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-   -   Shooting 1/30th shutter (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-gy-hd-series-camera-systems/102736-shooting-1-30th-shutter.html)

Scott Jaco September 3rd, 2007 10:05 AM

Shooting 1/30th shutter
 
Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.

The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting.

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!

Eric Gulbransen September 3rd, 2007 10:36 AM

Glad that worked out for you Scott. Maybe you could post a clip? I've got a wedding this Friday, outdoors, at night as well..

Eric Darling September 3rd, 2007 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco (Post 738567)
I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!

That's been my experience, too. I use the HD-100, so no 60fps mode... I figure if the camera is resolving 30 fps progressively, shooting with a 1/30 shutter shouldn't matter. Of course, if you're in DV-I mode, I would imagine it would make a difference, since that's 60i.

Laszlo Horvath September 3rd, 2007 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco (Post 738567)
Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.

The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting.

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!

I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo

Scott Jaco September 4th, 2007 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Darling (Post 738597)
I figure if the camera is resolving 30 fps progressively, shooting with a 1/30 shutter shouldn't matter.

Don't forget, the HD100 is a 60p camera (via component analog output) which would explain the 1/60th stock preset.

Greg Boston September 4th, 2007 08:21 AM

Shooting 30P with 1/30 shutter can buy you some low light sensitivity. But motion blur can become a problem with the slower shutter speed. This will be most obvious on the long end of the lens where subject movement is magnified. Ironically, close up work is where you need the extra sensitivity to compensate for the light loss due to zooming in.

-gb-

Jon Jaschob September 4th, 2007 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath (Post 738721)
I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo

This footage looks great, do you remember your lens and camera settings?
I don't see any issues with motion blur.
Thanks,
Jon

Laszlo Horvath September 4th, 2007 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Jaschob (Post 739089)
This footage looks great, do you remember your lens and camera settings?
I don't see any issues with motion blur.
Thanks,
Jon

The camera just arrived a week before this wedding.. That time I didn't know any trick of this camera, so everything was factory setup for HD30 recording. The lens was a stock 16x. The church was a bit dark, so we decide to try the 30 shutter speed. We can risk with this, because we recorded the wedding with two Sony DSR-300a so this camera was there only for try it in real wedding, in real different situations. The footages was so nice, the couple ask me to edit for them as a single camera footage for extra money. I didn't charged them for that DVD.

About the motion blur, I never see one, but much more experienced filmmakers said on this Forum we must use 60 shutter speed, but honestly I don't get it. I'm sure they right, but nobody ever really explained the reason, and show me the difference in reality.

Laszlo

Steve Oakley September 4th, 2007 10:27 PM

I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.

Laszlo Horvath September 4th, 2007 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley (Post 739385)
I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.

Well few "big name" on this Forum.

I hope they say something again about this on going question

Laszlo

Justin Ferar September 5th, 2007 11:18 AM

I think the confusion is that you really only NEED to shoot at at least 1/60th if you intend to overcrank, but even that is debatable depending your aesthetic. Otherwise I don't think anyone would go on record as calling it a necessity.

Best.

Dave Beaty September 6th, 2007 08:48 PM

I think the opinions about 1/30 or 1/24 shutter have come from the purists who suggest that those shutter speeds are impossible on film cameras.
In that arguement 1/48 or 1/60 sec or 180 degree shutter speeds can be duplicated and anything longer would be a digital camera effect.

Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful. After all, most of us are using CRT's, plasmas and LCD's in NTSC to screen our final product. The same may not be true when projecting the material at 24 fps.

So, I say, give it a go and let your eyes be the judge.

Dave B

Bill Ravens September 6th, 2007 08:55 PM

There's a phenomenon in physics known as the nyquist frequency. The nyquist frequency is, as applied to a moving shutter camera, a shutter speed twice the frame rate. The reason for wanting to maintain a shutter speed no less than the nyquist frequency is because you begin to suffer motion artifacts at less than the nyquist. If you're not shooting things that move, especially rotating wheels, you shouldn't have a problem.

In practical usage, I'm sure you've seen scenes of wagon wheels, or something like that, that appear to rotate backwards. This is the effect of nyquist, where the camera catches still images of a rotating object and when the stills are reconstructed on a motion display, the wheel appears to turn backwards.

Brian Luce September 6th, 2007 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Beaty (Post 740615)
Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful.
Dave B

I'd be interested in elaborating on this subjective assessment. So 1/30th is softer than 1/60th, what other adjectives/descriptive terms can you use? Does it look "Better"?

Others?

Chris L. Culp September 7th, 2007 05:33 PM

I have produced several pieces shot in 1/24th and 1/30th due to low light conditions and I won't do it again (unless there are intended undercranking or style reasons).

Any shot with motion will inherently be "softer" because of the extra motion blur. But, if you ask me, it's softer in a bad way that risks making a shot look out of focus and I've noticed it bringing out the HDV compression with this camera a few times. The effect is especially amplified in pans, run & gun situations and any subject with fast motion. Often times in uncontrollably low-light situations the extra exposure to your shot is worth the tradeoff of adding motion blur. But personally for me, I will avoid 1/24 and 1/30 all together.

With that said, it really comes down to what you think looks acceptable, use your own judgment I say. No one will tell you that you can't shoot in 1/30 or 1/24 because this industry by nature is a subjective one.


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