Difference and reliability between HD1 and HD10u at DVinfo.net

Daniel Sanchez · July 20th, 2005, 12:26 PM

We are looking at purchasing two of these cameras and we are wondering if there is a big difference between the HD1 and HD10u. I have heard that the HD1 has more failures and were wondering if this is true? Is it worth the price difference to purchase the HD10u? Is the HD1 capable of producing the same quality image as the HD10u besides the edge enhancement on the HD1. Thanks and your help will be greatly appreciated.

Daniel
DDS Productions

Allen Lu · July 20th, 2005, 01:48 PM

Compared my readings of the HD10u vs the HD1

The only real difference is that the video has less edge enhancement and that the LCD on the HD10u has more pixels and comes with a mic. The HD10u has a longer warranty than the HD1. More failures, I'm not sure. They both came from the same line.

The video can be fixed in post on your NLE from the HD1 so for the extra money, to me, it was not worth it. If its the same price, buy the HD10u.

Ken Hodson · July 20th, 2005, 04:16 PM

I have not heard either way many problems with the cams.

Allen, how do you propose to get rid of EE in an NLE?

Steve Nunez · July 20th, 2005, 05:39 PM

Edge Enhancement seems like a tuff nut to fix in post......if anyone figures that one out I'm sure allot of people would be interested in the solution.

Allen Lu · July 21st, 2005, 09:19 AM

I am not able to get rid of the edge enhancement entirely but I can soften it by adjusting the gamma. I have not been looking into this further since I really want to fix this in the firmware.

Michael OKeefe · July 21st, 2005, 08:25 PM

what exactly does the edge enhancement do? is it worth the $500 or so dollars in difference?

Ken Hodson · July 21st, 2005, 09:16 PM

Edge enhancement or EE, is a non removeable feature of the lower cost consumer HD-1. It is a darkening (drawing a black line) of high contrast edges. It makes the image look sharper than it is. It is acceptable to most people or even preferred to some as it gives their home video's that pow-bam HD look. The downside is it also gives a edgy video look that many artist don't want, or want to add themselves by increasing sharpness in post.

Mike Teutsch · July 21st, 2005, 09:18 PM

Not worth a dime more, just get the HD-10U.

Mike

Dave Ferdinand · July 22nd, 2005, 12:47 PM

I own both. Only differences are:

-The Viewfinder (not LCD) resolution - the HD10U one is much better;
-The XLR inputs (2 on the HD10U, none on the HD1);
-The edge enhancement on the HD1, which isn't good but you can actually work your way around it in post on most cases, after all we're talking 1280x720 here.

If you have a low budget go for the HD1, don't be too scared because it's almost the same as it's better brother. If you can afford the HD10U though, go for it.

Dave Ferdinand · July 22nd, 2005, 01:01 PM

Little edge enhancement after post:

http://www.geocities.com/headlesspuppy/stuff/hdv2.jpg

Ken Hodson · July 22nd, 2005, 07:58 PM

Whats your main tool for minimizing EE, Dave?

Steve Nunez · July 23rd, 2005, 07:15 AM

Hey Dave F. are you thoroughly happy with your JVC's?
What sorta drawbacks have you noticed personally having used them both for awhile now?
Are you very happy with the video it produces?
Thanks Dave.

David Kennett · July 24th, 2005, 01:12 PM

In addition to the better warranty with the HD10, you get to deal with JVC Pro - not Consumer. In many cases, if you buy it with credit card, you get one year extended warranty from Visa or MC. Save all the paperwork INCLUDING monthly statement.

Dave Ferdinand · July 25th, 2005, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Nunez

Hey Dave F. are you thoroughly happy with your JVC's?
What sorta drawbacks have you noticed personally having used them both for awhile now?
Are you very happy with the video it produces?
Thanks Dave.

Steve, yes I'm very happy with the results obtained from both cameras. I haven't performed a test with both cameras side-by-side, but maybe will do when I have the time & patience.

What I dislike about both cameras is the lack of full manual control. I don't care personaly about gain, but shutter speed and aperture should be controlled simultaneously, like in my GL2.

I also don't think the camera is too bad on outdoors night shots. Here's an example, not that different from a FX1.

http://www.geocities.com/headlesspup...f/hd1night.jpg

Indoors it's pretty bad without proper lighting, don't expect PD150 or DVX100 type results. It's a 1-CCD camera after all. If, like me, you're thinking of making short films and documentaries with the camera though, you shouldn't worry too much about uncontrolled lighting/shooting conditions.

Personally I still think that the low resulotion viewfinder is the biggest drawback when comparing the two JVC cams.

Ken, I don't use any specific software, just Premiere Pro. When I work with the HD1 for DVDs, I simply down res footage and it looks great. In fact the EE probably helps making the images higher res. When wanting to use HD, I usually place a copy of the footage on a secondary track and the apply the filter 'Anti Aliasing' to it. I the use the opacity meter to regulate how much amount of blending it should do. Of course this is only effective if you footage was decent to start with. If you're shooting on an environment with high contrast (ex. sunny day with lots of shadow) I usually go for a low exposure setting to reduce the EE on over-exposed areas. There's no magic wand, but I would say that in 80-90% of my footage the EE is almost unnoticeable.

Leo Bodnar · July 26th, 2005, 05:41 AM

If I would offer the service of tuning down or even switching EE completely off on HD1, would anybody suggest logistics and expected cost for that?

I am prepared to do this for free to a couple of people to get their independent feedback as soon as the shipment is covered.

I am based in UK and it does not involve taking the camera apart. I can also revert any camera settings back to original if user wishes so afterwards.

Anybody interested?

July 20th, 2005, 12:26 PM	#1
Daniel Sanchez Tourist Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3	Difference and reliability between HD1 and HD10u We are looking at purchasing two of these cameras and we are wondering if there is a big difference between the HD1 and HD10u. I have heard that the HD1 has more failures and were wondering if this is true? Is it worth the price difference to purchase the HD10u? Is the HD1 capable of producing the same quality image as the HD10u besides the edge enhancement on the HD1. Thanks and your help will be greatly appreciated. Daniel DDS Productions

July 20th, 2005, 04:16 PM	#3
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I have not heard either way many problems with the cams. Allen, how do you propose to get rid of EE in an NLE? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 20th, 2005, 05:39 PM	#4
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Edge Enhancement seems like a tuff nut to fix in post......if anyone figures that one out I'm sure allot of people would be interested in the solution. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

July 21st, 2005, 09:16 PM	#7
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Edge enhancement or EE, is a non removeable feature of the lower cost consumer HD-1. It is a darkening (drawing a black line) of high contrast edges. It makes the image look sharper than it is. It is acceptable to most people or even preferred to some as it gives their home video's that pow-bam HD look. The downside is it also gives a edgy video look that many artist don't want, or want to add themselves by increasing sharpness in post. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 21st, 2005, 09:18 PM	#8
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Not worth a dime more, just get the HD-10U. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

July 20th, 2005, 01:48 PM	#2
Allen Lu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 65	Compared my readings of the HD10u vs the HD1 The only real difference is that the video has less edge enhancement and that the LCD on the HD10u has more pixels and comes with a mic. The HD10u has a longer warranty than the HD1. More failures, I'm not sure. They both came from the same line. The video can be fixed in post on your NLE from the HD1 so for the extra money, to me, it was not worth it. If its the same price, buy the HD10u.

July 21st, 2005, 09:19 AM	#5
Allen Lu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 65	I am not able to get rid of the edge enhancement entirely but I can soften it by adjusting the gamma. I have not been looking into this further since I really want to fix this in the firmware.

July 21st, 2005, 08:25 PM	#6
Michael OKeefe Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hudson, NH Posts: 53	what exactly does the edge enhancement do? is it worth the $500 or so dollars in difference?

July 22nd, 2005, 12:47 PM	#9
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	I own both. Only differences are: -The Viewfinder (not LCD) resolution - the HD10U one is much better; -The XLR inputs (2 on the HD10U, none on the HD1); -The edge enhancement on the HD1, which isn't good but you can actually work your way around it in post on most cases, after all we're talking 1280x720 here. If you have a low budget go for the HD1, don't be too scared because it's almost the same as it's better brother. If you can afford the HD10U though, go for it. __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

July 22nd, 2005, 01:01 PM	#10
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	Little edge enhancement after post: http://www.geocities.com/headlesspuppy/stuff/hdv2.jpg __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

July 22nd, 2005, 07:58 PM	#11
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Whats your main tool for minimizing EE, Dave? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 23rd, 2005, 07:15 AM	#12
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Hey Dave F. are you thoroughly happy with your JVC's? What sorta drawbacks have you noticed personally having used them both for awhile now? Are you very happy with the video it produces? Thanks Dave. __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

July 24th, 2005, 01:12 PM	#13
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	In addition to the better warranty with the HD10, you get to deal with JVC Pro - not Consumer. In many cases, if you buy it with credit card, you get one year extended warranty from Visa or MC. Save all the paperwork INCLUDING monthly statement. __________________ Dave

July 26th, 2005, 05:41 AM	#15
Leo Bodnar Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 26	If I would offer the service of tuning down or even switching EE completely off on HD1, would anybody suggest logistics and expected cost for that? I am prepared to do this for free to a couple of people to get their independent feedback as soon as the shipment is covered. I am based in UK and it does not involve taking the camera apart. I can also revert any camera settings back to original if user wishes so afterwards. Anybody interested?