JY-HD10U vs DVX100 ? Round2

Heath McKnight · January 29th, 2004, 05:47 PM

Agus,

You really have to think to yourself what's the best. If they want your show, you may have to buy which ever camera best suits your need. If you depend on us, you'll never get a definitive answer.

You've read the pros and cons of both cameras, but the ultimate decision is up to you. I certainly hope you've read reviews by doing searches online for them, right? Just type HD10 Review or DVX100 Review into google.com and you're set.

Again, the decision is ultimately up to you.

Good luck!

heath

Aaron Koolen · January 29th, 2004, 05:58 PM

Barry, good to hear that there's no problems. I was going by other MPG2 streams I've pulled into Vegas. Thumbnails take along time to show. Playback start time is delayed. The whole system, with what I tried was not responsive at all. If it's different with HD10U footage then great!

Aaron

David Newman · January 29th, 2004, 06:14 PM

Aaron,

It is not easier with HDV, decoding and editing MPEG is aways a CPU Load. It is harder infact than your previous MPEG experiences because the resolution is now higher. Barry is correct you can edit in Vegas, if you have enough CPU power the single streams should be smooth and the transitions will not stutter too much. It is because MPEG is so inefficient for editing that CineForm has a different approach. We have two products for making HD (and HDV) editing easier. Connect HD accelerates Vegas for up to 3 times improvement in editing speed and preview performance over MPEG editing ($499.) Aspect HD for true real-time editing under Adobe Premiere which a performance 6-8 times faster than Adobe running uncompressed or HUFFYUV ($1200.) Check out cineform.com for details.

David Kennett · January 30th, 2004, 03:56 PM

If you've read some of my other posts, you realize that I'm probably the only person alive that actually EDITS with the KDDI-JVC software. That program appears to edit in native m2t format. It is possible to display a strip which identifies each frame type. When you look at rendered edits, you usually find shortened GOPs around edits (and other effects). It is not necessary to have full 6 frame GOPs, since a header in each sets the parameter for that GOP. By taking this approach, it is not necessary to re-render every group in your show. This makes things much faster. My rendering time is just a little longer than real time with my P3-900 (with minimal effects). Thats for M2T - MPG2 NTSC is about 10 times as long - ugh!

I keep looking for a GOOD program that does native M2T editing. That would seem to me to be the best approach to maintain efficiency and quality - same advantantages as native DV editing.

Kevin A. Sturges · February 6th, 2004, 12:18 PM

For what this is worth, I have a DVD from ProMax that puts the DVX100 side by side with a Sony PD150. I think the purpose of the disc is to show how much more "filmic" the DVX100 is when used in a studio setting.

To my eyes when playing back the DVD on a progressive scan player into my HD system, I thought the Sony actually looked better. The colors had a much richer saturation. Having said that - neither camera is anamorphic 16/9. They had simply letterboxed the footage to make it look "like" widescreen. Also both cameras had all the usual SD resolution jaggies, especially smearing around reds.

I have footage from both the JVC GRD-1 and HD10U that was not shot in a professional setting, that totally blows away both of these cams.

January 29th, 2004, 05:47 PM	#16
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Agus, You really have to think to yourself what's the best. If they want your show, you may have to buy which ever camera best suits your need. If you depend on us, you'll never get a definitive answer. You've read the pros and cons of both cameras, but the ultimate decision is up to you. I certainly hope you've read reviews by doing searches online for them, right? Just type HD10 Review or DVX100 Review into google.com and you're set. Again, the decision is ultimately up to you. Good luck! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 29th, 2004, 05:58 PM	#17
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Barry, good to hear that there's no problems. I was going by other MPG2 streams I've pulled into Vegas. Thumbnails take along time to show. Playback start time is delayed. The whole system, with what I tried was not responsive at all. If it's different with HD10U footage then great! Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 29th, 2004, 06:14 PM	#18
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Aaron, It is not easier with HDV, decoding and editing MPEG is aways a CPU Load. It is harder infact than your previous MPEG experiences because the resolution is now higher. Barry is correct you can edit in Vegas, if you have enough CPU power the single streams should be smooth and the transitions will not stutter too much. It is because MPEG is so inefficient for editing that CineForm has a different approach. We have two products for making HD (and HDV) editing easier. Connect HD accelerates Vegas for up to 3 times improvement in editing speed and preview performance over MPEG editing ($499.) Aspect HD for true real-time editing under Adobe Premiere which a performance 6-8 times faster than Adobe running uncompressed or HUFFYUV ($1200.) Check out cineform.com for details. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

January 30th, 2004, 03:56 PM	#19
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	If you've read some of my other posts, you realize that I'm probably the only person alive that actually EDITS with the KDDI-JVC software. That program appears to edit in native m2t format. It is possible to display a strip which identifies each frame type. When you look at rendered edits, you usually find shortened GOPs around edits (and other effects). It is not necessary to have full 6 frame GOPs, since a header in each sets the parameter for that GOP. By taking this approach, it is not necessary to re-render every group in your show. This makes things much faster. My rendering time is just a little longer than real time with my P3-900 (with minimal effects). Thats for M2T - MPG2 NTSC is about 10 times as long - ugh! I keep looking for a GOOD program that does native M2T editing. That would seem to me to be the best approach to maintain efficiency and quality - same advantantages as native DV editing. __________________ Dave

February 6th, 2004, 12:18 PM	#20
Kevin A. Sturges Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	For what this is worth, I have a DVD from ProMax that puts the DVX100 side by side with a Sony PD150. I think the purpose of the disc is to show how much more "filmic" the DVX100 is when used in a studio setting. To my eyes when playing back the DVD on a progressive scan player into my HD system, I thought the Sony actually looked better. The colors had a much richer saturation. Having said that - neither camera is anamorphic 16/9. They had simply letterboxed the footage to make it look "like" widescreen. Also both cameras had all the usual SD resolution jaggies, especially smearing around reds. I have footage from both the JVC GRD-1 and HD10U that was not shot in a professional setting, that totally blows away both of these cams.