Persistent signal *drop-outs* at DVinfo.net

Alex Raskin · September 25th, 2003, 08:41 PM

OK, my experience with both GR-HD1 and JY-HD10, similar statistics:

- intermittent signal dropouts about once in 5 to 10 minutes of the taping.

I'm recording in HD mode, 1280x720, 30p.

Shaking the camera immediately leads to a drop-out, but under normal conditions - walking, tripod-mounted, hand-held in car - the drop-outs still occur intermittently as described above.

This is very strange as my Sony VX2000 simply never had a signal drop-out.

I tried 2 JVC-brand tapes (M-DV60ME and M-DV60PRO) and Sony Excellence (DVM60EXL).

Although supposedly the gear must be optimized for the *same brand* tapes... JVS tapes were statistically the worst, while Sony worked best - but still exhibited slight drop-outs (sudden blocky lines/areas of the image, lasting approx. 0.5 seconds).

Both cameras were brand new.

Is it a weak transport issue? Too high a data rate for the "normal" miniDV tapes? Something else?

Please describe your experience with these cams and drop-outs.

Thanks!

Eric Bilodeau · September 25th, 2003, 10:11 PM

Well it's certainly worth investigating. I experienced no such thing on the HD10 I worked with...

Darren Kelly · September 25th, 2003, 10:16 PM

I saw a drop out during some testing, but we rewound the tape and tried to find it again and was not able. We took this as a momentary head clog.

I would try the head cleaner that came with the camera, and see if it happens again.

Hope thishelps

DBK

Matthew Phillips · September 26th, 2003, 12:13 AM

I have had that same problem when shooting with a Sony PD150. I just cleaned the heads in the camera and the problem solved. Good Luck.

Matt

Alex Raskin · September 26th, 2003, 03:42 PM

Matthew, your PD150 was brand new at the time?

Is it feasible that on 2 of my cameras, brand new heads already need abrasive cleaning?

Please advise.

Steve Mullen · September 26th, 2003, 04:04 PM

It's a MiniDV transport and tape.

So look at the usual suspects.

I had no problem with Sony DVCAM tape.

Alex Raskin · September 26th, 2003, 04:25 PM

Steve, which tape do you use?

On the web, I found Sony mini DVCAM PDVM-40 (or 32, number indicates length of run in minutes.)

Is this what you use with no drop-outs?

Darren Kelly · September 26th, 2003, 04:32 PM

Just clean the heads. You don't need to buy expensive tape.

Sony, Fuji, JVC tape it will be fine.

DBK

Mike Eby · September 26th, 2003, 07:34 PM

I don't think I have run my camera for single shots longer than a few minutes. I will try it and report back.

Mike

Jay Nemeth · September 27th, 2003, 12:13 AM

In playing back 240 minutes of material ( 4 tapes ) for our short, I have seen only one dropout. It also was not repeatable and was probably a fleck of oxide on a head.

I'm using TDK consumer tape. We also shook the camera and did a lot of frantic handheld work, no problems.

And the bit rate is actually lower than DV, not higher.

Jay

Alex Raskin · September 28th, 2003, 01:28 PM

Thank you all for your persistent suggestions to clean the cam's heads.

I was *wrongly* under impression that this should be no issue with a brand new camera.

Again, wrong!

Ran a cleaning tape for 10 seconds. And now...

Drop-outs? What drop-outs?

Of course, I will need more tests, but already a 30-minute run without a single problem. Before cleaning, I'd have at least 3 drop-outs in that time.

Many thanks to all who was persistant in suggesting that I simply used a head cleaner. Too bad they don't make one for human heads, I probably need it! :)

September 25th, 2003, 08:41 PM	#1
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Persistent signal drop-outs OK, my experience with both GR-HD1 and JY-HD10, similar statistics: - intermittent signal dropouts about once in 5 to 10 minutes of the taping. I'm recording in HD mode, 1280x720, 30p. Shaking the camera immediately leads to a drop-out, but under normal conditions - walking, tripod-mounted, hand-held in car - the drop-outs still occur intermittently as described above. This is very strange as my Sony VX2000 simply never had a signal drop-out. I tried 2 JVC-brand tapes (M-DV60ME and M-DV60PRO) and Sony Excellence (DVM60EXL). Although supposedly the gear must be optimized for the same brand tapes... JVS tapes were statistically the worst, while Sony worked best - but still exhibited slight drop-outs (sudden blocky lines/areas of the image, lasting approx. 0.5 seconds). Both cameras were brand new. Is it a weak transport issue? Too high a data rate for the "normal" miniDV tapes? Something else? Please describe your experience with these cams and drop-outs. Thanks!

September 25th, 2003, 10:11 PM	#2
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Well it's certainly worth investigating. I experienced no such thing on the HD10 I worked with... __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

September 26th, 2003, 04:04 PM	#6
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	It's a MiniDV transport and tape. So look at the usual suspects. I had no problem with Sony DVCAM tape. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 26th, 2003, 07:34 PM	#9
Mike Eby Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Osceola,IN Posts: 62	Interesting I don't think I have run my camera for single shots longer than a few minutes. I will try it and report back. Mike

September 25th, 2003, 10:16 PM	#3
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	I saw a drop out during some testing, but we rewound the tape and tried to find it again and was not able. We took this as a momentary head clog. I would try the head cleaner that came with the camera, and see if it happens again. Hope thishelps DBK

September 26th, 2003, 12:13 AM	#4
Matthew Phillips New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 14	I have had that same problem when shooting with a Sony PD150. I just cleaned the heads in the camera and the problem solved. Good Luck. Matt

September 26th, 2003, 03:42 PM	#5
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Matthew, your PD150 was brand new at the time? Is it feasible that on 2 of my cameras, brand new heads already need abrasive cleaning? Please advise.

September 26th, 2003, 04:25 PM	#7
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Steve, which tape do you use? On the web, I found Sony mini DVCAM PDVM-40 (or 32, number indicates length of run in minutes.) Is this what you use with no drop-outs?

September 26th, 2003, 04:32 PM	#8
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	Just clean the heads. You don't need to buy expensive tape. Sony, Fuji, JVC tape it will be fine. DBK

September 27th, 2003, 12:13 AM	#10
Jay Nemeth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 64	In playing back 240 minutes of material ( 4 tapes ) for our short, I have seen only one dropout. It also was not repeatable and was probably a fleck of oxide on a head. I'm using TDK consumer tape. We also shook the camera and did a lot of frantic handheld work, no problems. And the bit rate is actually lower than DV, not higher. Jay

September 28th, 2003, 01:28 PM	#11
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Thank you all for your persistent suggestions to clean the cam's heads. I was wrongly under impression that this should be no issue with a brand new camera. Again, wrong! Ran a cleaning tape for 10 seconds. And now... Drop-outs? What drop-outs? Of course, I will need more tests, but already a 30-minute run without a single problem. Before cleaning, I'd have at least 3 drop-outs in that time. Many thanks to all who was persistant in suggesting that I simply used a head cleaner. Too bad they don't make one for human heads, I probably need it! :)