HD1U and HC-1 both $2000- so which?

[Ken Hodson]

Steve- I would recomend Steve Mullens HD1/10 shooting guide. It will really help you with the leaning curve. Good luck.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Ken Hodson

"and lacks manual controls of both aperature and shutter (at the same time)."

Exact same situation with the Sony cam.

Your quite correct! The Sony manual clearly states that Shutter-speed can NOT be set unless the camera is AE mode! That because, like the JVC, the camera works in "shutter-priority" mode. The HDC1's iris cannot close beyond f4.8 because of the nature of the CMOS chip. Therfore, it must be free to zap up the shutter-speed to get a proper exposure!

I find it ironic that Sony users who bashed the JVC HDV camcorders are quite silent about about the same limitations in the HC1!

What if you don't want the shutter-speed to increase too much? The solution is an ND filter.

Gee whiz, that's the same solution we use on our JVC cameras to force the shutter-speed down to 1/60th or less!

Adding an ND filter to the HC1 is a pain -- as it is with the HD1/HD10. So both are a pain to shoot with when you move in and out of lighting conditions.

But at least we get great images (not a Sony DV look) that are progresive with a resolution almost equal to the FX1/Z1! And, we get 2X more streams/effects when we edit.

I see no reason to sell my JVC.

However, if you a point-and-shoot video person, you'll be happier (until you edit) shooting with the HC1 in AE. (Where with both cameras you can adjust and lock exposure.) But, if you want film-like results, you'll get more from the JVCs.

By the way, although I see the HD1 EE I doubt many viewers will -- so the HD1 is a bargin.

[Steve Nunez]

I'm finding that selecting a HDV camera wont get me the "perfect" solution, and will involve sacrifices no matter what:

~If I go the JVC route- I get progressive 720 which is great for virtually every application- unlike interlaced which looks good on TV sets but not ideal for LCD's, monitors, plasma's etc- the downside to JVC's are thier cameras don't feature full manual controls, often needing ND filters etc to achieve the desired look/exposure- unless I go the HD100 route (which isn't completely out of the question- but is a bit expensive for my hobby use- purchase pending~~)
Another JVC benefit is that most NLE's and computers are having better results editing progressive HDV as opposed to interlaced which requires more pc/Mac computing power (I have the best Mac currently available- so power isn't really a point for me at the moment- but progressive needs less computing power and is a definite plus right now.)
Progressive also lends itself well to the current distribution/archive capabilities and downsamples nicely for current DVD standards......HD-DVD's or forthcoming Blue-Ray will be able to play the progressive footage perfectly. And Progressive also can be made to look more "filmic" allot easier than interlaced video- just another progressive plus to the JVC implimentation of the HDV spec!

~If I go the Sony route, I'm stuck with interlaced video. But- the Sony's are more feature intensive- work better as "run & gun" and "automatic" cameras than the JVC's and allow for allot more manual control- not to mention a better build quality and a newer technology- the cameras on a whole are just better units (better displays etc.) I'm finding the FX-1 to be the most alluring considering it's price-point and feature-set....I just really hate the interlaced video only!!!! The Sony would likely allow me to capture scenes and footage just the way I'd want to at the expense of NLE difficulties in editing.........no matter what choice we make as buyers we'll have to weigh the advantges/disadvantages and select those we're ready to accept or reject.

The JVC HD100 is the best solution for me and probably most of the HDV shooters on these forums but at the cost and cons of the unit presently. It has a spectacular form factor and bristles with HDV technology no other camera has at it's price-point. There are posts already stating it's video looks very similar to the current HD10U and hasn't impressed everyone as thoroughly as they had hoped- highlight clipping and a green cast to shaded areas have already been observed- although some feel these shortcomings are a result of the lens bundled with the camera....all in all it's still the camera to beat (IMHO.)

So it's either the JVC HD100 or Sony FX-1.......$5,500 and get the best camera for my purposes or $3,200 and accept the interlaced video and deal with it in post...........decisions, decisions.....I'll let you guys know which way I go when IT happens.

(Note: I may just find a used HD10U or HD1 and experiment a bit- just another possibility, but I prefer new....the HC1 is out of the question for me- I wont accept interlaced video and it's hassels with NLE's for it's feature-set at $2000- I'd prefer a 10U at $2000 or less, even if it's used!)

Thanks for reading my mumblings- thoughts and comments appreciated.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

I get progressive 720 which is great for virtually every application.

I stopped following the HD10 awhile ago, but I thought people said you couldn't get acceptable 24p from 30p (if that matters to you).

FWIW, The Z1 can give you 480/30p and 576/25p but only through its component output, not firewire. The A1E does 576/25p and the A1U does 480/30p. AFAIK, the FX1 doesn't do component video downconversion. Looks like there's a component > firewire capture box now from ADS for about $160: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=49270

Of course these options will only give you standard definition. You could use something like DVFilm Maker with the Sony HDV cameras to create 24p or 30 in post, at the expense of render time.

[Steve Nunez]

Boyd,
for me personally, 24P from 30P isn't an issue- I doubt if anything I'd ever do would ever get transferred to film....30P is fine for my uses.

I didn't know that about the Z1- and I think it's awesome that it has that capability- but I insist in Firewire transafer for NLE use, I don't want to have to buy additional cards or converters to get the footage into the Mac. The Z1 is basically a "pro" version of the FX-1 and shoots video pretty much the same way- so I didn't really consider the Z1 for purchase. If I'm going to spend $5000 or so- the HD100 would be my choice-but the Z1 does have that impressive component out- nice to know!

More render time just plain s__ks! Progressive is definitely the way to go in my opinion.......the FX1 stays alive in my book because of it's feature Vs. price.....it also looks killer (just a personal liking) but I like the looks of the HD100 even more- but it might attract too much attention at times.

These are interesting times for HDV buyers/owners- I think allot is going to happen with HDV in the next few years.....if the software and computers can make workflows that allow editing as easily as DV (like Apple says) then HDV will be the next consumer video hit!

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

The Z1 is basically a "pro" version of the FX-1 and shoots video pretty much the same way- so I didn't really consider the Z1 for purchase.

Yes, the chips, lens and primary controls are all the same. There are a lot of nice upgrades on the Z1, but it's hard to beat the FX1's price. However there's one Z1 feature that is often glossed over: it shoots PAL and NTSC in addition to HDV. I need to work with PAL from time to time, and that's the real reason I got the Z1, not the HDV capability.

The JVC does look cool, but some of the negative comments being posted are a little worrisome. But I think it's much too early to rush to judgement on a new model.

[Steve Nunez]

Yeah- I'm keeping an eye on the comments on the HD100 myself- I'm waiting to see what a user with a non-standard lens has to say.

[David Kennett]

Steve,

I pretty much agree with your disertation on HDV. I have not noticed the green cast you mention on my 2 year old HD10. I have always thought Sony always had just a little better picture that comparable camers. I think they blew it on 1080i only. One other factor - the JVC data stream is completely compatable with broadcast TS, and can be firewire copied to D-VHS.

ANY HDV option is better than standard DV IMHO.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

I insist in Firewire transafer for NLE use, I don't want to have to buy additional cards or converters

Well then you'll probably not be happy to learn that FCP 5 doesn't seem to be capable of editing footage from the HD100 without a third party solution...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=49136

[Steve Nunez]

David, can the JVC D-VHS copy HD video from the FX1? How about the new HD-DVD JVC recorder- will that be able to copy content from the FX1?

Boyd, you gotta be kidding, do they not use Firewire to output their HDV signal?

[Boyd Ostroff]

They use firewire, but evidently FCP 5 can't properly interpret JVC's data format which is different from Sony's. Or at least that's what I'm reading over at Apple's FCP forum.

[Steve Connor]

Other forums are reporting an FCP upgrade coming shortly to rectify the JVC issue, whether this is true or not is anyones guess!

[Dave Ferdinand]

The FX1 has been out for over a year and only recently I've started seeing clips that are really impressive.

I'm expecting the same to be true for the HD100U, not to mention it has a much wider range of manual controls.

[Graham Hickling]

Something no-one has mentioned (perhaps because it is so obvious?) is that in HD mode the HD1 is 30p, which is not at all ideal for high-motion run-and-gun shooting.

[David Kennett]

Steve,

It seems like I've seen a post somewhere saying it wouldn't work, but I would like to see something conclusive. I did discover something interesting awhille back. I could copy (firewire) an off-air D-VHS recording to HD10, but the HD10 decoder could not decode it (incompatable format message on flip-out screen). However, it would record it anyway - and dub back to the JVC30k D-VHS.

I have found out the hard way that specific combinations must be tested. There are several acceptable TS formats, but it's entirely possible to have something wrong - or marginal - that will not work with some hardware. Same way with DVDs - there's a lot of flexibility, but don't go outside the parameters.