Split Screen Fixed Yet? at DVinfo.net

Bill Dunn · November 20th, 2005, 01:40 PM

Sorry to mention a products defects, but has the split been fixed in later released cameras? Can anybody with a new JVC100 confirm this? Starting a project and need to know damn soon.
Many thanks for your indulgences.

WBDunn

Robert Niemann · November 20th, 2005, 04:05 PM

Please read this statement from JVC: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/f...re_id=13#chips.

Bill Dunn · November 20th, 2005, 05:40 PM

Thanks for the official response, but I prefer a response from a seasoned user who has a late issue camera.
I'll wait till tomorrow without assuming its not fixed.

Merci

Nate Weaver · November 20th, 2005, 06:41 PM

It's not fixed. The calibration procedure in firmware that tries to minimize it has been improved reportedly, but it has not been "fixed". It likely will never be "fixed" in this hardware revision.

As a user of the camera, if you have not used the camera and seen what it's capable of on a proper display, then I implore you to do so.

[edit: Robert's response was a nice way of saying "It's never going to be "fixed", as such]

Stephen L. Noe · November 21st, 2005, 12:41 AM

Hi Bill,

I think Robert was trying to help with the link. Anyway, the split "issue" has been minimized for the most part and the subject has given way to the next hurdle, 24p capture and timecode. If you shoot 30p then this likely will not be a problem for you.

Have you had the camera in your hands?

Bill Dunn · November 21st, 2005, 10:03 AM

Stephen I did heft the camera in Toronto at the Dv Shop and liked the ergonometrics of the machine. The owner and I had a discussion on the split fault and he said it had stalled his sales of that item.
Our project requires a reliable camera for a doc shoot around the world. Low light, no light would be the rigour not the exception. So the JVC100HDV not the machine one ought to use?

Thanks

Dunn

Steven D. Martin · November 21st, 2005, 12:12 PM

I got my HD100 about a month ago and I have not noticed the split-screen yet. Can't say that I have pushed it to the limits, but I certainly have no complaints.

+Steve

Michael Maier · November 21st, 2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

the subject has given way to the next hurdle, 24p capture and timecode.

But this is not a problem with the camera actually.

Tim Dashwood · November 21st, 2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

But this is not a problem with the camera actually.

...just the fact that 720P24 HDV is a brand-new format. Most NLE software companies are still catching up (except for Cineform.)

Shannon Rawls · November 21st, 2005, 06:49 PM

That's because CineForm is awesome!
I'm gonna submit a propsal to them for the HDV Festival next year!

- ShannonRawls.com

Jiri Bakala · November 21st, 2005, 08:13 PM

Well, yesterday I was checking a US camera I was about to buy and it took me all of 5 seconds to see the SSE at 0dB. Of course, it was also there at higher gain but not necessary more pronounced. The suggested trick with changing iris didn't really get rid of it, neither did manual WB. Rather when closing the iris the 'line' began to disappear but it became replaced by a slight difference in the tonality of the two halves of the picture. The right side was darker, which brings up an interesting point; from what I have seen, all affected cameras have their right side darker, hence, the idea that the two processors (sets of) are not close enough in specs is not quite the whole story. If that was the case, some cameras would have their left side darker and other righ, quite randomly. The fact that there is (seems to be a pattern) may indicate that perhaps the automated factory calibration (if there is such a thing) is not set up properly. Or that the two sides for some reason employ different processors to accommodate additional functionality.

Anyway, lots of guessing on my part but based on the above mentioned observation. Please, feel free to enlighten me if you have other experience, more info or better understanding.

Michael Maier · November 22nd, 2005, 07:35 AM

How long was the camera on? It normally goes away at 0db once the camera is warm.

Jiri Bakala · November 22nd, 2005, 09:08 AM

It was still there after 20 minutes.

Silton Buendia · November 23rd, 2005, 04:23 AM

So we all know how the split screen effect is causes, two processors sampling the information on the chip. Half and Half and left and a right. Why not have one read every other line how things are done with interlaced video, one processor can read even lines the other odd. That way the information that is being read is never far from each other and that would eliminate the margin of error. Reading one left half and one right, at one point of the chip scan the two different processors are reading information that is on opposite sides from each other and begin so I can see how things can be calculated differently. Anyways just I tought why they didn't do it like this.

Werner Wesp · November 23rd, 2005, 05:06 AM

Thjat wouldn't help, because it would still be read out in the same time-interval - faster then with interlaced video - and thus creating more heat....

November 20th, 2005, 01:40 PM	#1
Bill Dunn New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 7	Split Screen Fixed Yet? Sorry to mention a products defects, but has the split been fixed in later released cameras? Can anybody with a new JVC100 confirm this? Starting a project and need to know damn soon. Many thanks for your indulgences. WBDunn

November 20th, 2005, 05:40 PM	#3
Bill Dunn New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 7	Split Screen Thanks for the official response, but I prefer a response from a seasoned user who has a late issue camera. I'll wait till tomorrow without assuming its not fixed. Merci

November 20th, 2005, 06:41 PM	#4
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	It's not fixed. The calibration procedure in firmware that tries to minimize it has been improved reportedly, but it has not been "fixed". It likely will never be "fixed" in this hardware revision. As a user of the camera, if you have not used the camera and seen what it's capable of on a proper display, then I implore you to do so. [edit: Robert's response was a nice way of saying "It's never going to be "fixed", as such] __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 21st, 2005, 10:03 AM	#6
Bill Dunn New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 7	bill dunn Stephen I did heft the camera in Toronto at the Dv Shop and liked the ergonometrics of the machine. The owner and I had a discussion on the split fault and he said it had stalled his sales of that item. Our project requires a reliable camera for a doc shoot around the world. Low light, no light would be the rigour not the exception. So the JVC100HDV not the machine one ought to use? Thanks Dunn

November 21st, 2005, 12:12 PM	#7
Steven D. Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oak Ridge, TN Posts: 72	Mine works fine I got my HD100 about a month ago and I have not noticed the split-screen yet. Can't say that I have pushed it to the limits, but I certainly have no complaints. +Steve

November 20th, 2005, 04:05 PM	#2
Robert Niemann Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Posts: 109	Please read this statement from JVC: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/f...re_id=13#chips.

November 21st, 2005, 12:41 AM	#5
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Hi Bill, I think Robert was trying to help with the link. Anyway, the split "issue" has been minimized for the most part and the subject has given way to the next hurdle, 24p capture and timecode. If you shoot 30p then this likely will not be a problem for you. Have you had the camera in your hands?

November 21st, 2005, 06:49 PM	#10
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	That's because CineForm is awesome! I'm gonna submit a propsal to them for the HDV Festival next year! - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

November 21st, 2005, 08:13 PM	#11
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	SSE - far from dead...unfortunately Well, yesterday I was checking a US camera I was about to buy and it took me all of 5 seconds to see the SSE at 0dB. Of course, it was also there at higher gain but not necessary more pronounced. The suggested trick with changing iris didn't really get rid of it, neither did manual WB. Rather when closing the iris the 'line' began to disappear but it became replaced by a slight difference in the tonality of the two halves of the picture. The right side was darker, which brings up an interesting point; from what I have seen, all affected cameras have their right side darker, hence, the idea that the two processors (sets of) are not close enough in specs is not quite the whole story. If that was the case, some cameras would have their left side darker and other righ, quite randomly. The fact that there is (seems to be a pattern) may indicate that perhaps the automated factory calibration (if there is such a thing) is not set up properly. Or that the two sides for some reason employ different processors to accommodate additional functionality. Anyway, lots of guessing on my part but based on the above mentioned observation. Please, feel free to enlighten me if you have other experience, more info or better understanding. __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 22nd, 2005, 07:35 AM	#12
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	How long was the camera on? It normally goes away at 0db once the camera is warm.

November 22nd, 2005, 09:08 AM	#13
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	It was still there after 20 minutes. __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 23rd, 2005, 04:23 AM	#14
Silton Buendia Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 31	Why isn't the answer for fixing this in the way things were done in interlace video? So we all know how the split screen effect is causes, two processors sampling the information on the chip. Half and Half and left and a right. Why not have one read every other line how things are done with interlaced video, one processor can read even lines the other odd. That way the information that is being read is never far from each other and that would eliminate the margin of error. Reading one left half and one right, at one point of the chip scan the two different processors are reading information that is on opposite sides from each other and begin so I can see how things can be calculated differently. Anyways just I tought why they didn't do it like this.

November 23rd, 2005, 05:06 AM	#15
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	Thjat wouldn't help, because it would still be read out in the same time-interval - faster then with interlaced video - and thus creating more heat....