Another Final Cut Update, JVC Users Snubbed Again
 

Final Cut Released an Update last night that is not a numbered change, but added this:

1080/24P HDV Compressor

It is designed (I assume) for the Canon's 24F although Capture is still not possible. Why wasn't a 720/24P HDV added also considering it has been out for SO LONG!

This is just me ranting again at Apple. This again says that the 720/24P update is probably coming soon, but I keep saying that and we keep getting screwed. I am still putting my money on late August after the Apple convention.

I hope they have a good excuse - like they are busy working on the new FCP and Pro Mac Tower with built-in HD-SDI I/O, Realtime critical HD monitoring, a load of internal hard drive bays...etc

"Unconfirmed sources" and from what I hear... Apple is re-building FCP 6, the next major release, for Intel -based Macs compatibility and they will include the 24P HDV feature in that update, and not until then. Expected in the fall.

And so I will wait to get a Mac till they get this worked out......

Now this is interesting. Both Avid and Apple have been promising HDV1 24/25/50fps support 'soon' for a very long time and now it looks like they'll both be bringing it to market very very late at pretty much the same time. Anyone here know what's really going on?

Avid supporting the JVC (outside of Liquid)? At least we know FCP can support it once this major update is released but Avid's next major release of Xpress Pro (5.5) will not.

That's what I mean. AXPro 5.5 is out very soon. The next Avid full release will - we're told - support HDV1 fully. That one will be out 'Q4 2006'. This puts Avid and Apple very close. Both companies have been promising since autumn 2005. Co-incidence?

And yes, I'm ignoring Liquid. The future is not bright for what's left from Fast...

I didn't hear about the Avid 6, although things are starting to sound fishy. You would think that Apple or Avid would try to get one up on the other and release theirs first, but it doesn't appear that way.

P**'d off
 

I bought this camera after hearing they'd demo'd FCP 24P at NAB.
And I've waited, and used hdvxdv (thanks, but not ideal).
C'mon, why demo stuff at all?

Yep. It really is fishy now. Both Apple and Avid keep on promising and it really can't be hard. Both have had 30fps for some time and Avid even has a DNx codec for 720/25p already. Avid tell me that they've had to focus on other things like Interplay but this parallel delay from Apple makes me very suspicious indeed. I'll bet JVC are less than happy. There's an Avid logo on the HD100 box but they (and Apple) still haven't followed through and it really must be hurting JVC by now. I know that Edius can handle it and that there are work-arounds for FCP and plug-ins for Premiere but, without native support from Avid and Apple, ProHD is being unfairly hamstrung by companies that announced full HDV1 support last year at the launch of the HD100. What gives? Does anyone actually know?

There are and it is rediculous. I really would have like the 720/24P Compressor in FCP. If they did that, Focus could have started working on the 720/24P Wrapper and then we don't have to wait for the FCP update.

I was at NAB and I saw the apple FCP 24p demode and it looked like it was working great, I watched it for about an hour almost bought the 17" apple note book pro it was being demo'ed on but I also want an HDV burner so I am also going to wait for both. I can tell you that the demonstration of 24p in Final Cut Pro was working very well.

And that's what pisses everyone off! They have it, but nothing yet! I really think that the entire Stuido Update will be unvailed along with the "MAC PRO" towers at the Mac conference in August.

Yes, I think your right about that and that's what I am holding out for.

Apple was very clear this was not a demo of what they plan to ship. It was a hacked version of 30p support. What they lid about was that something was coming soon.

Simply put, both Apple and Avid need to incorporate a general MPEG-2 engine that works as universally as a hardware codec. So far they have simply hacked in 1080i60 and 720p30 support. Just like the hacked 24p we saw at NAB.

This MPEG engine needs to be integrated into the current engine so ANYTHING can be in a timeline.

I realize many would settle for much less, but I'm convinced Avid and Apple are going to do it "right" no matter how long we have to wait.

And I am willing to wait, if your correct Steve and they do it right and fit it with an HDV burner it won't matter what they come out with in the next several years, I think it will be a good time to throw the money on the table so to speak for allot of people. I personaly will be able to do just about anything I want creatively, with a level of quality I can be content with that's in a reasonable price range and offers very little limitation. I personaly can see my self being content with the technology at hand for some time if this is infact where we end up in the fall, which is what I am hopping for as I continue to to collect footage for future projects I hope to be working on in the fall of this year.

Well, I expect that both companies will get it right when they finally release their updates but I suspect that the delay is less a question of getting it right and more a question of getting around to it! It wouldn't really be so annoying if they didn't keep promising without delivering. Avid's official line is now 'Q4 2006' but I was told by Avid reps at IBC 2005 (September) that full HDV1 support would be coming in 'weeks' and 'certainly by the end of the year'. Then it was, helpfully, '2006'. I phoned Avid UK in January and was told 'Wait for NAB - you should be pleasantly surprised'. These are direct quotes, which Avid are now, of course, blaming on rogue employees! Similarly, Apple have been promising support in the 'next maintenance release' for some time. Well, it seems that wasn't true either.

I have had an off-the-record chat with a certain individual in one of these companies and I'm told that 720p/25/50/24 just was not seen as a priority and was deliberately repeatedly postponed to make way for other more lucrative projects. It's a real pain for us, of course, and I'm sure JVC Europe is not too pleased either.

I jumped on board the Apple boat about 3 years ago and have had a very good experience so far. In general they are very forward thinking and are always at the forefront of computer technology!

It baffles me how they can delay something like 24p support, considering it is at the forefront of digital film technology!! I thought that they would be in the thick of it helping the indie film maker. I mean they really have been pushing the whole HD thing with all their video products - so why not 720p 24 or 25?

Maybe Holywood is more up their street now...

Andrew

With more HDV Cameras sold and near in the future PC's comming out with HDV burners this year, I think it will be a priority now. I think who ever comes out with the package deal first is going to get a big share in the market! It would be wise to speed this up asap as long as their are no preformance issues with the product delaying delivery.

I bought a G5 a year ago believing in "Apple" and its dedication the video market. Well, I sold my G5 and built a PC to edit. Will Apple lose me forever? I dunno... maybe. I sure got a lot more PC for my money than I had in my G5.

I sympathise. I've been a big Apple fan for some time but the G5 really isn't all that fast and Apple really aren't particularly cutting edge these days. When you put away the rose-tinted spectacles Apple products aren't spectacular and you can usually do a lot more - or at least just as much - with a decent Wintel machine. FCP's biggest flaw is that it ties you to one rather over-hyped platform. Sure, many things about Apple are good but it's important not to believe the hype!

Most computers are rubbish IMHO!

Anyway, it really does suck that full HDV1 support STILL isn't here. On that I think we can all agree.

I think we have unanimity on the sucking part.

+1 To that

I spoke to a UK JVC rep at the production show and yes, the statement "I'll bet JVC are less than happy" is very true...

I find this lack of 720p24 particularly odd since it is possible to import it into iMovie (as 720p59.94 AIC), then reconform it to 23.98 in cinematools, then import it into FCP, and there it is, on the timeline, as AIC 720p24. One has to import the audio seperately, but, at least in a sub-optimal way, it's already there. I can't see that it would be a major programming problem to formalize it. I can only conclude that there is another reason that has perhaps to do with economics and market collusion (which is baseless speculation on my part, but what else has Apple given us to go on?). Why else would Apple continue to drag its feet in supporting the best film-like video format yet for the under $20k crowd?

Aren't there Apple folks on this website? What, indeed, gives?

Did someone at JVC steal Steve Job's girlfriend when they were kids?

I swear it almost seems personal. They had the HVX supported before it was released.

Well DVC PRO HD is a older Codec so it was only the matter of supporting P2 media.

That reason is not nearly as entertaining. :-P

And Cineform (a couple programmers?) managed to figure it out... hey wait - Newman's the guy who stole Job's girlfriend. Aha!

I am not defending Apple or Avid for not Supporting the Pro HD Format. Both are clearly just Lazy or Snubbing and should have had it supported by now.

Maybe this whole Shake thing has something to do with it. Apple have a strange way of totally ignoring its users while it works on releasing a 'revolutionary' new product - maybe FCP is in the process of being totally rewitten.

Or maybe the 720p bloke has been off on extended leave...


Drew

Maybe the fact that the BBC went off on one a while back on using the Panasonic HVX200 and also use FCP alot is why it was supported (in UK terms) quickly, talking to the BBC it's all you heard about, now of course they seem a little less sure of the future but continue there year long test into the P2 system in general.

Now the whole issue I have with the Apple system is the main issue here as well, it's a closed system, everyone must wait for Apple, it's the same buying into Avid and it's what will hold those two back in the long term, it's the one reason I believe Adobe have struck the right concept so that even if Adobe are slow at releasing something it means a 3rd party who saw the need can fill it and we can all get on film making, I neither land on any side of the fence PC or Mac wise or indeed what people actually use edit software wise BUT I do land on the side of what works for Indie program and film makers and it leaves me using Adobe PP2 etc. I just wish Apple and Avid would get off there backsides and support the JVC, I love my 101E and it's a camera that deserves universal support NOW.

Here is what I believe happened:

When the JVC was unvailed at NAB 2005 (I think I am correct on this date) the first model in all the tests were very faulty. Like in the first round of the "24" test and others massive SSE was present and the camera was not useable. I really think that Apple and Avid thought that the ProHD JVC was as good as dead. I don't think many people thought the JVC would get fixed and have a great rebound with massive support (They were wrong). Then Apple was totally involved in the Intel Crossover, so all the Final Cut Studio Apps had to first be converted to the new Intel chips before anything really new is going into them. Now they still are working on their "MAC PRO" which is the real Editing Workhorse (Like the G5) and have decided to just unvail them together.

Avid is largely an Editing Company, so they have no excuse.

The Canon People are waiting for their 24f and 30f, but their camera has only be around since the beginning of the year, so they can wait! Just kidding you Canon people.

As I said before, the HVX200 was able to be supported so easily because DVCPRO HD was already being used and the format was already in FCP 4.5 HD. It was only then about intergrating P2 which seemed easy for them to do.

It appears that Avid were too busy working on Interplay and getting Mac support up to PC levels and were not prepared to allocate resources to HDV1. However, I think this is lame and I agree that they really have no excuse. Btw, Avid also doesn't support DVCProHD 720p/25 to the best of my knowledge, so it appears FCP is well ahead on that one.

I just hope that both Avid and Apple are monitoring this board because there are a lot of upset people. We are using Canopus Edius at the moment. It has a long long way to go to be a mature edit system but I'm going to keep an eye on it and will gladly move over properly if and when it's ready.

When I get a Intel Mac I plan on buying Edius. Version 4 is adding Professional Features like multicam. It looks like a good editor. I really would like to test it out, but it will never be a OSX program.