What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I started this thread to see if I could get the fellas to post about there second cam or B-Cam to the LS3. What I'm looking for is the B-Cam that you use and why you like it. If you can please post some footage that show.

As for myself I think I'm leaning toward the Panasonic GH4 as I can get it pretty low these days.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Chewing on the subject myself.

My list of maybes is.

1. Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera or used 2.5 Blackmagic camera?
2. JVC GY-HM170 4K (if it had J-Log I would already have one)
3. Pansonic GH4 used? a new GH5 loaded is the price of a JVC LS300...

Those are the obvious ones, and hopefully people have some other options out there. I'm leaning to getting a BMPCC or used BMPC in M43.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

On Tuesday, I'll be using a GH3 as a wide shot for a single person interview. The client wants Rec709 so no issues with log.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

HM200. Same control set up and its small sensor gives me great DOF when I need it

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I looked into a lot of small cameras for taking on the road and eventually went for the Panasonic GX80 (GX85) The stabilisation is unreal, and I can share my lenses. There was also recently a hack to allow more colour profiles making it easy to match to J-Log.

I was mailing the Leeming guys, and they noted that through their testing, it's more or less the same as the GH5 in terms of colour. I've also seen comparisons with the GH4 and GX80. It has less of a crop, and more detail in the image.

I honestly think I couldn't have chosen a better camera, at least for my requirements. The only thing missing (aside from Log - which could actually come with the hack) is an external audio input. That said, on shoots where audio is important, I'll likely be using the LS300 at the same time, or if not, sick a zoom on top.

On Monday, I'll be shooting an interview and will take the GX80 and LS300, so I'll post some comparisons when it's all been matched up etc.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

So I do have a list that I'm considering. I too would like the GH5 as a b-cam but for $2K not sure that is wise at the moment.

The runners up are:

Sony RX10 III & II - as low as $1K
Panasonic FZ2500 - as low as $1K
These two because the attached quality lens, 4k, price point, and versatility. I dont have to look for the lens to use I can just go with this cam at the drop of a dime and get b-roll shots.

Panasonic GH4 - as low as $700 used - Slow motion, 4K, M4/3 Mount (Share my existing lenses), and Low light.
Panasonic G85 - $1200
Blackmagic Design Production Camera 4K - as low as $1700

I'm leaning toward the GH4

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I bought the LS300 as soon as it came out, and sold my Nikon D800 soon after. The D800 took impeccable photos, but its videos sucked, even with the best hacks and flat tone curves. I don't miss its gross moire, aliasing artifacts, and crappy shadow detail, not to mention the lame 20-minute video duration limit.

The LS300 has its own drawbacks, and to cover that and serve as B-cams I still use two 1080p hybrid cameras: the Nikon D5200 and Panasonic GH2. I was deeply involved in hacking both of these cameras to use 64 and 100 Mbps video bitrates, and I know how they work inside and out.

The D5200 has a 24 Mpix APS-C sensor with excellent high-ISO performance and no moire at all. Nikon and Tamron make top-notch full-frame lenses with video-friendly image stabilization that can be used vignette-free on the LS300 and GH2 with Metabones no-click aperture-ring adapters and speedboosters. While the GH2 lacks 4K video and log tone curves, it has the hacks that deliver the smoothest short-GOP fast-motion video capture of any camera I've used, and records long-duration video takes as well. Both D5200 and GH2 handle like a dream on sliders, video monopods, and active gimbals. I can stash these cameras in a satchel and take them anywhere, day (GH2) or night (D5200), ready to whip out and shoot in less than a minute.

The LS300 is happiest on a tripod or overhead hanger, wired up to an HDMI monitor and XLR audio feeds. Its 4K log recordings look flawless after grading and downsampling to 1080p and it can record two-hour performances virtually unattended. VSM is a godsend, a practical parfocal zoom that works with any decent lens. For my purposes, the LS300 is better suited than anything short of a 4K Varicam, which who knows, I might even be able to afford some day.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

So I just pigeon holed myself into a DSLR body style by purchasing the Zhiyun Crane V2. I also purchase the dual stabilizing grip with the Zhiyun ZW-B02 Wireless Remote Controller. So Im ready with the stabilizer just need the cam now. I keep going back and forth.

Was just looking at the Samsung NX1 which has a great autofocus, 4k, 28mpix, and quite the beast when specs are concerned. The price point makes no sense to me though at $2400... So right now it is between the GH4 and the G85. The G85 has good autofocus.

This matters when doing music videos and you are moving the cam around and there is not convient for a manual lens in this type of scenario. Do any of you brothers have experience with the GH4 and the G85 that can give me some insight between the two?

I guess my concern with the G85 is the IOS intervals. I hear that it is very limited - 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600
To be honest music vids are planned shooting sessions but if I want to turn around and use the same cam at a wedding then low light becomes a factor and so ISO will matter to get it dialed in.

The GH4 I'm hearing is descent in low light but only if you use the speedboat and a fast lens. I have the Roki T1.5 Series M4/3 and I want to know will the GH4 do well with them? I hear slow motion is descent but gets noticeable noise if the lighting is not good. I also hear the auto focus is slow and sometimes unresponsive if the subject is not lighted well.

I see there are a few hacks for both of these cams but would like to hear from someone who has used them and have better insight.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

For small gimbals, I think the best Lumix lenses are the 42.5mm f1.7 and the 30mm f2.8 macro. These featherweight primes focus smoothly in continuous auto-focus mode and Panasonic's recent firmware update made them compatible with IBIS dual-IS. I'm considering the GX85 as it appears to be hackable to use the Cine-D profile and I like its tiltable 16:9 LCD for gimbal mounting.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

As said before I use the GX80 (GX85) as my Bcam - hacked to use CineD and I love it. Having spoken with the Leeming guys, I bought the GH5 LUT as they're supposedly very close.

Today I had my first shoot with both the GX and the LS300, it was a solo interview, so the b-cam wasn't needed... perfect situation to test it out. Here are my results after a 30 second grade, and in my opinion, if these examples were cut together with some broll in between, I don't think anyone would question it.

edit: I spent longer uploading these grabs then I did grading the videos. I can only upload 1 pic on the forum, so here's a link to both JVC - Lumix - Album on Imgur - Guess which is which.

(Looking back, the closer shot is a little darker, but again, can fix in the grade if I put more time in)

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

The gx80 suffers from some bad aliasing artifacts in 1080p so you need to watch out with that, in 4K those artifacts almost completely disappear. The image it produces is also quite contrasty and saturated. The highlights on the gx80 also clip faster then on a GH4 or 5 so good exposure is important, cine-d might help in that respect, have not tried it but will soon. For those who have cine-d active on the gx80, what happens if you turn the camera off and on again, will it remain in the cine-d mode or do you each time have to manually select it again?

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

see pics below
That is freaking awesome!!



I had the Zhiyun Crane before and used it with the GH5 and the 12-60mm Lens and it did pretty well with no complaints. The Zhiyun Crane has a load capacity of 1800g which is just shy of 4lbs. So after looking at my music vid fiasco I figured I better grab another stabilizer. So I got the V2 this time and it has some great features and you can also get the remote to use with the dual grip. Let me see if I can find a pic.

This is why I need auto focus to work well!

The remote is called Zhiyun ZW-B02 Wireless Remote - I'm waiting for it to come available. It seems to be out of stock everywhere at the moment.
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yMUAAO...AlF/s-l300.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1fwH1Q...-Beholder.jpeg
https://shopcdn.textalk.se/shop/2962...384&quality=92
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wBaAIceMAJ4/hqdefault.jpg
https://bluebetter.guphotos.com/i/w?...-7abd-lf6U.jpg

If you want to get some strain relief you can try the Horn:

https://glidegear.net/wp-content/upl...7/DSC_0100.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DWqPnYcBaTA/maxresdefault.jpg

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Panasonic GH4. With Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100 lenses, an Olympus 12-42 lens, Nikon and Rokinon primes and Metabones adapters for both cameras, I am able to use any lens on either camera, and I'm covered in most situations. I mostly do documentary, corporate and wedding work.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Great shots. I was pixel peeping and could not tell them apart. I do see one has a slight more shadow than the other but I could not tell you which cam is which.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

How is your Auto Focus with the GH4. I want to lean to that cam but from what I have been seeing the GX85 is better at auto focus. Can you shed some light on that?

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I don't see why you would shoot 1080p with these cameras, it's also a very low bitrate 28mbps at 1080p, but 100mbps at 4K.

You can save CineD as the custom profile and then restore all the others, it stays after turning on and off, replacing battery, you name it, just like any other profile. It's not called CineD on the camera though, just 'custom' or even no name at all if you don't save it as custom. There are now rumours of a LOG profile coming through the hack, which is very exciting.

The JVC is the wider shot, Lumix is close. I think the shadow part is just me dipping the blacks a little too much on the Lumix, will check it out later today.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Nick they look so close as if they were shot by the same cam. When you pixel peep and magnify the two it is even harder to tell that they came from different cams. Looks like an awesome match with those two cams.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

You shoot 1080p if you need 50P, I use it most of the time if want slowmotion, I only shoot with fast lenses so I can blur out backgrounds and eliminate some nasty aliasing, 1080p on the gx80 fits in nicely with 4K footage from my other camera's, I can't tell the difference even if it's "only" 28mbs, as long as you don't shoot high detailled fast moving shots the codec is not the issue, in that respect 100mbs for 4K is also a quite low bitrate that can cause artifacts if it has to deal with too much information.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

The Lumix was using the stock 35-100 lens at f4 (it also comes with 12-32). LS300 was with Sigma 18-35 at f1.8. I imagine if you had them both on the same f.stop they'd match even more. For now I only have one metabones though, so can't test that out in the real world.


Noa, fair point, I've never needed to shoot 50p, so forgot that was even an option. I mean 'only 28mbps' based on the fact that 50mbps is the broadcast minimum in the UK, so it could come with some issues further down the line if that's what you're using it for.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

If my clients would expect a broadcast codec the GX80 would not be on my list, it's a family camera for those who expect a bit more then just point and shoot and that you take with you on holiday, you can also use it as a b or c-camera on paid jobs, like I do, as long as you know it's limitations and have clients that don't expect a broadcast codec.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I think we're saying the same thing, which is why I said 'if that's what you're using it for'. I was just clarifying what I meant by 'only 28mbps'. Didn't mean to offend.

This thread is about a b-cam and that's exactly what the GX80 can be used for. I work in broadcast TV, so wouldn't shoot 1080p at 28mbps, no matter how many frames that gives me.

Since we actually air our material in 1080 though, it's fine to shoot at 4k 100mbps and scale down, since it's not the main camera. Our clients never see the raw material, so as long as the final edit meets the minimum requirements (50mbps), there's nothing to worry about.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Not offended at all :) I was surprised that mp4 was a broadcast codec and that bitrate only is a considering factor to be accepted for broadcast delivery.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Ah cool, no we wouldn't deliver in MP4, it's obviously better to edit with all your clips in teh same format so we encode to XDcam or ProRes before we start cutting. Naturally some info is lost in the encoding, but starting with a file far above the requirements (4K 100mbps), the encoded clip is still above the minimum.

It's not just bitrate that matters though, there are quite a few niggly requirements :D

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Sort of off topic...This more like a C camera: What about a late model Samsung Galaxy or iPhone 7 running the Filmic Pro app ($19 I think) that has full manual control over the phone as well as log? I have an iPod Touch (not enough HP to run the Filmic Pro app) so I have the Movie Pro app on my iPod Touch that does not have Log of any form (might in the future) but adjustable bit rates and shutter, frame rates, aspect ratio etc. That way while out and about if you need to steal a shot somewhere you might be able to get some good enough footage with the cell phone you already have. So far the footage with the iPod that I already own is not terrible with the app compared to the built in camera app that is terrible. That and maybe a $200 powered hand gimble and you have the cheapest steady cam available. as long as you got a phone with enough storage space.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I routinely use After Effects to produce broadcast quality 1080p 4:2:2 10-bit color 50 Mbps clips from 4K 4:2:0 8-bit footage originally shot by the LS300 (before the recent 4:2:2 firmware update). I see no reason why properly graded 4K 4:2:0 8-bit 100 Mbps footage from the GX80/85 or G80/85 could not be processed in the same way. In practice, "broadcast quality" is simply a video format specification.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I always thought that for broadcast the codec straight of the camera mattered, didn't know it was this simple, that means you can turn your Iphone into a broadcast camera, just convert to the "right" codec afterwards, because even if it's not 50mbs originally, how does a news station know this if they get a converted file?

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Yeah that's basically right, but only if you can get away with it. News stations are likely more forgiving, since they simply need the material of whatever the story is. That's also why they can broadcast security camera footage, no way that meets the standards.

But if you (or your company/clients) are creating completely original content from planning, shooting and editing to broadcasting, you don't want to be called out by any standards agencies, who can be quite harsh, it's best to adhere to the rules haha, or at least know how to make things fit within the rules in a reasonable way. Of course, if it works for the story to use a phone camera, and there's a reason to do it, go for it. The movie 'Tangerine' was shot entirely on an iPhone 5S: Tangerine (2015) - IMDb

Anyway, off topic, sorry about that - what other Bcams are people using?

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I'm not an Auto Focus guy, so I can't really be helpful. I almost always focus manually. A few times at wedding receptions, when holding the camera high over my head, I threw it into auto, and it was okay. But I usually find that it can be fooled too easily. I've read great things about the GH5's Auto Focus, but have no experience yet with that camera.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

I'm not an auto focus guy either but when using a gimbal it is the wise choice. I use the gimbal for music vids, cinematic shots of the bride and groom, b-roll and that sort of thing. You can use manual focus and just stay parallel but that limits you as to what shots you can get.

I had the GH5 but I sold it cause I was only using it for b-roll and that was too hefty of a price to pay in my eyes for a b-roll cam. Which cam were you referring to that you shoot with at weddings? (GH4 or GX85)

I did a little snooping around the net looking for positive feedback on the GH4 Auto Focus but was met with a mediocre average of feedback. It seems people say it does pretty well when the light is good, but not so much when the lighting is not on par in like the shadows of a tree for example. Again this is just what seems to be the consensus from what I'm gathering. I do not have first hand experience. I hear the GX85 does better with auto focus but the ISO intervals are lacking quite a bit and so it is hard to dial in properly your ISO. May have to rely on shutter speed and iris to make up the difference.

When using a gimbal I do not want my shutter speed below 125.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

On the rare occasion I've used autofocus on the GX80, it's worked well, but I'm not really a fan in general, on any camera. As for ISO, you can go 100 - 125 - 160 - 200 - 250 - 320 - 400 - 500 - 640 - 800- 1000 - 1250 - 1600 - 2000 - 2500 - 3200 - 4000 - 5000 - 6400.

I wouldn't go above 1600 and even that's a stretch, but in the lower end the intervals aren't exactly huge jumps. By default the 'ISO Increments' is set to 1EV, but in the photo settings you can change it to 1/3EV, and that also has an affect on the video move. Note though, 100 - 125 - 160 can't be used in video mode.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

This is why I'm glad I asked the question. From the YouTube vids it was told that the ISO was more limited 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600. From what you are saying that is just fine with me.
Does the GX85 have ow motion?

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

You can shoot 50p 1920x1080 (60p in US I guess), at 28mbps. Noa noted that there's some aliasing, but with the right choice of lenses/framing/light it's avoidable.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Here is an example of the aliasing of the gx80 in 1080p and 4k

1080p
4K

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

The GX85 lacks an optical anti-aliasing filter. Judging from the moire in the 1080p video above, that was a mistake on Panasonic's part. Cameras that work better without an anti-aliasing filter have high-megapixel sensors, like the 24Mpix sensors used in Nikon APS-C cameras. The GX85 has a standard 16Mpix sensor, coarse enough to need an anti-aliaising filter. While less moire was visible in the 4K video sample, it would likely appear at a greater shooting distance, narrowing the vertical gap in the structure edges to match the resolution of the 4K pixels.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

The GH4. LS300 is the main camera. I'm not familiar with the GX85.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

How does the GH4 hold up for you at weddings. Obviously you like v=because you are still using it. Just wanting someone with a GH4 to comment on the autofocus. As I said before I mainly shoot manual until I get the cam on a gimbal then I go for auto focus. got another music vid coming and I like to use my gimbal and make sure I'm getting good focus on my subject as I move about.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

The GH series of Panasonic are no good for autofocus, you might get a it right here and there but if you are not able to repeat your shot I wouldn't trust it. You might be better of using a sony a6500 if you want better autofocus.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Here is a Samsung NX1 vs GH4 auto Focus comparison... The samsung is beast on the focus compared to the GH4.


Here is the GH4 with some setting tweaks to make the auto focus better.


Some GH4 Low Light shots

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

So after all of this fellas I decided on a Samsung NX1. It is a beast of a camera. The only issue is it is discontinued and you can only find it used. But that may work out to my advantage as i have a certain budget I want to stay in. I may be able to get it for aroung $1k with lens. So the hunt is on...

Samsung discontinued their NX1 because of patent infringement. If you do the research on this cam it is a beast and would compare to the GH5 but kill in auto focus. It would be the perfect gimbal cam for me at the moment.

Re: What's Your Second Cam To The LS300
 

Looks like a nice cam, but you'll need a whole new set of lenses for it. Also, it will take a lot of power to edit with those h265 files (unless you're recording external?) Keep us updated though!