JVC HD100- Slow motion/ Music video at DVinfo.net

Simon Heymans · September 3rd, 2007, 05:55 AM

Hi everyone,
I know this has been discussed before however I have a small issue and I would need your lights!

I am planning a music video in two weeks. The whole video will be in slow motion: part of it will need synch lip where you see the lips moving at normal speed along w/ the song and the actor moving slowly (cf. J.Blunt 1973/ Coldplay Yellow). The master will in 25p. I would like to shoot in HDV first and downrez after if possible.

So what are my options:

1) For the parts where I don't need to synch lip: shoot HDV-SD50p or HDV 25p? Does it make a big difference when slowing down to 50% speed having HDV 25p? Loss of quality? Because 50p is in SD so whith CC the picture might suffer?!

2) For the parts where synch lip is needed: I would need the singer to sing at twice the normal speed so I can slow down after to 50% speed. Same question: shoot HDV-SD50p or HDV 25p?
My issue here is that it's very very difficult for the singer to sing properly at twice the normal speed. I have tried (I am not a singer of course but still) and I think it's achievable at 150% (50% faster than normal speed) instead of 200% (twice the normal speed).

So if I we decide to play the song at 150% at what rate should I shoot? Doing a little math it would be 37.5 fps but the JVC can only record at 30p, 50p!
Any advices?

I was wondering how James Blunt managed to do it in his new single 1973 or Coldplay in their first hit "Yellow"!! I know they can crank the camera at any speed rate but still singing properly at twice the speed is a big challenge!

Thanks
Simon

Stephen L. Noe · September 3rd, 2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Heymans

Hi everyone,
I know this has been discussed before however I have a small issue and I would need your lights!

I am planning a music video in two weeks. The whole video will be in slow motion: part of it will need synch lip where you see the lips moving at normal speed along w/ the song and the actor moving slowly (cf. J.Blunt 1973/ Coldplay Yellow). The master will in 25p. I would like to shoot in HDV first and downrez after if possible.

So what are my options:

1) For the parts where I don't need to synch lip: shoot HDV-SD50p or HDV 25p? Does it make a big difference when slowing down to 50% speed having HDV 25p? Loss of quality? Because 50p is in SD so whith CC the picture might suffer?!

2) For the parts where synch lip is needed: I would need the singer to sing at twice the normal speed so I can slow down after to 50% speed. Same question: shoot HDV-SD50p or HDV 25p?
My issue here is that it's very very difficult for the singer to sing properly at twice the normal speed. I have tried (I am not a singer of course but still) and I think it's achievable at 150% (50% faster than normal speed) instead of 200% (twice the normal speed).

So if I we decide to play the song at 150% at what rate should I shoot? Doing a little math it would be 37.5 fps but the JVC can only record at 30p, 50p!
Any advices?

I was wondering how James Blunt managed to do it in his new single 1973 or Coldplay in their first hit "Yellow"!! I know they can crank the camera at any speed rate but still singing properly at twice the speed is a big challenge!

Thanks
Simon

You should shoot the entire thing in 50p. Your losses in video resolution will be far overcome by the smooth slow motion you'll get from 50p. I've shot 50p and uprezed to HD and have been very happy with the results.

have fun and keep shooting!

Marc Colemont · September 3rd, 2007, 03:28 PM

Hi Simon,

Slowing down to get back to 100% in your NLE will work fine.
In AE it even get's better with the time-warp function.

Regards from another Belgian Guy.

Jack Walker · September 3rd, 2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Heymans

My issue here is that it's very very difficult for the singer to sing properly at twice the normal speed. I have tried (I am not a singer of course but still) and I think it's achievable at 150% (50% faster than normal speed) instead of 200% (twice the normal speed).

So if I we decide to play the song at 150% at what rate should I shoot? Doing a little math it would be 37.5 fps but the JVC can only record at 30p, 50p!
Any advices?Thanks
Simon

Did you try it by taping yourself at double speed lip synching to the recording and slowing down in the NLE? If so, what didn't come out right? What didn't look right. What was difficult to do?

Otherwise, if you didn't try it this way, I think it will be easier than you think. When the singers are going at double speed, they may not make exactly the same expressions as at normal speed, but when it's slowed down they will look different anyway, and it's doubtful anyone could tell that if the tape were sped up it wouldn't look exactly like it would if it were sung at normal speed (and what difference would it make anyway).

But more to the point, if you want 50% motion lip synced, it's up to the performers to perform it so that can be done. That's their job... just like it's up to an actor to cry on cue, or find some trick to make it work.

I suggest giving the singers (and musicians) CDs with the sped up track as soon as possible and let them practice. If one of them says, "Oh that's so hard to do..." you can tell him or her, "Don't worry, the parts with you that don't look right, we'll just cut out." I guarantee they'll be able to do it on taping day.

Phil Balsdon · September 3rd, 2007, 06:19 PM

Although shot on film this Eskimo Joe clip was shot at about 50% increase over normal speed.
http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/eskimo_joe_liar.html
Speakers were placed in the surrounding forest for the singer to mime to the audio track played back at an appropriate increase in the speed. The miming is not perfect but is acceptable because of the slowed image. It was also helped by the singer being able to turn away from camera or be out of shot in what is a single shot steadicam move for the entire clip.
I think the artist(s) you are filming will really need to practice the mime as much as possible to the speeded up track, it's not a natural performance when they've spent so much time performing and recording at the normal speed. They may need even to stop listening to the normal recording for a while.

Simon Heymans · September 4th, 2007, 01:58 AM

Hi everyone,
Thanks a lot for the advices.

So I will shoot HD-SD50p, edit in an NLE, cc and slow down in AE using timewarp (don;t know about this effect- I set duration to 50% usually).

I will ask the singers to sing at twice the speed, if James Blunt or Coldplay can do it I am sure they can do it if they want to be rock stars ;)

Thanks for your advices but if you have more don't hesitate to give me more!

Ps: I taped myself singing at twice the speed and even for a song I know pretty well it's very hard but ok I am not a singer :)

Jemore Santos · September 4th, 2007, 04:56 AM

Hey Phil did you Steadi-Cam that? You were using our SR2 Camera (Panavisions) camera right? Are you still doing your courses?

Tim Dashwood · September 4th, 2007, 01:41 PM

Here's a sample (12.8MB - "Save link as"):
http://www.TimDashwood.com/.Movies/E...Night-H264.mov

and here's my method (podcast #3):
http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_podcast.html

I use 60P and conform to 24, which is a 250% speed increase for playback. The girl in that above example had only practiced for about a day. The song is also fairly slow tempo, so 50P conformed to 25P (200%) might be easier on the performer for a faster song.

David Scattergood · October 11th, 2007, 06:39 AM

Might struggle to use this method on such styles of music such as 'gabba'. 'nu-rave', 'dubstep' 'grime and bass' (and artists such as Aphex Twin/Sqaurepusher...) etc - 200bpm might be hard to pull off at 400bpm etc.
I can see it being relatively straight forward on the 'balladesque' type artists such as Jamie Bland et al :) - most of the time the slower songs they sing will end up about around the same speed as your usual fast tempo 'pop hit'?

I'll give it a whirl this week - this technique I'm sure, is a good string to your bow...if that's the correct idiom...

September 3rd, 2007, 05:55 AM	#1
Simon Heymans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Brussels - Belgium Posts: 53	JVC HD100- Slow motion/ Music video Hi everyone, I know this has been discussed before however I have a small issue and I would need your lights! I am planning a music video in two weeks. The whole video will be in slow motion: part of it will need synch lip where you see the lips moving at normal speed along w/ the song and the actor moving slowly (cf. J.Blunt 1973/ Coldplay Yellow). The master will in 25p. I would like to shoot in HDV first and downrez after if possible. So what are my options: 1) For the parts where I don't need to synch lip: shoot HDV-SD50p or HDV 25p? Does it make a big difference when slowing down to 50% speed having HDV 25p? Loss of quality? Because 50p is in SD so whith CC the picture might suffer?! 2) For the parts where synch lip is needed: I would need the singer to sing at twice the normal speed so I can slow down after to 50% speed. Same question: shoot HDV-SD50p or HDV 25p? My issue here is that it's very very difficult for the singer to sing properly at twice the normal speed. I have tried (I am not a singer of course but still) and I think it's achievable at 150% (50% faster than normal speed) instead of 200% (twice the normal speed). So if I we decide to play the song at 150% at what rate should I shoot? Doing a little math it would be 37.5 fps but the JVC can only record at 30p, 50p! Any advices? I was wondering how James Blunt managed to do it in his new single 1973 or Coldplay in their first hit "Yellow"!! I know they can crank the camera at any speed rate but still singing properly at twice the speed is a big challenge! Thanks Simon __________________ Simon Heymans http://www.vimeo.com/simonheymans

September 4th, 2007, 01:58 AM	#6
Simon Heymans Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Brussels - Belgium Posts: 53	Hi everyone, Thanks a lot for the advices. So I will shoot HD-SD50p, edit in an NLE, cc and slow down in AE using timewarp (don;t know about this effect- I set duration to 50% usually). I will ask the singers to sing at twice the speed, if James Blunt or Coldplay can do it I am sure they can do it if they want to be rock stars ;) Thanks for your advices but if you have more don't hesitate to give me more! Ps: I taped myself singing at twice the speed and even for a song I know pretty well it's very hard but ok I am not a singer :) __________________ Simon Heymans http://www.vimeo.com/simonheymans

September 4th, 2007, 04:56 AM	#7
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	Hey Phil did you Steadi-Cam that? You were using our SR2 Camera (Panavisions) camera right? Are you still doing your courses? __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

September 4th, 2007, 01:41 PM	#8
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Here's a sample (12.8MB - "Save link as"): http://www.TimDashwood.com/.Movies/E...Night-H264.mov and here's my method (podcast #3): http://www.lafcpug.org/nab_podcast.html I use 60P and conform to 24, which is a 250% speed increase for playback. The girl in that above example had only practiced for about a day. The song is also fairly slow tempo, so 50P conformed to 25P (200%) might be easier on the performer for a faster song. __________________ Tim Dashwood

September 3rd, 2007, 03:28 PM	#3
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Hi Simon, Slowing down to get back to 100% in your NLE will work fine. In AE it even get's better with the time-warp function. Regards from another Belgian Guy.

September 3rd, 2007, 06:19 PM	#5
Phil Balsdon Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 91	Although shot on film this Eskimo Joe clip was shot at about 50% increase over normal speed. http://www.steadi-onfilms.com.au/eskimo_joe_liar.html Speakers were placed in the surrounding forest for the singer to mime to the audio track played back at an appropriate increase in the speed. The miming is not perfect but is acceptable because of the slowed image. It was also helped by the singer being able to turn away from camera or be out of shot in what is a single shot steadicam move for the entire clip. I think the artist(s) you are filming will really need to practice the mime as much as possible to the speeded up track, it's not a natural performance when they've spent so much time performing and recording at the normal speed. They may need even to stop listening to the normal recording for a while.

October 11th, 2007, 06:39 AM	#9
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Might struggle to use this method on such styles of music such as 'gabba'. 'nu-rave', 'dubstep' 'grime and bass' (and artists such as Aphex Twin/Sqaurepusher...) etc - 200bpm might be hard to pull off at 400bpm etc. I can see it being relatively straight forward on the 'balladesque' type artists such as Jamie Bland et al :) - most of the time the slower songs they sing will end up about around the same speed as your usual fast tempo 'pop hit'? I'll give it a whirl this week - this technique I'm sure, is a good string to your bow...if that's the correct idiom...