Birth of a 12,000mAh battery
 

I've mentioned before that I had a little project going to make my own high capacity battery to suit the HD101 as it seems to me the IDX plate is going to be more expensive than I expected or hoped. While I don't have a HD101 yet, it is planned, but only hopefully delayed.

In the mean time this battery will also serve to support my JVC GY-DV301E which also uses the same native battery system.

I started with a generic battery for the camera, in this case an INCA BN-V428 replacement rated to only 2500mAh. This battery had never performed well and now was lucky to last 40min on my DV301.

I cut the rear end off the battery to expose the cells:
http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/im...gonal_open.jpg

You can see the origonal cells. They are the same height as an AA cell but with a larger radius. My replacement cells are the same radius as these cells, however about 25% taller (as you will see later). This battery contained 4 cells.

MY cells are 2400mAh 3.7v LiIon cells. To achieve 7.2v for the camera two are connected in series. To increase the capacity of the battery, these 7.2v pairs are connected in parrallel. I used 5 pairs (10 batteries). The batteries I bought have 'tabs' on them allowing soldering them together. This is needed as solder will not stick to the battery casing itself.

Here are the cells soldered together (top and bottom):
http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/im...p_soldered.jpg
http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/im...m_soldered.jpg

After removing the origonal cells from the battery by breaking its own tabs and removing each cell, I finally gained access to the from panel circuit. Checking the connections to the origonal cells it wasn't hard to work out where + and - were connected. What is interesting is there is also a centre tap from between the two cells in series. This is probably used during charging some how as 3.7v isn't used by the camera.

TO assemble the battery I used a single cell from the origonal battery (correct height for the plastic case) to hold the circuit in place at the front of the battery, and so far just a hot glue gun to hold that all in place. Add insulation tape to the batteries, and a fair amount of well placed gaffa tape and you have the result below:

http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/images/by_itself.jpg

Here it is mounted on my DV301E

http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/im...ed_on_body.jpg

It happily powered up the DV301E.

I have it now on my charger. Here it is on the charger. You get an idea of the scale compared to a 428 also mounted on the charger.

http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/images/on_charger.jpg

http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/im...n_charger2.jpg

This battery should provide a bit over 4 times the capacity of the origonal JVC 2800mAh battery. Most report about 1 hour from the origonal, so this should give up to 4 hours on a HD101, and about 6-7 hours on my DV301E (which is very cool).

I have enought batteries and another old INCA to make a second:

Cost:
INCA batteries to scavange = free as I already had them. One origonally cost AU$30 second hand.
2400mAh LiIon batteries = US$7.90 each + allow about $1 freight for each =$9 so 10x = US$90

So the cost is slightly more than the cost of a single genuine JVC BN-V428. Plus it has been fun to work it out and put it together.

It does make my DV301 a bit back heavy, but that is good. With an on camera light or wireless mic reciever on the cold shoe it is front heavy anyway, so it should help balance it out. It won't balance a HD101 out wuite so much as a decent size VMount though.

If you want more info or picks just ask.

looks like a bomb.

with gaffa u can build anything!

it is like a bomb.
you should take care that li-ion batteries are highly explosive if short-circuited.
usually, some thermal fuse are insserted into the wiring.
look at www.batteryspace.com, they got anything you need to build a cheap ans safe battery.

I got my batteries from there, and the origonal batteries were wired exactly the same as mine are. There is still all the origonal electronics in this battery it origonally had so it should be as safe as the origonal. All cells are soldered and insulated. All wire is soldered so even if it breaks it is not flexible. All I basically did is replace the cells.

It charged overnight without issue on the JVC charger.

My only concern is that some have reported only origonal JVC batteries work on the HD100. If this is the case I will come unstuck until I have a real 428 die and can scavange its electronics.

I do want to create a hard shell for the cells as a more pemanent solution however the gaffa tape provides a suprisingly good level of protection as its thinkness actually adds padding. I was also concerned about the weight off the cells pulling off the front section, but it has turned out to be very stong, easily enough to support the weight of the batteries.

I can't speak for all aftermarket batteries, of course, but I can tell you that at least one aftermarket battery does work with the HD100. I'm beta-testing one now and it works fine.

Well done Guy - good project. I wondered how you were going to make it all work when you mentioned it in the original thread.

My only suggestion would be to go to jaycar or DSE and see if you can find a cheap plastic case that fits the batteries and a way of mounting the batteries stack vertically (for better balance). That way you'll be treating the original battery more like a mounting plate. Gaffer will work short term, but the glue breaks down over a period of time. Should be a fairly cheap addition. Oh and I'm unsure about using the old battery as padding - if it leaks you're going to ruin your electronics - I'm no expert on LiOn but I imagine they can leak over time.

One other small problem may be that the protective circuits are designed for particular amp hour ratings in conjunction with voltage, but unless you are drawing more current than you were with your old batt's that shouldn't be an issue.

Does your charger fully charge the battery?

Barry: Are you testing a battery specifically designed to be compatible with the HD100 (ie gets around any battery checking) or is the battery just a new generic that you have found works with the HD100?

"My only suggestion would be to go to jaycar or DSE and see if you can find a cheap plastic case that fits the batteries and a way of mounting the batteries stack vertically (for better balance). That way you'll be treating the original battery more like a mounting plate. Gaffer will work short term, but the glue breaks down over a period of time. Should be a fairly cheap addition."

That is the plan for the long term, for now the gaffa will do while I search for such a housing.

"Oh and I'm unsure about using the old battery as padding - if it leaks you're going to ruin your electronics - I'm no expert on LiOn but I imagine they can leak over time."
I assume it wouldn't leak any more than it might if the battery was still in its origonal condition, I hope anyway... I could easily replace with a block off wood in the final construction.

"One other small problem may be that the protective circuits are designed for particular amp hour ratings in conjunction with voltage, but unless you are drawing more current than you were with your old batt's that shouldn't be an issue."
As I wouldn't be drawing any more current it should be just fine. The supply voltage is the same, as is the load so same power going through the electonics, its just more batteries in parrallel, and like using a D Cell to power something designed for an AA or C.

Does your charger fully charge the battery?"
The charger was indicating a full charge this morning, but I have not yet tested the real world endurance. I will soon though and report back.

Come on Barry, tells us more. :)

Sorry Guy - I missed the previous post where you mentioned you were looking for an appropriate hard case. I'd suggest ABS plastic.

Most cells are prone to leakage as they get older especially if left uncharged. Lithium is a particuarly corrosive metal (more corrosive than a standard alkaline battery for instance), although I don't think there's much in a cell.

You're probably fine with the charger unless there is a significant difference in voltage between the old pack fully charged and the new one.

The HD100 battery is the same as that used for their other cameras. This one that I have is a new model, higher-capacity than the other (it's 3300mah vs. 2800 for the stock battery). It works on the HD1, and it also works on the HD100.

There's nothing particular about the HD100 that precludes third-party batteries, as far as I can tell, because the battery it uses was designed and marketed years before there was an HD100. It uses regular JVC camcorder batteries.

Your the first I have heard who has the new 438 battery (I think thats its code). It should help a little but still sounds like it wouldn't last much more than about an 60-80min (40-60min for the 428)?

There were some rumours early on that JVC have somehow locked the HD100 out of third party JVC mount batteries (like Sony did with the Z1), I think even one person canceled a generic order and got JVC instead in fear from this rumour. It must be said though no one has actually reported any incompatibilities yet, however I think Barry, you are the only one around here that has tried.

I doubt this Guy as mine works with the gold mount adapter and thrid party batteries that don't contain all the electronics of the AB's.

I think Guy was talking about the smaller batteries, not the AB ones.

That's right. I am not saying this is true, but there should be previous discussions in this forum about it. If it was true, the electronic in the AB mount would simply have the correct way of identifing themselves to the camera anyway as in theory the JVC batteries do.

It is all probably hogwash, I hope it is or my batteries won't work on these cameras, so I am pretty much counting on them working.

I am most of the way through making my second 12,000mAh battery now.

Initally the second attempt didn't show any voltage at the terminals of the electronics (there was a voltage at the battreies themselves), so I thought the electronics were bust. But I gave it a charge and low and behold once charged it seems to work fine. The batteries much have been below a critical level to work the electronics. Phew....

So now my first battery has a brother ;-)

(Ha-ha it's my first post here)
Yes, I bought five 428 third party batteries on e-bay from a Missisauga ON. Canada based seller. Either one shoot the camera down after two mins.
Now I bought the IDX V-mount adapter, (just the adapter) I can't be happier. I can use my Switronix 130 batteries, work like a charm.
The only wierd thing is in the viewfinder it's show 16 V or later 14V instead of 7.2 V

Laszlo

It is interesting they work for a few minutes before shutting down. That sounds more like they lack the ability to maintain adequate current for more than a short time, not a specific battery detection function.

That is my experience with VMount batteries as well. They start at 16v and drop drown to about 11v before they give up, depending on the battery brand. The voltage is as accurate a guage as you can get, you just have to get to know your voltage levels as the decrease isn't linear. After 12v they drop off pretty quick.

The 3.7v rating of LiIon cells is not hard and fast. They charge a bit higher and deplete a bit lower. So with a 14.4v battery, you have 4 cells in series meaning each cell only need charge up to 4v to give an overall 16v readout. The 7.2v batteries I made charge up to 8v.

On a DV301E, here are the readings I have measured (it is all relative so you should probably half the times for HD100)

Fuel Cell shows 3 sections:
3 Sections Lit
>6.8v
50min*

2 Sections Lit
6.8v-6.4v
70min*

1 Section Lit
6.4v-6.2v
50min*

0 Sections Lit and Low Voltage Warning Flashing
6.2v-6.0v
7min*

OFF

*LCD and Viewfinder on in camera mode, tape not recording, no gain
Note again, times are with no tape transport movement.

So you can use 14.4v and 12v batteries? I have some Bescor 12v belts and 14.4v bricks lying around. They have a XLR to connect to power, but I could find an adapter. I wonder if the would work. The belt used to power a Panasonic Supercam for about 6 hours and the brick for about 2 1/2 hours. Anybody think it would be ok to use the Bescor batteries? They are heavy, since they are lead, but it could do for now, till I get a better solution.

The DC in for my camera is DV500 12v DC. I think that is pretty standard.

Are you saying my Bescor batteries could work?

Sorry I am not familiar with the Bescor batteries. Work on what? A DV500 or a HD100. The DV500 is a 12v camera and therefor uses 14.4v batteries natively, but the HD100 is a 7.2 volt camera, so if you are feeding more than say 9v you really should be first downconverting the voltage. Without the IDX adaptor I can't confirm, but I'd guess there is a voltage converter in it to regulate the voltage to about 7.2v.

I hear the HD100 shows you the full battery voltage so it might actually have the voltage regulator in the camera. Alternatively there could be two voltage connections from the adaptor, one to power the camera at about 7.2v, and one unregulated one to display the battery voltage.

I wish I could tell you more, but I am really only guessing on the voltages and connections comming out of the adaptor plate.

Very cool! I made some 8.4v (for Canons) custom battery packs at 4A and 8A - phew.. 12A.. mine now seem puny :)

There are a lot of settings in the service menu to deal with external batteries via a voltage drop adapter. I am unsure what they actually do, but the glimpse i had of some of them the other day indicates that with some external batteries the HD100 does indeed read the voltage directly off the battery pack and you can actually set the warning level for when the battery is getting low.

This does NOT mean you can plug a 12 volt battery/power supply straight into the camera. It's a 7.2 v camera and anything over 9v would most likely damage the power circuit. My external batteries read 8V.

Okay, interesting development. I've been using this beta 3rd-party battery and it's been working fine, but up until today I'd only been charging it on the HD1 charger (which works fine).

I tried the 3rd-party battery in the HD100's charger, and it wouldn't work. Wouldn't recognize it at all.

So the camera recognizes it, but the HD100's charger doesn't (although the HD1's charger does!)

Don't know what to make of all that. Looks like yes, they did engineer in some incompatibility, but curiously enough it's not with the camera...

My charger is from a DV301E, its a model no "AA-P30U" and it charges JVC and generic brands fine. Is your HD1 and HD100 battery the same model externally?

The batteries from both cameras are identical (BNV428U). The chargers are different, the HD1's is a single-bay and the HD100's is a dual-bay. The HD1's charger charges generic and original batteries, the HD100's doesn't want to charge this third-party battery.

Thas why I asked about model numbers. My JVC charger is a dual-bay charger and it charges 3rd party batteries just fine.

The HD100 System page shows its charger to be the AA-P30U, the same one I have. Unless they have changed its internal design it should charge a 3rd party battery as my AA-P30U does.

Intriguing. Perhaps it's this particular battery's fault.

Hey, I've got a couple of other generic batteries here too; I'll try those out in the cam and charger and let you know how those work out.

I've made a very basic web page from the origonal and a few new photos from making the second battery.

http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/battery.htm

Follow-up: the other generic batteries work fine on both the HD100 and the HD100 charger. It's just this particular prototype that won't charge on the HD100 charger.

Thanks for the update, I am sure your battery developer will be interested in your discovery too.

Endurance Update:

I did a test on this battery with a DV301 (10W camera) on the weekend.

Remember a (new) 428 battery lost the first cell (of 3) in the battery guage on this camera in 50min with the LCD and VF on but not recording, focusing or zooming.

I turned the camera on at 6:15pm and left it on all night. I shot about 70min of tape (reception like event, birthday party actually) and the first cell dropped off at about 10pm, neally 4 hours later.

Given the battery is about 4.5x the capacity of the 428 it is not too suprising, but it is reassuring. If the 428 lasts about 40-60min hour on a HD101, this battery would last about 180-270min (3-4.5 hours).

Cool, now I just have to wait 6 months for this new rumoured replacement model, which probably won't even use the JVC battery mount...

I ordered 4 Power2000 3500 Mha batteries from B&H. I hope those rumors about third-party batteries aren't more than rumors... I found an original BN-V428 on ebay from a German guy for only 15€, I was very lucky. Most batteries posted on ebay as original are a fake, be carefull.

Be sure to post your results with these Power2000 batteries please.

You could always do what I did in this thread with the 428 you got of eBay if it is getting a bit old in the tooth (the cells start to die).

Well, I have bought the IDX, so I get a new BN-428 battery with the camcorder which remains unused. Anyone interested perhaps?

This one I've got of eBay is original, the guy bought this battery and never used it. Hopefully it won't get old so soon, but I could try what you did with other replacement batteries very cheap on ebay...

I will post how these Power2000 perform as soon as I get them. I have some for my PD150 and one for my photo camera working as well as the original ones. They cost almost the same as the JVC's but have 3500 mAh instead of 2800. I also ordered a Power2000 charger, this JVC takes 6 hours to charge 2 batteries.

how long does the Power2000 take to charge a single 428?

It's a rapid charger, they say it charges most batteries in 30-60 Mins. I won't use it as a regular charger and with the original JVC batteries, rapid chargers are not sweet with batteries.

A correction, Power2000 batteries have a capacity of 3200 mAh and not 3500 mAh as I posted.

I have the Power2000 batteries already. I've got 2 on charge and 1 in the camera that seems to be working perfectly. I never charged the battery and the camera is turned on for about 15 minutes, I think that afterall not only JVC batteries work with the HD-100.

About the charger, it says Turbo Charger on the box... but they claim it lasts 3 hours to charge a 7.4V battery with 1800 mAh... I wonder how long it will take to charge these with 3200mAh. The good thing about it, it comes with a bonus european adaptor plug and a car cigarret plug. I will post how they perform in a few days, after they reach their full capacity. As you probably know batteries need a few charges and discharges to preform at 100%.

By the way, these batteries are manufactured by Vidpro, www.vidprousa.com

(1 hour later) - The camera was on for 1 hour and 5 minutes on standby with the LCD oppened, I used the recorder for about 5 minutes. I never charged this battery, it was used for the very first time. This kills the rumour that third-party batteries don't work with the HD-100, at least these Power2000 do but they cost almost as much as the original ones.

These batteries will do the work for a few months before I'll be able to purchase an A-B power solution.

Great new they work, that will give me a very good chance of these 12,000mAh batteries working on a HD101 if/when I get one.