Why no 720/60i? at DVinfo.net

David Gomez · April 18th, 2005, 10:53 PM

I would have seriously considered this camera if it had 720/60i. How can someone only depend on 30P? What about sports, weddings, etc?

Kevin Dooley · April 18th, 2005, 11:23 PM

There is no provision for, nor do I think any camera, that will record 720, 60i. There's a provision for 720p @ 60fps. And the JVC outputs that via the components... you just need a seperate deck of some sort, or a pretty slammin' computer to record it...

Barry Green · April 18th, 2005, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Gomez

I would have seriously considered this camera if it had 720/60i.

As Kevin said, there is no such thing as 720/60i. In 720 mode, the "reality" look is shot at 720/60p. And no, the new JVC can't record 60p, and neither could their earlier HD cam, the HD1.

However, it may be able to record 60p in standard-def. I didn't really lock down that answer, but it may be able to record 480/60p.

Quote:

How can someone only depend on 30P? What about sports, weddings, etc?

I think that's the big achilles' heel in the current implementation. Without 60p, it won't be able to do sports, reality TV, news, events, conventions, etc in the same way as we've become accustomed to them. I'm hoping they'll just implement 60p to tape anyway -- it's already part of the HDV spec.

Heath McKnight · April 19th, 2005, 08:40 AM

A progressive frame is actually better than an interlaced frame in some instances. I've shot some sports with the FX1 and had no problems, and I'll have fewer problems as more and more native HDV NLEs come out.

I also feel this camera is geare more towards filmmakers.

heath

David Gomez · April 19th, 2005, 10:53 PM

Well, if only someone could fit 720/60p on a mini Dv tape, but apparently, it's not possible. This might sound stupid but why not try it on a D8 tape, it seems more robust.

Steve Gibby · April 19th, 2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Without 60p, it won't be able to do sports, reality TV, news, events, conventions, etc in the same way as we've become accustomed to them. I'm hoping they'll just implement 60p to tape anyway -- it's already part of the HDV spec.

There's no doubt that for the production genres you list 60p would have been the obvious ticket. But, after seeing how effective the HD100 motion smoothing filter is at smoothing out motion in footage, I'm anxious to try the camera out at 30p with the motion filter cranked up. It just may make the camera very usable for sports, reality, and other high-motion applications. The proof will be in the testing...

David Gomez · April 19th, 2005, 11:34 PM

Wow, first I am reading about the motion filter.... there might be hope....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Gibby

There's no doubt that for the production genres you list 60p would have been the obvious ticket. But, after seeing how effective the HD100 motion smoothing filter is at smoothing out motion in footage, I'm anxious to try the camera out at 30p with the motion filter cranked up. It just may make the camera very usable for sports, reality, and other high-motion applications. The proof will be in the testing...

Barry Green · April 19th, 2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Gomez

Well, if only someone could fit 720/60p on a mini Dv tape, but apparently, it's not possible.

It should be -- it's part of the HDV specification (although still at 19mbps).

Thomas Smet · April 20th, 2005, 08:29 AM

720p at 60p would not look as good at 19Mb/s. It would be like having 720p 30p at only 9.5 Mb/s. I am sure we will only see 720p 60p when JVC comes out with the 50 Mbit version of HDV.

As for weddings I actually prefer to shoot them at 24p for lots of artisitc as well as other reasons. My clients actually like the dreamy surreal look opposed to the 10:00 news look. I hate interlaced video and I will be glad when the day comes that it is dead. I agree 60p would be nice however I do not think it would hold me back from getting this camera if I go the JVC route.

If I had to choose between only having 1080i or only having 720p at 30p I would choose 30p since it gives more options. Very few will complain about the motion with 24p or 30p but 30i is interlaced and will always be a pain.

30i will always be limted to TV. You can de-interlace 30i but it just isn't as good as 24 or 30p. 24p and 30p can be used for film production, making high quality prints from video, and 24p TV production which actually includes a lot of stuff we currently watch. Sports will be a problem but how many of us are going to be shooting Monday Night Football with this small of a camera anyways?

Joe Carney · April 20th, 2005, 08:55 AM

I agree with Heath. If you are looking for a great camera for Independent production the JVC is a great option. The new Pana not withstanding, I think the JVC will also be a more affordable option for those buying instead of renting. (Do not read this as a knock on the new HVX200, just an observation).

At this point, I honestly think the new JVC combined with a P+S Technik and the ability to use/rent 35mm primes is going to be a very attractive combo for film makers looking to go digital. It gets them into digital with much higher quality than SD DV and also lets them work with tools they already know. Plus based on the tech geeks (complement) posting in Alternate Imaging, there will be some incredible options coming from them.

This is just the first salvo from JVC. I'm actually more excited about the new HD 7000 than the new Pana. But thats just me, for what I want to do with things. I hope the Pana vs Sony vs JVC dweebs settle down.

Heath McKnight · April 20th, 2005, 09:04 AM

I agree with Joe, and no diss to the new Panny, but people in indie film production are about many things with cameras: 24p, affordability, a great lens (35mm Primes are nice) and, if possible, HD(V). Though a lot of us love the DVX100A, the lens is an issue. Even with the anamorphic adaptor and more.

heath

April 18th, 2005, 10:53 PM	#1
David Gomez Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 50	Why no 720/60i? I would have seriously considered this camera if it had 720/60i. How can someone only depend on 30P? What about sports, weddings, etc?

April 18th, 2005, 11:23 PM	#2
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	There is no provision for, nor do I think any camera, that will record 720, 60i. There's a provision for 720p @ 60fps. And the JVC outputs that via the components... you just need a seperate deck of some sort, or a pretty slammin' computer to record it... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

April 19th, 2005, 08:40 AM	#4
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	A progressive frame is actually better than an interlaced frame in some instances. I've shot some sports with the FX1 and had no problems, and I'll have fewer problems as more and more native HDV NLEs come out. I also feel this camera is geare more towards filmmakers. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 20th, 2005, 09:04 AM	#11
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I agree with Joe, and no diss to the new Panny, but people in indie film production are about many things with cameras: 24p, affordability, a great lens (35mm Primes are nice) and, if possible, HD(V). Though a lot of us love the DVX100A, the lens is an issue. Even with the anamorphic adaptor and more. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 19th, 2005, 10:53 PM	#5
David Gomez Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 50	Well, if only someone could fit 720/60p on a mini Dv tape, but apparently, it's not possible. This might sound stupid but why not try it on a D8 tape, it seems more robust.

April 20th, 2005, 08:29 AM	#9
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	720p at 60p would not look as good at 19Mb/s. It would be like having 720p 30p at only 9.5 Mb/s. I am sure we will only see 720p 60p when JVC comes out with the 50 Mbit version of HDV. As for weddings I actually prefer to shoot them at 24p for lots of artisitc as well as other reasons. My clients actually like the dreamy surreal look opposed to the 10:00 news look. I hate interlaced video and I will be glad when the day comes that it is dead. I agree 60p would be nice however I do not think it would hold me back from getting this camera if I go the JVC route. If I had to choose between only having 1080i or only having 720p at 30p I would choose 30p since it gives more options. Very few will complain about the motion with 24p or 30p but 30i is interlaced and will always be a pain. 30i will always be limted to TV. You can de-interlace 30i but it just isn't as good as 24 or 30p. 24p and 30p can be used for film production, making high quality prints from video, and 24p TV production which actually includes a lot of stuff we currently watch. Sports will be a problem but how many of us are going to be shooting Monday Night Football with this small of a camera anyways?

April 20th, 2005, 08:55 AM	#10
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	I agree with Heath. If you are looking for a great camera for Independent production the JVC is a great option. The new Pana not withstanding, I think the JVC will also be a more affordable option for those buying instead of renting. (Do not read this as a knock on the new HVX200, just an observation). At this point, I honestly think the new JVC combined with a P+S Technik and the ability to use/rent 35mm primes is going to be a very attractive combo for film makers looking to go digital. It gets them into digital with much higher quality than SD DV and also lets them work with tools they already know. Plus based on the tech geeks (complement) posting in Alternate Imaging, there will be some incredible options coming from them. This is just the first salvo from JVC. I'm actually more excited about the new HD 7000 than the new Pana. But thats just me, for what I want to do with things. I hope the Pana vs Sony vs JVC dweebs settle down.