HD-delivery discussion

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

...you know the rez for HDV is better and will mop the floor with the DVX100a.

Okay, just so we're clear about that. Seems like many reviewers prefer to side-step that fact, which is relevant to any such equipment comparisons.

The problem is, there is no delivery method for HDV unless you're going straight to HDTV broadcast or to the web (DivX, WMV or QT-H264). You can't burn an HD DVD on any device so the HDV must be downsampled to SD in order to deliver a DVD.

In case you didn't already know, you can burn HD in compressed formats like the ones you mentioned on standard red-laser DVDs, and play those on several currently shipping players. Starting this month you'll even be able to distribute full-quality HDV that way using the JVC HD DVD player, which retails for $399. This isn't a particularly elegant solution, but it is functional, affordable and available today.

The HD revolution is here and it's time to start planning for that. Any review or comparison of HDV cameras which downplays HD image quality is missing the mark.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

In case you didn't already know, you can burn HD in compressed formats like the ones you mentioned on standard red-laser DVDs, and play those on several currently shipping players. Starting this month you'll even be able to distribute full-quality HDV that way using the JVC HD DVD player, which retails for $399. This isn't a particularly elegant solution, but it is functional, affordable and available today.

So true Kevin, there are some solutions for DivX and others right now. You'd have to agree that none of them are readily available at K-mart or Wal-Mart or similar stores, but I agree that HD is here. I'd be willing to bet HD-DVD wins out because it is the path of least resistance to the general public and that leaves the ball in Toshiba's court to get a player out to K-mart, Sears and Wal-mart that will play regular SD-DVD and HD-DVD.

[Tommy James]

Actually I would like to see 720p30 upconverted to 720p60 using motion interpolation technology. Also HD video can get a jump start if video stores start renting out HD decks for a nominal cost.

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

I'd be willing to bet HD-DVD wins out because it is the path of least resistance to the general public and that leaves the ball in Toshiba's court to get a player out to K-mart, Sears and Wal-mart that will play regular SD-DVD and HD-DVD.

I'm not betting on any particular HD delivery option just yet, but my gut sense is that Sony will have the upper hand in the long run. Among other things, note that a single-layer 25GB Sony blu-ray disc will hold almost two hours of full-quality HDV, compared to a little over an hour on a 15 GB Toshiba disc. My biggest concern is that consumers will resist both blue-laser formats because of the conflict between them, in which case it's not clear exactly how to respond to that.

As far as getting current HD players is concerned, anyone with access to the internet can easily order one and have it delivered. I'd just tell people to do that if it weren't for the imminent introduction of the blue-laser options.

[Ken Hodson]

I have watched Shrek and Attack of the Clones in HD on a regular DVD disc that is recorded with WM9. Looked great. We just need playes that will use WM9 and we could use current DVD's.

[Michael Maier]

Hey Ken, was that an official release?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

I'd be willing to bet HD-DVD wins out because it is the path of least resistance to the general public and that leaves the ball in Toshiba's court to get a player out to K-mart, Sears and Wal-mart that will play regular SD-DVD and HD-DVD.

I'll take that bet.
BD players are also backward compatible, BTW

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

I'll take that bet.
BD players are also backward compatible, BTW

I had read that a couple of weeks ago. The backwards compatability is the key. If that's the case then the race to market is the question. Is this in fact "the case"?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

I had read that a couple of weeks ago. The backwards compatability is the key. If that's the case then the race to market is the question. Is this in fact "the case"?

At the risk of taking this thread further OT, yes, the BD group has announced backwards compatibility, and Sony has said that the Playstation 3 will have BD and DVD playback capability.
If it comes down to a race, BD will be there first, but that doesn't mean they'll win, although I believe they will.
Soup to nuts on the broadcast side, they own the majority of the content on the delivery side, and it's a long range format, with now over 100GB storage on the disc.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

At the risk of taking this thread further OT, yes, the BD group has announced backwards compatibility, and Sony has said that the Playstation 3 will have BD and DVD playback capability.
If it comes down to a race, BD will be there first, but that doesn't mean they'll win, although I believe they will.
Soup to nuts on the broadcast side, they own the majority of the content on the delivery side, and it's a long range format, with now over 100GB storage on the disc.

I realize on the broadcast side there are differences from the consumer side. In this case consumer is king (as you know) because of the sheer number of households worldwide. People who already own DVD's will not buy a player that will not play their existing (expensive) movies. Sony has always been a maverick as far as formats which have fallen away. Beta, Digibeta, etc..

You'd have to agree that HD-DVD has the path of least resistance manufacturer wise and consumer wise. Where was the announcement from Blu-ray that the format was backwards compatible? I only read it on a forum but haven't seen the 'official' word of it?

[Tommy James]

Actualy walmart does sell HDTV receivers for around 200 bucks so that means that they are commited to the concept of people watching real HD content. Walmart also sells Sanyo televisions with HD receivers built in. walmart also sells high definition DVD players in the form of computers that you can hook up to your HDTV.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

You'd have to agree that HD-DVD has the path of least resistance manufacturer wise and consumer wise. Where was the announcement from Blu-ray that the format was backwards compatible? I only read it on a forum but haven't seen the 'official' word of it?

I don't know that I'd agree to that. It's the path of least resistance on the manufacturer side, yes. Consumer side? I believe HD-DVD is the path of greatest resistance at this time.

Blu-Ray will be out first, based on HD-DVD's recent announcement of deliberate delay.
Blu-Ray has the largest selection of big name films that consumers want/will want
Blu-Ray is more interactive capable
Blu-Ray stores far, far more. Ridiculously more
Blu-Ray is futuristic, HD-DVD is a band-aid
Blu-Ray is already announced as part of gaming and gaming consoles. That alone will be nearly as large as the DVD aspect.
Blu-Ray has more forward looking support.

HD-DVD is a good opp, but they didn't get out soon enough nor offer enough option. This is likely a big part of their recently announced delay, trying to find better studio/content support. Only by stubbing their toe badly, will Blu-Ray lose the edge, IMO. Remember, Blu-Ray is substantially more than just Sony.

[Marty Baggen]

As always in the wars of format, the victor shall be decided by the all-knowing judge..... The Porn Industry.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

As always in the wars of format, the victor shall be decided by the all-knowing judge..... The Porn Industry.

Now that's funny :-)



@Douglas Spotted Eagle-Had you seen the laundry list of manufacturers that are backing each format? There are major studios on both sides of the issue.

Blu-Ray:
- Apple Computer
- Dell
- Hewlett Packard
- Hitachi
- LG Electronics
- Mitsubishi Electric
- Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
- Pioneer Corporation
- Royal Philips Electronics
- Samsung Electronics
- Sharp Corporation
- Sony Corporation
- TDK Corporation
- Thomson
- Twentieth Century Fox
- Walt Disney Pictures

When looking at HD-DVD, the names that stick out are:
- Acer
- Canon
- Fuji
- Hitachi/Maxell
- Imation Corp
- InterVideo, inc
- Kenwood Corporation (huh?)
- Mitsui
- NEC
- Nero
- Paramount Home Entertainment
- Ricoh Company LTD
- Ritek Corporation
- Sanyo
- Sonic Solutions
- Teac
- Toshiba (of course)
- Ulead Systems
- Universal Pictures
- Warner Home Video Inc.

Now watch holographic disk come into the picture next year ;-)

we'll see....

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Had you seen the laundry list of manufacturers that are backing each format? There are major studios on both sides of the issue.

And remember that Sony bought MGM/UA last year and also owns Columbia.
This back catalogue is huge, and contains many classics that videofiles can't wait to watch in HD at home.

Just think of the implications of the James Bond franchise alone.
Not to mention that 20th Century Fox distributes the Star Wars movies.

I just wish Paramount was going to be in bed with the eventual winner so that I don't have to wait a decade to get the Indiana Jones movies in HD.