Component signal out?

Alex Raskin · October 12th, 2003, 05:31 PM

Guys, please remember that these cameras DO NOT output 720p via Component in Rec mode.

All this heated discussion seems to be revolving around the assumption that one can simply use HD10's Component out while recording to view/analyze color/capture 720p HD footage.

This is not going to happen, folks, as the cam's ONLY output via Component in Rec mode is 480p.

What are we discussing here?

Bottom line: if you want to monitor cam's signal in Rec mode AND in HD, Component is out of the picture (no pun intended); use FireWire instead.

How?

Please see my earlier post "Truth abouth HD10 output in REC mode". Steve Mullen commented that I'm right on all counts, check it out.

Darren Kelly · October 13th, 2003, 08:41 AM

No one is debating that the camera only outputs compoenet 480p in record mode.

What we're debating is your rant on hardware vs software.

Alex Raskin · October 13th, 2003, 09:36 AM

Martin: - I want to capture uncompressed HD video via Component out during recording, to avoid mpeg2 compression artifacts.

Alex: - Sorry, not gonna fly - these cams only output SD, not HD via Component in Record mode at this time.

Steve, Darren, Martin: - But we hate this! We already told people that they can use their real-time HD capturing systems with JVC prosumer cameras! We/they didn't accumulate our gazillion-cost, big-boys HD equipment for nothing! ...Let's shoot the messenger! Bam! Bam, bam!

Alex (crowling on the floor in the pool of his own rant, trying to hold his HD10 cam high to keep it dry): - But why... this is only the truth...

Audience: - Boo!! We can have flame wars elsewhere! Give us some useful information here! (all stand up and leave the thread).

Curtain.

(Not really - I predict that our local authorities will have to have the last word on this. Not me though - I died in the II act.)

Barry Green · October 13th, 2003, 11:43 AM

The original question was: "can I bypass MPEG2 compression by capturing the component output?"

The answer is NO. The video is not output via component during capture. You can get a realtime component output if you plug the camera via firewire into a JVC DVHS deck with component outputs, but that video will be MPEG2-compressed.

And if you use a hardware component capture card, you'll still be capturing the uncompressed MPEG2 data.

You cannot bypass the MPEG2 compression.

Martin Munthe · October 13th, 2003, 12:38 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : Martin: - I want to capture uncompressed HD video via Component out during recording, to avoid mpeg2 compression artifacts.

Alex: - Sorry, not gonna fly - these cams only output SD, not HD via Component in Record mode at this time.

Steve, Darren, Martin: - But we hate this! We already told people that they can use their real-time HD capturing systems with JVC prosumer cameras! We/they didn't accumulate our gazillion-cost, big-boys HD equipment for nothing! ...Let's shoot the messenger! Bam! Bam, bam!

Alex (crowling on the floor in the pool of his own rant, trying to hold his HD10 cam high to keep it dry): - But why... this is only the truth...

Audience: - Boo!! We can have flame wars elsewhere! Give us some useful information here! (all stand up and leave the thread).

Curtain.

(Not really - I predict that our local authorities will have to have the last word on this. Not me though - I died in the II act.) -->>>

*LOL*

You guys have answered my initial question. I know now that JVC spends developing costs on blocking the possibility to get the HD signal out to a monitor (or other video hardware) during REC just to keep things "consumer" and not to agrivate the pros. And I can understand that decision from a marketing stand point. I wonder if the upcoming HDV consumer gear will follow that same policy?

But let's destroy the myth that an uncompressed HD editing setup is a very expensive thing. Tape recorders are expensive (but you can rent those when you need them). The rest is below 10K for a complete setup. That is what you had to pay for uncompressed SD editing a year ago.

Steve Mullen · October 13th, 2003, 05:03 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Martin You guys have answered my initial question. I know now that JVC spends developing costs on blocking the possibility to get the HD signal out to a monitor (or other video hardware) during REC just to keep things "consumer" and not to agrivate the pros. . -->>>

Unmitegated BS. The CCD feeds the NTT chip directly. The NTT chip only runs half-duplex in HD.

It would have cost JVC money to ADD extra circuits to get YOU your feed. And, that would have made it more expensive for the 99.9% who have no interest in renting a HD VTR to record from a 1 CCD consumera camera. Get real!

Curtin down on Act III

Martin Munthe · October 14th, 2003, 02:49 AM

Hey Steve. No reason to be so stuck up. What's with you guys on this board? What are you protecting? Really?

Obviously I HAVE to go elsewhere to look things up on the HD10...

Bob England · October 14th, 2003, 04:45 PM

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black!

October 13th, 2003, 08:41 AM	#17
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	No one is debating that the camera only outputs compoenet 480p in record mode. What we're debating is your rant on hardware vs software. __________________ Darren Kelly

October 13th, 2003, 09:36 AM	#18
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Star Wars: Assertion of Authority Martin: - I want to capture uncompressed HD video via Component out during recording, to avoid mpeg2 compression artifacts. Alex: - Sorry, not gonna fly - these cams only output SD, not HD via Component in Record mode at this time. Steve, Darren, Martin: - But we hate this! We already told people that they can use their real-time HD capturing systems with JVC prosumer cameras! We/they didn't accumulate our gazillion-cost, big-boys HD equipment for nothing! ...Let's shoot the messenger! Bam! Bam, bam! Alex (crowling on the floor in the pool of his own rant, trying to hold his HD10 cam high to keep it dry): - But why... this is only the truth... Audience: - Boo!! We can have flame wars elsewhere! Give us some useful information here! (all stand up and leave the thread). Curtain. (Not really - I predict that our local authorities will have to have the last word on this. Not me though - I died in the II act.)

October 13th, 2003, 12:38 PM	#20
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	Re: Star Wars: Assertion of Authority <<<-- Originally posted by Alex Raskin : Martin: - I want to capture uncompressed HD video via Component out during recording, to avoid mpeg2 compression artifacts. Alex: - Sorry, not gonna fly - these cams only output SD, not HD via Component in Record mode at this time. Steve, Darren, Martin: - But we hate this! We already told people that they can use their real-time HD capturing systems with JVC prosumer cameras! We/they didn't accumulate our gazillion-cost, big-boys HD equipment for nothing! ...Let's shoot the messenger! Bam! Bam, bam! Alex (crowling on the floor in the pool of his own rant, trying to hold his HD10 cam high to keep it dry): - But why... this is only the truth... Audience: - Boo!! We can have flame wars elsewhere! Give us some useful information here! (all stand up and leave the thread). Curtain. (Not really - I predict that our local authorities will have to have the last word on this. Not me though - I died in the II act.) -->>> LOL You guys have answered my initial question. I know now that JVC spends developing costs on blocking the possibility to get the HD signal out to a monitor (or other video hardware) during REC just to keep things "consumer" and not to agrivate the pros. And I can understand that decision from a marketing stand point. I wonder if the upcoming HDV consumer gear will follow that same policy? But let's destroy the myth that an uncompressed HD editing setup is a very expensive thing. Tape recorders are expensive (but you can rent those when you need them). The rest is below 10K for a complete setup. That is what you had to pay for uncompressed SD editing a year ago. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

October 13th, 2003, 05:03 PM	#21
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: Re: Star Wars: Assertion of Authority <<<-- Originally posted by Martin You guys have answered my initial question. I know now that JVC spends developing costs on blocking the possibility to get the HD signal out to a monitor (or other video hardware) during REC just to keep things "consumer" and not to agrivate the pros. . -->>> Unmitegated BS. The CCD feeds the NTT chip directly. The NTT chip only runs half-duplex in HD. It would have cost JVC money to ADD extra circuits to get YOU your feed. And, that would have made it more expensive for the 99.9% who have no interest in renting a HD VTR to record from a 1 CCD consumera camera. Get real! Curtin down on Act III __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 14th, 2003, 02:49 AM	#22
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	Hey Steve. No reason to be so stuck up. What's with you guys on this board? What are you protecting? Really? Obviously I HAVE to go elsewhere to look things up on the HD10... __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

October 12th, 2003, 05:31 PM	#16
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Guys, please remember that these cameras DO NOT output 720p via Component in Rec mode. All this heated discussion seems to be revolving around the assumption that one can simply use HD10's Component out while recording to view/analyze color/capture 720p HD footage. This is not going to happen, folks, as the cam's ONLY output via Component in Rec mode is 480p. What are we discussing here? Bottom line: if you want to monitor cam's signal in Rec mode AND in HD, Component is out of the picture (no pun intended); use FireWire instead. How? Please see my earlier post "Truth abouth HD10 output in REC mode". Steve Mullen commented that I'm right on all counts, check it out.

October 13th, 2003, 11:43 AM	#19
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The original question was: "can I bypass MPEG2 compression by capturing the component output?" The answer is NO. The video is not output via component during capture. You can get a realtime component output if you plug the camera via firewire into a JVC DVHS deck with component outputs, but that video will be MPEG2-compressed. And if you use a hardware component capture card, you'll still be capturing the uncompressed MPEG2 data. You cannot bypass the MPEG2 compression.

October 14th, 2003, 04:45 PM	#23
Bob England Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 59	Now that's the pot calling the kettle black!