 12-32). LS300 was with Sigma 18-35 at f1.8. I imagine if you had them both on the same f.stop they'd match even more. For now I only have one metabones though, so can't test that out in the real world.


Noa, fair point, I've never needed to shoot 50p, so forgot that was even an option. I mean 'only 28mbps' based on the fact that 50mbps is the broadcast minimum in the UK, so it could come with some issues further down the line if that's what you're using it for.

[Noa Put]

I mean 'only 28mbps' based on the fact that 50mbps is the broadcast minimum in the UK, so it could come with some issues further down the line if that's what you're using it for.

If my clients would expect a broadcast codec the GX80 would not be on my list, it's a family camera for those who expect a bit more then just point and shoot and that you take with you on holiday, you can also use it as a b or c-camera on paid jobs, like I do, as long as you know it's limitations and have clients that don't expect a broadcast codec.

[Nick Haman]

I think we're saying the same thing, which is why I said 'if that's what you're using it for'. I was just clarifying what I meant by 'only 28mbps'. Didn't mean to offend.

This thread is about a b-cam and that's exactly what the GX80 can be used for. I work in broadcast TV, so wouldn't shoot 1080p at 28mbps, no matter how many frames that gives me.

Since we actually air our material in 1080 though, it's fine to shoot at 4k 100mbps and scale down, since it's not the main camera. Our clients never see the raw material, so as long as the final edit meets the minimum requirements (50mbps), there's nothing to worry about.

[Noa Put]

Not offended at all :) I was surprised that mp4 was a broadcast codec and that bitrate only is a considering factor to be accepted for broadcast delivery.

[Nick Haman]

Ah cool, no we wouldn't deliver in MP4, it's obviously better to edit with all your clips in teh same format so we encode to XDcam or ProRes before we start cutting. Naturally some info is lost in the encoding, but starting with a file far above the requirements (4K 100mbps), the encoded clip is still above the minimum.

It's not just bitrate that matters though, there are quite a few niggly requirements :D

[Alex Humphrey]

Sort of off topic...This more like a C camera: What about a late model Samsung Galaxy or iPhone 7 running the Filmic Pro app ($19 I think) that has full manual control over the phone as well as log? I have an iPod Touch (not enough HP to run the Filmic Pro app) so I have the Movie Pro app on my iPod Touch that does not have Log of any form (might in the future) but adjustable bit rates and shutter, frame rates, aspect ratio etc. That way while out and about if you need to steal a shot somewhere you might be able to get some good enough footage with the cell phone you already have. So far the footage with the iPod that I already own is not terrible with the app compared to the built in camera app that is terrible. That and maybe a $200 powered hand gimble and you have the cheapest steady cam available. as long as you got a phone with enough storage space.

[Lee Powell]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

If my clients would expect a broadcast codec the GX80 would not be on my list, it's a family camera for those who expect a bit more then just point and shoot and that you take with you on holiday, you can also use it as a b or c-camera on paid jobs, like I do, as long as you know it's limitations and have clients that don't expect a broadcast codec.

I routinely use After Effects to produce broadcast quality 1080p 4:2:2 10-bit color 50 Mbps clips from 4K 4:2:0 8-bit footage originally shot by the LS300 (before the recent 4:2:2 firmware update). I see no reason why properly graded 4K 4:2:0 8-bit 100 Mbps footage from the GX80/85 or G80/85 could not be processed in the same way. In practice, "broadcast quality" is simply a video format specification.

[Noa Put]

I always thought that for broadcast the codec straight of the camera mattered, didn't know it was this simple, that means you can turn your Iphone into a broadcast camera, just convert to the "right" codec afterwards, because even if it's not 50mbs originally, how does a news station know this if they get a converted file?

[Nick Haman]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I always thought that for broadcast the codec straight of the camera mattered, didn't know it was this simple, that means you can turn your Iphone into a broadcast camera, just convert to the "right" codec afterwards, because even if it's not 50mbs originally, how does a news station know this if they get a converted file?

Yeah that's basically right, but only if you can get away with it. News stations are likely more forgiving, since they simply need the material of whatever the story is. That's also why they can broadcast security camera footage, no way that meets the standards.

But if you (or your company/clients) are creating completely original content from planning, shooting and editing to broadcasting, you don't want to be called out by any standards agencies, who can be quite harsh, it's best to adhere to the rules haha, or at least know how to make things fit within the rules in a reasonable way. Of course, if it works for the story to use a phone camera, and there's a reason to do it, go for it. The movie 'Tangerine' was shot entirely on an iPhone 5S: Tangerine (2015) - IMDb

Anyway, off topic, sorry about that - what other Bcams are people using?

[Jim Nogueira]

Originally Posted by Aaron Jones Sr.

How is your Auto Focus with the GH4. I want to lean to that cam but from what I have been seeing the GX85 is better at auto focus. Can you shed some light on that?

I'm not an Auto Focus guy, so I can't really be helpful. I almost always focus manually. A few times at wedding receptions, when holding the camera high over my head, I threw it into auto, and it was okay. But I usually find that it can be fooled too easily. I've read great things about the GH5's Auto Focus, but have no experience yet with that camera.

[Aaron Jones Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jim Nogueira

I'm not an Auto Focus guy, so I can't really be helpful. I almost always focus manually. A few times at wedding receptions, when holding the camera high over my head, I threw it into auto, and it was okay. But I usually find that it can be fooled too easily. I've read great things about the GH5's Auto Focus, but have no experience yet with that camera.

I'm not an auto focus guy either but when using a gimbal it is the wise choice. I use the gimbal for music vids, cinematic shots of the bride and groom, b-roll and that sort of thing. You can use manual focus and just stay parallel but that limits you as to what shots you can get.

I had the GH5 but I sold it cause I was only using it for b-roll and that was too hefty of a price to pay in my eyes for a b-roll cam. Which cam were you referring to that you shoot with at weddings? (GH4 or GX85)

I did a little snooping around the net looking for positive feedback on the GH4 Auto Focus but was met with a mediocre average of feedback. It seems people say it does pretty well when the light is good, but not so much when the lighting is not on par in like the shadows of a tree for example. Again this is just what seems to be the consensus from what I'm gathering. I do not have first hand experience. I hear the GX85 does better with auto focus but the ISO intervals are lacking quite a bit and so it is hard to dial in properly your ISO. May have to rely on shutter speed and iris to make up the difference.

When using a gimbal I do not want my shutter speed below 125.

[Nick Haman]

Originally Posted by Aaron Jones Sr.

I hear the GX85 does better with auto focus but the ISO intervals are lacking quite a bit and so it is hard to dial in properly your ISO.

On the rare occasion I've used autofocus on the GX80, it's worked well, but I'm not really a fan in general, on any camera. As for ISO, you can go 100 - 125 - 160 - 200 - 250 - 320 - 400 - 500 - 640 - 800- 1000 - 1250 - 1600 - 2000 - 2500 - 3200 - 4000 - 5000 - 6400.

I wouldn't go above 1600 and even that's a stretch, but in the lower end the intervals aren't exactly huge jumps. By default the 'ISO Increments' is set to 1EV, but in the photo settings you can change it to 1/3EV, and that also has an affect on the video move. Note though, 100 - 125 - 160 can't be used in video mode.