Volunteers needed to test some new scene files...
 

I've been working on some new scene files that will emulate some different film looks. I colour corrected some basic footage to the desired look, then applied the CC settings to a basic capture of a colour chart. I then adjusted the settings in the camera to match the results on the scopes as closely as possible.

These are the new settings I have so far:

FILM NOIR (The Third Man, Touch of Evil)
WARM (Three Kings Act III)
WARM GREEN (Amélie)
BLEACH BYPASS (Three Kings Act I, Saving Private Ryan)
CROSS-PROCESSED REVERSAL (Three Kings Act II)
FILM VERT (The Matrix)

Before I go public with this next batch of settings, I'd like some real world testing done in various locals and environments. All you would basically have to do is program the settings into your camera and shoot the same setup with each
setting.
If you have a SD card reader (or digital camera with SD) I can also email you the scene files in .scn format and you can transfer them to the camera.

So please respond to this thread if you are interested and let me know what EXT environment you can shoot in (desert, urban, studio, snow, jungle, etc.) and when (DAY/NIGHT/MORN/MAGIC HOUR.)

More specific instructions will follow.

Tim

Las Vegas gives me desert, tropical, and city at night. So FILM NOIR (Touch of Evil), WARM GREEN (Amélie),
BLEACH BYPASS (Three Kings Act I), and FILM VERT (The Matrix) would all work here.

SD-files
 

I can shoot in scandinavian nature enviroment, and are doing som documentary work as this time.
You are welcome to email me SD-settings.

info@dba-media.dk

Greetings from
Henrik
dBA MEDIA

I can shoot in Los Angeles =)

You can email me duke@superbadmusic.com

The only problem is my HD100U is attached to a Mini35 and I am not sure if that is what you need.

Scene settings
 

I would like to test these out here in Mozambique, mainly in the wildlife and documentary context. Can you email me these SD settings and the .scn files please. james@earthmedia.co.uk I will try the warmer files in the very harsh light we get here in the summer (now)

Its excellent that you have the initiative to do these things Tim, thanks...

James
DP
Earthmedia Imaging and Film
Maputo, Mozambique

Hi Tim

Please email me that SD settings, aim so interesting by film look , I will be so happy if you do that for me

smallcinma@yahoo.com

Tim, I could test them on urban, studio, snow (soon) any time of the day you need. Please shoot me an email if you would like me to test them.Thanks.

Tim,

I can do a lot of different scenes here in Puerto Rico (the carribbean tropic): colonial city, forts, port (more than 500 years old), forest (the only officialy pronounced Rain Forest in the US territory), modern city, tropical beach (even in the middle of winter!), dry environment in the south of the island, lighthouses, and many more... Just send me the files.

I am part of a project (feature) that will start main photography in the middle of November to be shot 100% here in PR using only the HD100. The DP is a successful film/video cinematographer that moved recently back to PR from Hollywood, and his reel is impressive. That will give me some cinematic's light controlled environment in which I can test all of them.

Cheers,

Luis Otero

tim im in!
 

hey tim, in japan and living across the road to the biggest park in tokyo so im sure i can do something for u, i have the stock hd100 ok with a 32 mb card. reply back if you're interested

Tim,

I can get you urban Chicago, suburban Chicago, lake Michigan, nightlife (of the human type!), industrial wasteland and in the the spring I can get the Baltic Sea, Stockholm, Helsinki and Tallinn, Estonia (possibly St. Petersburg, Russia).

That's what's coming up. What is your timeframe to compile?

Would love to test
 

Based in Middle East, Dubai, UAE, will film desert, mountains,
city, at sea etc. Pls email your settings and would try them out.

Thanks

I'll gladly test them in belgium WESPproductions@telenet.be

Wow. What an overwhelming response... and in less than 24 hours!

I will email the settings to all of you. It would be great if each of you could test at least three of the scene files and report back, or if you can load/program all six, that would be ideal!

For those planning to copy the scene files to a SD card with a SD card reader:
Since the SD card only holds four settings, I would suggest programming/copying two of them into the camera's two internal memory slots (CAM1 and CAM2), and then copy the other four to the SD card.
Make sure you save off your own custom settings to your computer before overwriting them - or you can just rename them on the card.
The camera will only detect settings named EXT1.scn, EXT2.scn, EXT3.scn or EXT4.scn so you will need to rename the scn files once you transfer them to the SD card.
WARNING: These settings were created with a HD100U, so there is a possibility that they may not work in the HD100E or HD101E, or produce unexpected results. Please use them at your own risk.
Also, all of the scene files were created in 720P24 mode, so please feel free to change to 720P30 or 720P25 if it is easier for you to digitize.

The test procedure.
Here's the method I would like everyone to stick to so that we can all analyze the results a little easier:

1. Load the "CINELIKE HD24P" file from the camera's internal ROM. You may switch to 25P or 30P if it will be easier for you to digitize.
2. Manual White balance (or use 3200K or 5600K preset if you are in tungsten light or outside on a bright day, respectively.)
3. Shoot your first shot with the CINELIKE HD24P
4. Load the first custom scene file
5. Shoot the same setup with the new scene file
6. Load the next custom scene file
7. Repeat Steps 5 & 6 for all the scene files you are testing
8. Optional: Make any custom modifications you want to the scene files and make notes of what is different.
9. Optional: Shoot samples with your modifications
10. Digitize the material
11. Export a JPEG of each example and, if possible, upload to your own server or email them to me.
12. Respond to this thread with your comments and post links to your examples.

It is great that we will get so many diverse environments, but some of the settings will work better in certain situations.

For bright/hot environments all six should work really well. If you are shooting nighttime or INT studio, I'd specifically like to see FILM NOIR, FILM VERT, but the others may give some interesting results.
Also, if you want to emulate the sharp look of Three Kings or Saving Private Ryan, then increase the shutter speed to at least 1/100 of a second.

NOTE ABOUT TALENT: The best way to judge these settings is with human subjects, however please don't photograph strangers unless the privacy laws in your country permit it. For example, in all of Canada you are fair game if on public property - except for the Province of Québec, where personal privacy extends to public property. The definitions of "public property" vary, but it would be safe to say that parks/beaches/streets/train stations are public. Food courts, office buildings, restaurants are not. When in doubt, just ask permission or get a signed release.
The best subjects to use are family members, girlfriends/boyfriends, actor friends, etc.

Good luck!

Tim

ADDED NOV 12: IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT WHITE BALANCE.

It is very important that you set your white balance with a "normal" setting (CINELIKE HD24P as suggested) before loading one of the new scene files.

The problem is that if you manually set your white balance after loading the a scene file with specific colour shifting (towards green for example) the white balance circuit will counter-act it. It really sucks that the white balance circuit samples the image after it has been processed, but that's the way it is.

If you are having problems with manual white balance then just use preset 3200K for tungsten or 5600K for outside and least you will get consistent results.

The other thing I want to mention is that for those of you using the original SCN files I emailed, I just realized that the "preset" white balance switch was set for FAW instead of preset. FAW should be set to "NONE."

I have corrected the mistake on all of the SCN files, so please download these the revised versions here:

TD_scene_files_v2.zip

UPDATE Feb '06:
There is a problem with the way the white balance settings are saved for A and B into the scene files. Basically, don't bother trying to use manual WB with the "colour shifted" scene files. This includes FILM VERT, WARM, and WARM GREEN. Your best bet is to use preset WB of 3200K or 5600K depending on tungsten or daylight lighting.
The problem is that the HD100 saves EVERYTHING to the scene file, even the manual WB temperature. Therefore, even if you manually set the WB, when you load my scene file A becomes overwritten with "3000K" because that is what I had manually set it to. If you reset the WB after loading the scene file then it will counteract any WB PAINT adjustments I had made - defeating the colour shift. It is a real "Catch-22" and the only solution I can think of is to design separate scene files for a few various WB temperatures. More later.

Tim

Luis, your email isn't part of your public profile.

Tim

Tim, I hope its not too late, plz send me the settings as well. I will be shooting a 3 minute short for a festival in less than a week. Im located in Sweden and would love to test out. Plz let me know!

Important Note About White-balance
 

It is very important that you set your white balance with a "normal" setting (CINELIKE HD24P as suggested) before loading one of the new scene files.

The problem is that if you manually set your white balance after loading the a scene file with specific colour shifting (towards green for example) the white balance circuit will counter-act it. It really sucks that the white balance circuit samples the image after it has been processed, but that's the way it is.

The other thing I want to mention is that for those of you using the SCN files I emailed, I just realized that the "preset" white balance switch was set for FAW instead of preset. FAW should be set to "NONE."

I have corrected the mistake on all of the SCN files, so please download these the revised versions here:

TD_scene_files_v2.zip

Good luck,
Tim

Thx for that info Tim, now its starting to look like something!

I have a question. When I use the BLCHBYPASS setting I get flicker, specially in lowlight, do you know why?

I have also noticed that the iris on the Fujinon closes down when you zoom in using the settings, I dont know if its there also when using "normal" settings but its the first time I have noticed it. When I zoom in past 40 it starts to get darker and darker...looks really weird!

That's pretty normal, just about every zoom lens will 'close down' toward the end of its range. Check your still camera zoom, chances are it will behave the same. Lens manufactures usually indicate that by marking the lens like this (i.e. my still Nikkor lens) 70-300mm 1:4-5.6 suggesting that at the wide end the lens (70mm) has f stop of 4, whereas at the longest focal length (300mm) it drops down to 5.6

I don't know why you are getting flicker. Flourescent light? TV in the room?

That is the stock lens, you are seeing the effects faster in that setting because the blacks are crushed. We've been discussing the lens and ASA over in this thread.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=54054

I have also found that heavy vignetting starts at around 40mm and you lose at least 1 stop between 40mm and 88mm. The manual for the lens claims Maximum Photometric Aperature to be T1.5. It also states that the relative aperature is "ƒ1.4 (5.5mm~68mm) ~ ƒ1.8 (88mm)".

Happy to Help
 

Hi from Western Australia.

Love to grab your files, load them and then test them. I live in Bunbury, down on the South West coast of Western Australia. Lots of different scenery, beaches (The Indian Ocean), wineries, wheatfields and late sunsets..

Kind regards
Dean

Hello Tim,

I am getting the camera next weekend, so I'd love to have the files too. Kelowna, BC... snowy mountains and cold lake here at this time of the year.

HDV in NYC
 

Tim,

I've got a ton of projects coming up in NYC. If the settings are still available, I would love to provide you with some feedback.

Best Regards,

Dave Dessel

I did some tests today with your Scene files Tim. I was a little confused about the white balance settings. The first batch was using one white balance I did with Cinelike24 scn file. I then loaded each of your scene's without doing another white balance. There seems to be a problem with the white balance once a new scene is loaded. It looks way off leaning towards 3200.

I then set the white balance to preset 5600 and then loaded each scene in turn.
These are the jpgs with the 5600PSWB on the end.
Unfortunately, I bet some of your settings were defaulting the preset mode to 3200.

So, without doing a manual white balance after each load or going in and selecting 5600 preset, it's not gonna look right.

Dave Beaty

http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.com/hdv/

Thanks Dave. You are the first to report back.

Hmmm. The white balance is interesting. Your manual balance should have been close to 5600K anyway since it looked quite bright and sunny.

However, you did the right thing going with preset 5600K when you noticed something was off. My testing was all in a 3200K environment, but the colour shifting in the scene files should be based on the set white balance as a starting point. I will test this myself with some CTB and see what happens.

The daylight results of the colour shifted scene files are definitely not falling exactly where I had intended, so this is useful information for me me to modify the settings. At least the REVERSAL and BLEACH BYPASS settings seemed to give the expected results - but there isn't much colour shifting programmed into them.

thanks again Dave

Tim

Dean, Jiri and David. I can't get to your email addresses for some reason (Chris is still working out some bugs with this new software upgrade) so:

Instructions for Scene File beta test are at:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....0&postcount=13

You can download the 6 .SCN files from:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...e_files_v2.zip

Tim

Tim,

I just discovered that one should white balance after loading a scene file. Yes this counter acts the advanced shift settings, but there's no other way around it. We'll have to manually shift them after WB.

It seems the actual white balance that is in memory will be stored when saved and thus loaded when that file is later loaded back into memory. That's what it seems like based on my casual test.

Try this test, white balance and note the setting. Now load a file and check the status, it will change to the WB stored on the scene file. Just FYI.

That's why my tests of your scenes were all BLUE. :) I was shooting outside and some of your scenes load up as 3000K.

Dave B

I think the way around what you have written is to re-save the scn file but have the white balance in FAW.

Good observation Dave. You've discovered the "missing link" of the problem I've been experiencing with scene file WB. This has been an issue I've been trying to work out. I created the original scene files in tungsten balanced light (3000K according to the camera) and originally assumed that the captured WB A and B values were not stored with the scene file. It is a silly way to do things, but we have to deal with the fact that on the HD100 everything is recorded in the scene file. I wish it worked like the XL2 and only saved actual image parameters and not switch settings.

The other problem I've been encountering is that the WB PAINT values seem to be absolute instead of using the base WB value as a starting point.
If WB PAINT was not based on absolute values, then it should have worked like a physical colour correction filter, and therefore had the same effect in any properly white balanced setting. I'm still testing this aspect of WB PAINT.

So, in the case of scene files that do not use WB PAINT values you can obviously white balance after loading the file or use a 3200K or 5600K preset. These include FILM NOIR, BLEACH BYPASS, REVERSAL, CINE WIDE LATITUDE, LOW LIGHT, & FILMOUT.

In the case of WARM, WARM GREEN, FILM VERT or the DVX100 MATCH scene files, only use them in tungsten balanced light (for now) with 3200K preset. I will rename these original files as "3200K" and then create additional 5600K versions with different WB PAINT values. This is the only way I can think of to work with the JVC method of scene file storage.

Will you post those files? Thanks Tim

Tim, do you need some more footage from us? I just followed your instructions and my shots are also too blue... I will shoot again white balancing after loading the scene files.