Broken Clips
 

So we've got a new "A" version and were just capturing clips for a project for the first time off of it and it as the same problem as our original HD with broken clips in FCP.
Same routine...capturing HDV - 720p30, and every few attempts it searches for media and starts a new clip with a "-1" suffix.
Definitely not a sytem or firewire issue - it happens at the same frame on every break if you rewwind and try to recapture.
Anyone else dealing with this still?

I thought this was always intrinsic to HDV capture?

Wasn't aware this was one of the "NLE issues" supposedly fixed by the upgrade.

Yeah Nate, supposedly it was, and a pretty important one at that.
This is from JVC's uodate FAQ page:

"Will this address the problem of segmented frames during capture?

Certain NLE's have experienced issues with scenes being broken into shorter segments (clips) during capture. This upgrade addresses this issue."

Something ain't right.

Clips split up in FCP when captured
 

I have about 20 hours of tapes here. We have two people digitizing them for a reality show we are doing. They completed them last week. They are capturing the tapes in one piece with Capture now. After looking at the clips and noticing all these 3 second clips, I found out the hard way about the problem with Final Cut Pro splitting up HD100 clips captured via 720p30 Firewire in HDV.

There goes lots of work down the drain. I have all these clips that are sound bites, now they are split in the middle of sentences. Arbitrary splits. They pick back up about 5 seconds after the split occurs. IOW, digitizing stops and starts again in the middle of a shot. Compared to the raw shots, which are continuous and have no breaks. Help!

Did I read correctly here, the offical fix is to use another NLE, digitize all the footage, then dump it back out to tape, then redigitize it all in Final Cut Pro? No friggin way.

Please tell me there's a way. Even if I have to go back and have them redo these tapes. Some are "A" version cams, others are not. Is that the problem or is it a FCPro problem. Does version 5.1 FCP solve this?

Dave Beaty

Get the Apple Firewire SDK. There's an app in there called AV/C Capture. It will capture the 720 30p from the JVC. Load the captured file into MPEG Streamclip. If there are timecode breaks, Streamclip can fix them. Output file from Streamclip in format for editing in FCP.

-gb-

broken clips
 

I had the same problems. Two things I avoided since and everything seems to capture normal, from start/stop points, sometimes FCP even captures 2-3 clips as one.

The two things that I avoided are: using SONY tapes and forgetting to set the TC REGEN switch back to TC REC.

Where was your TC switch? and what tapes did you use? You may have to try the suggested method _ I have not used that before - or figure a way to capture analog HD out of the component outs from the camera as the last resort.

Jim, were the tapes you are trying to capture shot before the "A" upgrade, or after? The reason I ask is that the issue which the "A" upgrade addresses affects the recording of the tape, not the playback. So, tapes shot on a non-upgraded camera may still be problematic. If this is the case, we may be able to lend a hand in a work-around. E-mail me directly if needed.

Regards, Carl

carlh@jvc.com

fcp preference fix?
 

in one of the preferences, can't you set one of them to "warn after capture" upon timecode break instead of "begin new clip"? I just realized this last night with my first capture using the HD100. I'm going to find out if this fixes the problem tonight.

Hi Carl. It was the first tape shot with the new "A" camera. Two subsequent tapes didn't have breaks. I've got to get into the studio to check some recent shoots and I'll report back on any good or bad news.

problem is with the tapes??? not the JVC HD-100?
 

So this is what happened. I captured some stuff for a wedding using two cameras. JVC HD-100 and a Sony HC-3. I'm using the JVC PRO HD tapes. Now the footgage captured on the JVC HD-100, i was getting stream problem error messages and tons of broken clips. I was suspecting the camera like a lot of people on the boards. However, remember I capture footage using the HC-3 with the JVC PRO HD tapes. I was getting the same stream errors from footage captured on the HC-3. Now the reason I suspect its the tapes is that I also have another tape that I captured using the SONY HD tape. When I capture footage from this camera it appears that i'm not getting the stream errors as I was before.

Feedback??? anybody see this problem. Anybody seeing these capture problems with tapes from other tape manufacturers?

Edit: I was premature. I'm seeing stream problems on the HC-3 as well :(

Yooch

Carl,

Dave here, similar problem as Jim.

My issues are related to non-"A" cameras as far as I can tell. But I don't have full info on exactlty which cams are doing this. We have one in for JVC A upgrading now. But the 20 hours are a mix of both "A" and non "A".

So far, the options I've considered:

Using iMovie HD, which captures the tapes correctly as one scene during continuous shots. But I don't relish the idea of exporting hours and hours to QT when the HDV raw files are all I need. Is there a way to get the material out of iMovie to FCPro without exporting?

Using CapDVHS from firewire SDK from Apple to load in the material, but perhaps it will result in the same problem of exporting 10 hours or more frame by frame.

Some combination of settings, that will work around the issue.

We use Panasonic DVM63MQ tape and TC is Rec Run.

Dave

I remember that setting, I wonder if that would matter considering the TC is supposed to be continueous during one long shot....but just maybe..I'm more interested in getting the shots to digitize correctly than TC at this point.

Dave Beaty

Hi Dave,

I do not know of any faster work-arounds than the two you describe, but I will ask around.

Regards, Carl

I read on Cow that you can use an "A" version camera to play a tape with this problem and re-record it to a deck. The dub will no longer have this problem.

Has anyone heard this?

Dave Beaty

capture problem with A version?
 

Hi Dave,

I heard from Edgar Shane at JVC that cloning will not solve the problem, as the breaks will be cloned over - although he didn't mention the possibility of cloning off an A version. I will try it as soon as I get a chance.

I have talked to another filmmaker that is having this same problem with 2 A version cameras. Hi is going native 720p30 into FCP.

As far as I know, the only workarounds besides capture and output from premiere using the main concept plugin are:

1) capture the m2t stream with DVHSCap or HDVxDV, and use HDVxDV or MPEG streamclip to transcode in to an editing format such as Apple Intermediate Codec or DVCProHD (beware of scaling in the latter).

2) Use a capture card with HD analogue component inputs (Aja or Blackmagic) to capture as DVCProHD or uncompressed (the latter if you have tons of space or a little material). Use the serial connection on the BRHD50 for timecode.

I hope we can get to the bottom of this.

I did some tests changing the prefs for FCPro warnings during capture.
If on TC break, it's set to create new clips as the default is, it does just that. If warn after capture, it actually stops the capture at each break and warns that the TC is discontinuous or gives a stream error at these breaks.

It makes sense that dubbing the tapes via firewire would not repair the problem, but I'm going to test it anyway.

Dave

So, are we simply doomed to capture using 3rd party utilities until doomsday (Or a FCP update)? I'm currently sitting on top of 15 hours of footage that is, at a rough estimate, broken into 100 odd segments. (My 2nd cameraman was a bit trigger-happy. On. Off. On. Off. Repeat ad nauseum)

My cameras are both (A) models, (At the risk of beating the dead horse, I thought this was fixed in the update?) and I'm using the Sony Mini Digi-Master tapes (PHDVM). All the footage is 30p. FCP 5.0.4

I tweaked to capture settings to heck and back, with no results. Changing "On Timecode Break" to anything but "Make New Clip" dumps the transfer with a stream error. AIC doesn't make a difference either. So, erm... Yeah. What's a guy to do?

(Against the likelyhood that the response to that last question will be "Capture with DVHSCap and Streamclip", I'm off to start that now.)

Hi Ben,

If you end up capturing and transcoding entire tapes with this method, I'd love to know how your sync holds up.

A very unfortunate situation, indeed...

i've noticed that if i capture with imovie, and dump the clip that shows up in imovie's bin to my desktop, then import this file into fcp, it captures using aic. no breaks, but its the only alterntive right now.

funny how imovie can capture and fcp can't.

Well, I was hoping to be back with an answer to Andrew's sync question. But, alas, it was not meant to be. Instead, I come begging for anyone who might have a faster bloody way to do this. The capture to .m2t via DVHSCap went fine, if a bit slow. (Next corporate purchase: Firestores)

But the transcode is just bogging down. I set it up to transcode to "Apple HDV 720p30", and let it rip. An hour later, it wasn't even halfway through the 53 minute clip. Streamclip was reporting a data rate of like 2mb/s. Since it's obvious I'm not going to get a lot of productive capturing done, I canceled it, and started experimenting.

Running it through at AIC reports 30-odd mb/s, but it's still still working at effectively realtime. Which kinda irks me. I'm ok with running the tapes through in realtime once to capture, but running at effectively half-realtime is a bit tedious.

Now, so I don't have to get out my fireproof undies, I know transcoding is a beast. My concern is not that transcoding takes forever, which I more or less expect it to. My concern is that I have to transcode in order to get the files into FCP effectively.

I know there are a bunch of folks out there who are making it work for them (Tim? Nate? Paulo?) and I'm wondering if I'm just doing something totally moronic and wrong, or if they're just infinitely more patient than I am.

Ben,

Are you seeing the clip segmentation issue on tapes that were shot after the camera was upgraded to "a" version?

FYI: Our product engineers are looking into this issure as we speak.

Regards, Carl

Carl,
All of the footage was shot last weekend. I actually only bought the cameras around 3-4 weeks ago. (Actually went into my dealer the day they shipped their stock out to get upgraded)

Apologies if my last post sounded a bit testy. I've been beating my head against this since I got back into town last night and found out what had happened when my roommate captured the tapes.

It's good to hear that a solution is being worked on. And it's definitely refreshing that you guys take the effort to cruise these boards.

i'm seeing the same problem. i have the a version as well. i bought the cameras about a few weeks ago also.

Carl I've been on location and haven't had much of a chance to check on this, but apparently yes...all our tapes now being captured in 30p with the "A" model are still exhibiting the broken clip syndrome.

We just finished capturing the 6-camera Tunica shoot from late April and not one issue discussed here was found after 18 hours of tape. We're using Adobe's PPro2.0 so is it really a JVC issues or an FCP problem?

Jonathan,

I've heard of the issue only with Final Cut. We have engineers now looking at this to isolate and resolve it.

Well clearly it's a JVC/FCP issue that JVC identified and thought they had fixed with the "A" upgrade.
This is from the HD100 "A" upgrade site FAQ page:

"Will this address the problem of segmented frames during capture?

Certain NLE's have experienced issues with scenes being broken into shorter segments (clips) during capture. This upgrade addresses this issue"

It was one of the couple of key fixes with the upgrade, and apparently it didn't fix the problem...universally at least.

I see it as a combination of both. JVC has a responsibility to get their camera working with the various NLEs out there, and Apple has a responsibility to make FCP work with all the various cameras. I've sent emails to Apple, and have yet to see a response, whereas JVC (Personified here as Carl) made a response only a few hours after my post. I have more hope of a solution from JVC at this point.

As an update for those who are struggling with this problem, I fired up the HDVxDV trial this morning, and tried transcoding my giant 53 minute clip. After a few false starts, I got an AIC transcode running. Final verdict? It's kinda faster. About 25-30 minutes. Which is better than 55-60 minutes for a 53 minute clip. And for Andrew: The Sync looks ok. It's an extra-wide shot of the entire ceremony, so honestly I can't tell that well. I'm burning it off to check on my projector right now.

So, I guess this raises a question: Do I really want to pay for a piece of software to do something that FCP should do for free? (Well, Ok, the $1200 I already paid) If I had 24p footage, I'd be all over it. But I don't.

This is me admitting that I'm a moron. :P

Apparently, in my high-stress state last night, when I captured the tapes using AIC in FCP, I didn't actually bother LOOKING at them. I saw the file breaks, and said "Hey, this didn't work."

However, upon actually viewing the clips, and doing a bit of reading on how AIC handles captures, I find, amazingly enough, that this is exactly how AIC works. It is supposed to break the clips at start/stops. The difference being, AIC actually captures everything. So yes, there are still a bunch of little files, but they're complete little files.

I'm ok with this. It's not optimal, and being able to capture/work natively would be nice, but it's not the end of the world.

Thanks for the sync info Ben. Let me know if you see any of your transcoded material drifting.

As for your broken clips, it sounds like they are at start/stops where they're supposed to be, not in the middle of clips as some others are experiencing. Is that right?

Yeah, they are. I'm begining to understand that my problem is more a function of how FCP handles timecode jumps, and not a function of camera error. Wow, I feel sheepish.

It's still kind of annoying that FCP takes ~5 seconds to lock back onto the stream when it hits a TC break in native HDV. Wouldn't really be a big deal if I were shooting commercials, or whatnot, since I'd run 20-30 seconds of preroll anyways. But shooting weddings and events, sometimes you've got the "Hey, look at that!" moment, where the content of the shot starts in the first couple seconds. Not the best shooting technique, I know, but a mans got to sit down sometimes.

But anyways, since my problem seems to be based on a lack of understanding, rather than a technical glitch, I'll bow out and go pore dig through my manuals some more.

Capture JVC HDV From iMovie HD to FCP
 

Dear Dave,

I've been Suffering the exactly same problem with you, shooting in HDV - 720p30 mode by JVC GY-HD100, using SONY DVM63HDC tape in Rec run TC mode. And the timecode brake frequently when capture via FCP in HDV native, even in the middle of a long take but the end or start part of it.

The way I try to get my video into FCP is, capture via iMove HD in AIC codec (it seems no problem with broken timecode issue so far). Then get the clip file within the iMovie HD file(select the file and use "Show the package Contents" function to get into it.)

Directly drag the clips into FCP project, then edit... no more transcode before the final export!

best
Chunyang

Chunyang,

So it is possible to open the iMovie HD pkg and drag the captures directly to FCPro? How do I set this to AIC in iMovie? I guess I was just assuming the files were coming in as HDV.

Dave

Dave,

When you open an new project, select HDV (whether 720p or 1080i), iMove HD set AIC as default codec (and there's no option to make change). so, it'll automaticaly capture HDV in AIC format.

Chunyang

i don't think there is a preset, it just captures the video by default (i think) in AIC.

do you have any problems capturing long cllips, say a full tape? i'm using an imac 1.8 g5 and it falls behind when i capture and after i stop the import, the computer captures the remaining video that got left behind.

you can also drag the clip in iMovie's bin to the desktop also.

Yooch

I did import full tape, no problem so far, but due to AIC, it need to transform the HDV video to AIC during capture, you have to wait for the render procedure.(and the speed depends on your hardware)

I use my Powerbook G4 1.67G with 1.5G RAM inside, the speed of transcode in iMove HD is about 1/4 of realtime. Not good enough, but, at least it's work.

Chunyang

you don't need to render if the video preferences are set to AIC. make sure the sequence is set to AIC and you shouldn't have to render. unless you want to move it the HDV and not use AIC.

My sad story
 

Well "A" version does not seem to help with broken clips in FCPro. One of our producers loaded 2 projects today from an "A" camera shoot. Each tape segmented the clips into 80-100 individual clips. I made sure to ask if the segments were during continuous roll, not just on the pause.

Even though this is listed on the JVC update page as a fix.

I can send the tape or clips to anyone in engineering who would like to check it out. Or camera for that matter. I just had our third "A" update performed to fix this problem.

So. I still have to find a way to tell the crew they will have to redigitize the 20 hours of material for the reality show. I just don't want to choose the wrong path, like I did using Firewire HDV capture into FCPro.

I wish I could tell them, "Hey look JVC and Apple will have a fix in two weeks."

But it just doesn't look like that's going to happen. Any suggestions from those wiser than me?

Dave

What I mean "render" is, when you are capturing in iMovie, due to the AIC, I have to wait for transcoding. And of course there's no need to render in FCP sequence if it set to AIC.

Chunyang

Hi Dave,

As you may have read earlier in this thread, some users have found the problem to be not with the camera, but with FCP itself - perhaps a setting?

In any case, our customer service techs are wanting to talk directly to anyone who is experiencing this issue to try and help. They may want to see the camera, your tapes, or both. Please send me your full daytime contact info - phone, e-mail, and location, so I can get someone to call you.

Regards,

Carl