First HDV shoot at DVinfo.net

Randy Johnson · December 9th, 2007, 08:30 PM

I have a question I have the GY-HD100 I shot a friends wedding with it the other night and they talked me into shooting HD. I wasnt planning on using HD for a while because I cant even deliver on it yet but I gave it a go. After I got home I plugged my GY-HD100 into my Sharp aquos 42inch LCD and got prepared to be inpressed but I wasnt really. It was good but there was alot of noise in the image I dont know if my camera created it or my TV. plus the frame rate seemed kinda weird there was some smearing. I was shooting in HDV 720p 30 is that right? I also had "smooth motion" on. Am I expecting too much come to think of it I had the sharpness turned up pretty high because I was getting soft pictures in DV mode. Could that have been it?

Thanks
Randy

Alex Humphrey · December 9th, 2007, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Johnson

I have a question I have the GY-HD100 I shot a friends wedding with it the other night and they talked me into shooting HD. I wasnt planning on using HD for a while because I cant even deliver on it yet but I gave it a go. After I got home I plugged my GY-HD100 into my Sharp aquos 42inch LCD and got prepared to be inpressed but I wasnt really. It was good but there was alot of noise in the image I dont know if my camera created it or my TV. plus the frame rate seemed kinda weird there was some smearing. I was shooting in HDV 720p 30 is that right? I also had "smooth motion" on. Am I expecting too much come to think of it I had the sharpness turned up pretty high because I was getting soft pictures in DV mode. Could that have been it?

Thanks
Randy

1. never use "smooth motion"
2. I'm slowly turning into a born again 24p person.. so 30p is debatable to me at least
3. if shooting 24p, keep shutter at 1/48th, faster if necissary (hardly ever over 100 unless you are outside in the desert and you didn't bring extra neutral density filters.
4. Sharpness at default. if you were going to film out, then turn the sharpness down.
5. I have a JVC HD110, and while good in many situations, weddings are notoriously dimly lit, so there are better cameras out there weddings. Sony 3 chip DV or I think a Panasonic DVX100b in 24p mode would be good. Of course the JVC does a real nice job at 24p DV and gains a couple stops.

6. check your gain. was it up too high? I set my H-Gain no higher than 12 and make sure your black stretch and compress are OFF generally, especially if you have to use any gain.

just some ideas.. but to be honest, it's hard for anything to compete in dimly lit situations with say a sony 1/3 3 chip dv. they almost see in the dark and clean gain. JVC walks away from the Sony's though in controled lighting and even more in outdoor situations. (daylight)

Randy Johnson · December 9th, 2007, 10:26 PM

Thanks for the info, I sometimes shoot in 6 db gain or 12 max that stuff I expected to see noise but where it bothered me is at the church where I had plenty of light. I need to check my settings I think I may have turned the sharpness up too high.

Burk Webb · December 11th, 2007, 03:20 PM

Alex has great advice, good on ya' for shooting in HD though. There is more of a learning curve to it than a lot of people are aware of. I'm hearing a lot of "I'll start shooting HD when my clients start asking for it." By then it's too late in my opinion - HD sure can look better than standard def stuff but it can take some work getting there. Focus is much more critical, back focus of the camera is very critical (and not a lot of people are good at setting it), dealing with low light, working with progressive footage, shutter speeds, 24p, having a solid HDV editing workflow - HD is like a magnifying glass to all your screw ups and I've really had to step up my game as a shooter to get good results.

When you nail it the results can be amazing but when you blow it...it can look pretty meh. Congratulations on getting your hands dirty. Read through this forum like crazy and download a lot of the scene files, experiment and have fun.

David Scattergood · December 11th, 2007, 06:18 PM

^^ Definitely Burk.
Trouble is it's tough to back focus on the small LCD on the camera...a larger HD field monitor would come in extremely handy but at a cost.
I must admit I find it hard to make minor adjustments when using the back focus ring (even from a few feet away) on a Siemens chart...and I've got pretty good eyesight.
The Focus assist is a god send at times, although I'm half thinking of adding a mac book (pro) as a monitor (plus the added benefits of having a portable mac to view and show your material).
You're in the right place (and right hands) here though Randy...

Bill Ravens · December 11th, 2007, 07:59 PM

Not so sure I agree with most of the recommendations here.
1-don't go above 9 db gain
2-use black stretch, as needed, for low light
3-keep aperture below f/2, above f/5.6
4-smooth motion is OK for 30fps, don't use it for 24 fps
5-shutter speed =1/48 for 24 fps, 1/60 for 30 fps
6-sharpness at min
7-use Paolo Ciccone's TC3

If you don't have enough light, you'll need to light it. CCing dimly lit footage is notoriously noisy with the mpeg format

Ron Fabienke · December 11th, 2007, 10:46 PM

The back focus adjustment is indeed VITAL. With the lower rez viewfinder you never have a clue if you go soft when you pull back from being in tight to focus. Make sure you do the adjustment with the zoom on manual.....makes a difference....I learned the hard way. If you can feed the signal to a larger HD monitor & use the chart, all the better. And turn your peaking on the VF as high as it will go. I even called the factory to see if they had any way of increasing it, but no. On my DSR 300A's B&W view finder the peaking at max is more pronounced and you can just see things "snap" when in focus. This has been my biggest challenge.

The noise in low light is an issue with the HD100 and 110 a little more in my opinion than with the HD200-250. You still need on camera light for the event / wedding type shooting but the 200 seems cleaner to me than the earlier models.

Brian Luce · December 12th, 2007, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

3-keep aperture below f/2, above f/5.6

Hi Bill, there are different theories around here regarding the JVC's sweet spot. Why do you like these settings? You don't have C/A issues below f2?

David Scattergood · December 12th, 2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Fabienke

The back focus adjustment is indeed VITAL. With the lower rez viewfinder you never have a clue if you go soft when you pull back from being in tight to focus. Make sure you do the adjustment with the zoom on manual.....makes a difference....I learned the hard way. If you can feed the signal to a larger HD monitor & use the chart, all the better. And turn your peaking on the VF as high as it will go. I even called the factory to see if they had any way of increasing it, but no. On my DSR 300A's B&W view finder the peaking at max is more pronounced and you can just see things "snap" when in focus. This has been my biggest challenge.

The noise in low light is an issue with the HD100 and 110 a little more in my opinion than with the HD200-250. You still need on camera light for the event / wedding type shooting but the 200 seems cleaner to me than the earlier models.

Just checked mine and it's a couple of notches down from the peaking limit - I've just turned it to the hilt so to speak and you can really notice grain coming from (even on 0db gain).

I have no current means to get hold of a larger HD monitor (or indeed any larger monitor be it field or studio/office). So unfortunately I have to rely on the tiny LCD and focus adjust (though I barely touch the auto zoom so it's naturally set on manual).
Cheers Ron.

I once shot in a dimly lit restaurant (without onboard light) and it turned out like a sand blizzard such was the grain...unfortunately, as the footage was otherwise full of vitality.

Bill Ravens · December 12th, 2007, 11:52 AM

Hi Brian...

I like to keep the aperture as far open as possible to get shallow DOF. Smaller than f/5.6, while it's not the diffraction limit, the lens is off its sweet spot, which is really around f/4. Lens performance starts falling off rather quickly smaller than f/8

Randy Johnson · December 12th, 2007, 06:40 PM

Thanks for all the advice, ive already started coming up with a HD workflow. I think i will put the camera back to factory specs and start over. I have to admit the stuff looks pretty good on my 42"LCD. I never go above 12db in my line of work I need to sometime, although I have though about dragging the shutter down to 1/30 in extreme cases. Espcially if theres not much movment in the shot.

Randy

December 9th, 2007, 08:30 PM	#1
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	First HDV shoot I have a question I have the GY-HD100 I shot a friends wedding with it the other night and they talked me into shooting HD. I wasnt planning on using HD for a while because I cant even deliver on it yet but I gave it a go. After I got home I plugged my GY-HD100 into my Sharp aquos 42inch LCD and got prepared to be inpressed but I wasnt really. It was good but there was alot of noise in the image I dont know if my camera created it or my TV. plus the frame rate seemed kinda weird there was some smearing. I was shooting in HDV 720p 30 is that right? I also had "smooth motion" on. Am I expecting too much come to think of it I had the sharpness turned up pretty high because I was getting soft pictures in DV mode. Could that have been it? Thanks Randy

December 9th, 2007, 10:26 PM	#3
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Thanks for the info, I sometimes shoot in 6 db gain or 12 max that stuff I expected to see noise but where it bothered me is at the church where I had plenty of light. I need to check my settings I think I may have turned the sharpness up too high.

December 11th, 2007, 03:20 PM	#4
Burk Webb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 249	Alex has great advice, good on ya' for shooting in HD though. There is more of a learning curve to it than a lot of people are aware of. I'm hearing a lot of "I'll start shooting HD when my clients start asking for it." By then it's too late in my opinion - HD sure can look better than standard def stuff but it can take some work getting there. Focus is much more critical, back focus of the camera is very critical (and not a lot of people are good at setting it), dealing with low light, working with progressive footage, shutter speeds, 24p, having a solid HDV editing workflow - HD is like a magnifying glass to all your screw ups and I've really had to step up my game as a shooter to get good results. When you nail it the results can be amazing but when you blow it...it can look pretty meh. Congratulations on getting your hands dirty. Read through this forum like crazy and download a lot of the scene files, experiment and have fun.

December 11th, 2007, 06:18 PM	#5
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	^^ Definitely Burk. Trouble is it's tough to back focus on the small LCD on the camera...a larger HD field monitor would come in extremely handy but at a cost. I must admit I find it hard to make minor adjustments when using the back focus ring (even from a few feet away) on a Siemens chart...and I've got pretty good eyesight. The Focus assist is a god send at times, although I'm half thinking of adding a mac book (pro) as a monitor (plus the added benefits of having a portable mac to view and show your material). You're in the right place (and right hands) here though Randy...

December 11th, 2007, 07:59 PM	#6
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Not so sure I agree with most of the recommendations here. 1-don't go above 9 db gain 2-use black stretch, as needed, for low light 3-keep aperture below f/2, above f/5.6 4-smooth motion is OK for 30fps, don't use it for 24 fps 5-shutter speed =1/48 for 24 fps, 1/60 for 30 fps 6-sharpness at min 7-use Paolo Ciccone's TC3 If you don't have enough light, you'll need to light it. CCing dimly lit footage is notoriously noisy with the mpeg format

December 11th, 2007, 10:46 PM	#7
Ron Fabienke Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 184	The back focus adjustment is indeed VITAL. With the lower rez viewfinder you never have a clue if you go soft when you pull back from being in tight to focus. Make sure you do the adjustment with the zoom on manual.....makes a difference....I learned the hard way. If you can feed the signal to a larger HD monitor & use the chart, all the better. And turn your peaking on the VF as high as it will go. I even called the factory to see if they had any way of increasing it, but no. On my DSR 300A's B&W view finder the peaking at max is more pronounced and you can just see things "snap" when in focus. This has been my biggest challenge. The noise in low light is an issue with the HD100 and 110 a little more in my opinion than with the HD200-250. You still need on camera light for the event / wedding type shooting but the 200 seems cleaner to me than the earlier models.

December 12th, 2007, 11:52 AM	#10
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Hi Brian... I like to keep the aperture as far open as possible to get shallow DOF. Smaller than f/5.6, while it's not the diffraction limit, the lens is off its sweet spot, which is really around f/4. Lens performance starts falling off rather quickly smaller than f/8

December 12th, 2007, 06:40 PM	#11
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Thanks for all the advice, ive already started coming up with a HD workflow. I think i will put the camera back to factory specs and start over. I have to admit the stuff looks pretty good on my 42"LCD. I never go above 12db in my line of work I need to sometime, although I have though about dragging the shutter down to 1/30 in extreme cases. Espcially if theres not much movment in the shot. Randy