How HD200 holds up for pan/chase fast cast crossing in front of you? at DVinfo.net

Kaku Ito · February 19th, 2007, 06:21 PM

How HD200 holds up for pan/chase fast cast crossing in front of you? Especially in the grass area. Every 1080 HDV camera I tried failed in this test. I wonder how would 720/60p of HD200 keep from breaking up.

Steve Mullen · February 19th, 2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

How HD200 holds up for pan/chase fast cast crossing in front of you? Especially in the grass area. Every 1080 HDV camera I tried failed in this test. I wonder how would 720/60p of HD200 keep from breaking up.

I just finished my Digital Content Producer review of the 250.

One of my tests was cars going past while I sat on a bus bench. Some cars slow, some fast, some very fast, some turning. Lots of different motion vectors.

Perfect 60p recordings. I've even transferred to HD DVD at 25Mbps VBR -- and it still is perfect.

Adam Letch · February 19th, 2007, 10:08 PM

Gday Steve,

is there a URL for the review yet, I went to Digital Content site an couldn't find the article. It will be pivital in helping me decide. I was all amped for the HD250, and then started hearing probs about excess noise being introduced, and noisy fan units which has scared me away a little.
As there seems to be little content to download at the moment, there's no benchmark to go by, I know Stephen and maybe another have posted some slow mo stuff, but nothing to the degree of Brian Duke or there was another guy, please forgive me, I can't find it under the sticky finished links, but he put together a montage of images using the different scene files, and that was just excellent to show off the JVCs capability. I know Paolo is in the throws of making new scene files with the new encoder.
I'm even thinking the Sony PDW-F350 might be my only option, which will require a lot more financing than originally planned. Hmm

Steve Mullen · February 20th, 2007, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Letch

Gday Steve,

is there a URL for the review yet, I went to Digital Content site an couldn't find the article. It will be pivital in helping me decide. I was all amped for the HD250, and then started hearing probs about excess noise being introduced, and noisy fan units which has scared me away a little.

Because it is a print mag -- it will be March.

Fan noise? I never heard any. You would need to check in a hot studio.

Excess noise? Compared to what? The HD100/110? Compared to a 1/2-inch CCD camera?

Justin Ferar · February 20th, 2007, 12:51 AM

Kaku,

I just completed my third shoot with the HD200. We shoot wedding/corporate events and ENG type stuff which are mostly run and gun- perfect for judging motion handling of the codec.

I will say that the image breaks up during extreme conditions like running with the camera (something that happens to me when I forget to stop rolling tape and I don't see till reviewing the footage in the studio).

All I can conclude is that it's not perfect and will break up during extreme conditions. I would be interested to see if it does this at higher shutter speeds, which I have not tested.

Hope this helps.

Mark Montgomery · February 20th, 2007, 03:33 PM

Here is the HD200 review from Videomaker:
http://www.videomaker.com/article/13192/

Jack Walker · February 20th, 2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Montgomery

Here is the HD200 review from Videomaker:
http://www.videomaker.com/article/13192/

The review is clear and to the point, and it sounds pretty much like what has been reported here by the early users.

To the get the best audio, it seems like a mixer will help a lot -- but this is the case with any camera.

Jiri Bakala · February 20th, 2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Fan noise? I never heard any. You would need to check in a hot studio.

It may be that it's not so pronounced with the HD250 but it's sure there with the HD200. And it has nothing to do with ambient temperature. Here is also a mention from a Videomaker article:
"...There is also a tiny fan at the rear of the component/DC coupler that produces a very small amount of high frequency white noise. This might be an issue only in the quietest shooting environments."
http://www.videomaker.com/article/13192/

Sean Adair · February 20th, 2007, 04:44 PM

"...peaking indicator outlines what is in focus in blue. A peaking dial allows you to control just how much of the critical area of focus is indicated by the assist--a very useful feature."

Well the color and sensitivity are adjustable in the menus, but the peaking dial is disabled in focus assist mode. The effect is similar to peaking, but I don't think it is identical. It is especially powerul when used with the "accu-focus" setting - which isn't explained that well. I had this on a switch with the GY-DV500. It temporarilly opens the iris while compensating exposure to minimize DOF while finding critical focus. Of course, this should be disabled for adjustment while shooting...

"AGC worked well but still gave us what seemed like more headroom than necessary."
They were expecting levels at -12db, which is the recomended setting for DV audio. However, the manual clearly states that the recommended peak level is -20db for HDV's MPG-1 audio. The AGC is clearly set for that. The noise they heard is almost certainly from the built-in mic they were using in these "tests". That and AGC clearly are not appropriate for anything but ambient audio.

"...don't expect to switch recording modes on the fly."
Why on earth would you want to? It takes maybe 10 secs max to be ready to shoot in a new mode. The panasonic HDX is exactly the same in taking a little time to reset modes.

"a very small amount of high frequency white noise. "
well, at least this is minimized, perhaps the reviewer was browsing our list for complaints? It really isn't different from other pro style camcorders, and I can't imagine it ever being an issue in a situation using proper micing.

"WEAKNESSES No optional auto focus or image stabilization; price."
Really trolling here. Optional autofocus!? OMG! None of the cameras, video, SD,HD, or film at this quality range and above have autofocus for very good reasons. Image stabilization is that soft pad on the bottom the camera! You don't use it with tripods... (OK... I'm pushing it)
I guess having image stabilization would be cool if well implemented.
I did like that on the HDX for handheld fake crane shots and circumambulating victims (er, subjects).

Well, I guess videomaker isn't really the market for this camera, and in all fairness, it was more positive than negative!

Kaku Ito · February 23rd, 2007, 11:19 AM

Thanks all for the input.
I guess I'd have to put it in my situation, but I would imagine that it will do somewhat better than others.

How do you people think GY-HDs perform in the dark surrounding comparing to HVX200? So far, I find that Canon HDV cams are the best for shooting in the dark without gain boosted up.

Joel Aaron · February 26th, 2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

How do you people think GY-HDs perform in the dark surrounding comparing to HVX200? So far, I find that Canon HDV cams are the best for shooting in the dark without gain boosted up.

Canon's might be best - but the HD-100's F1.4 lens makes it a better low light camera than the HVX... not to mention the legendary HVX-200 noise in the lower mid-tones.

Greg Boston · February 26th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Adair

"WEAKNESSES No optional auto focus or image stabilization; price."
Really trolling here. Optional autofocus!? OMG! None of the cameras, video, SD,HD, or film at this quality range and above have autofocus for very good reasons. Image stabilization is that soft pad on the bottom the camera! You don't use it with tripods...

Image stabilization and auto focus are being offered on higher end HD stuff, but not built in to the camera. Fujinon has some options. With the critical nature of focusing in HD, well implemented auto focusing is very useful in some scenarios. With extremely powerful zoom lenses, image stabilization becomes critical also.

http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/cgi-...cgi?parent=344

http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/cgi-...ucts.cgi?p=238

-gb-

Sean Adair · February 28th, 2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Image stabilization and auto focus are being offered on higher end HD stuff, but not built in to the camera. Fujinon has some options. With the critical nature of focusing in HD, well implemented auto focusing is very useful in some scenarios. With extremely powerful zoom lenses, image stabilization becomes critical also.

http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/cgi-...cgi?parent=344

http://www.fujinonbroadcast.com/cgi-...ucts.cgi?p=238

-gb-

I stand corrected! Thanks for the links Greg. I was getting a bit loose with the cannon towards the end of that rant. Those lens accessories are mighty cool. I'll bet they are pricy too... Maybe we'll get trickledown of this kind of implemention of these features. Lenses with built-in optical stabilization would be especially nice.

Sean Adair · February 28th, 2007, 11:52 AM

kaku,
To get back to your original question (sorry for the digressions) - Have you looked at the video in this post:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...422#post633422
Some good looking swish pans.

Tim Dashwood · February 28th, 2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Adair

I stand corrected! Thanks for the links Greg. I was getting a bit loose with the cannon towards the end of that rant. Those lens accessories are mighty cool. I'll bet they are pricy too... Maybe we'll get trickledown of this kind of implemention of these features. Lenses with built-in optical stabilization would be especially nice.

Keep in mind that the lenses Greg linked to will work with the ProHD series of camera with the 1/3" to 2/3" adapter. (ACM-17)
The HA13x4.5BRD/PF would be even wider than the stock 16x5.5 lens that ships with the JVC cameras.

The OS-TECH External image stabilizer would probably even work.

Who knows how much the device retails for?

The point is that standardized bayonet mount is the main attraction of professional ENG style cameras. The options are endless - and this should have been pointed out in that article.

February 19th, 2007, 06:21 PM	#1
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	How HD200 holds up for pan/chase fast cast crossing in front of you? How HD200 holds up for pan/chase fast cast crossing in front of you? Especially in the grass area. Every 1080 HDV camera I tried failed in this test. I wonder how would 720/60p of HD200 keep from breaking up.

February 19th, 2007, 10:08 PM	#3
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Digital content review Gday Steve, is there a URL for the review yet, I went to Digital Content site an couldn't find the article. It will be pivital in helping me decide. I was all amped for the HD250, and then started hearing probs about excess noise being introduced, and noisy fan units which has scared me away a little. As there seems to be little content to download at the moment, there's no benchmark to go by, I know Stephen and maybe another have posted some slow mo stuff, but nothing to the degree of Brian Duke or there was another guy, please forgive me, I can't find it under the sticky finished links, but he put together a montage of images using the different scene files, and that was just excellent to show off the JVCs capability. I know Paolo is in the throws of making new scene files with the new encoder. I'm even thinking the Sony PDW-F350 might be my only option, which will require a lot more financing than originally planned. Hmm

February 20th, 2007, 12:51 AM	#5
Justin Ferar Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Larkspur, CA Posts: 378	Kaku, I just completed my third shoot with the HD200. We shoot wedding/corporate events and ENG type stuff which are mostly run and gun- perfect for judging motion handling of the codec. I will say that the image breaks up during extreme conditions like running with the camera (something that happens to me when I forget to stop rolling tape and I don't see till reviewing the footage in the studio). All I can conclude is that it's not perfect and will break up during extreme conditions. I would be interested to see if it does this at higher shutter speeds, which I have not tested. Hope this helps. __________________ www.justinferar.com www.weddingsonfilm.com

February 20th, 2007, 03:33 PM	#6
Mark Montgomery New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 14	Videomaker has their review Here is the HD200 review from Videomaker: http://www.videomaker.com/article/13192/

February 20th, 2007, 04:44 PM	#9
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	videomaker review errors/disputes "...peaking indicator outlines what is in focus in blue. A peaking dial allows you to control just how much of the critical area of focus is indicated by the assist--a very useful feature." Well the color and sensitivity are adjustable in the menus, but the peaking dial is disabled in focus assist mode. The effect is similar to peaking, but I don't think it is identical. It is especially powerul when used with the "accu-focus" setting - which isn't explained that well. I had this on a switch with the GY-DV500. It temporarilly opens the iris while compensating exposure to minimize DOF while finding critical focus. Of course, this should be disabled for adjustment while shooting... "AGC worked well but still gave us what seemed like more headroom than necessary." They were expecting levels at -12db, which is the recomended setting for DV audio. However, the manual clearly states that the recommended peak level is -20db for HDV's MPG-1 audio. The AGC is clearly set for that. The noise they heard is almost certainly from the built-in mic they were using in these "tests". That and AGC clearly are not appropriate for anything but ambient audio. "...don't expect to switch recording modes on the fly." Why on earth would you want to? It takes maybe 10 secs max to be ready to shoot in a new mode. The panasonic HDX is exactly the same in taking a little time to reset modes. "a very small amount of high frequency white noise. " well, at least this is minimized, perhaps the reviewer was browsing our list for complaints? It really isn't different from other pro style camcorders, and I can't imagine it ever being an issue in a situation using proper micing. "WEAKNESSES No optional auto focus or image stabilization; price." Really trolling here. Optional autofocus!? OMG! None of the cameras, video, SD,HD, or film at this quality range and above have autofocus for very good reasons. Image stabilization is that soft pad on the bottom the camera! You don't use it with tripods... (OK... I'm pushing it) I guess having image stabilization would be cool if well implemented. I did like that on the HDX for handheld fake crane shots and circumambulating victims (er, subjects). Well, I guess videomaker isn't really the market for this camera, and in all fairness, it was more positive than negative! __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

February 23rd, 2007, 11:19 AM	#10
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Thanks all for the input. I guess I'd have to put it in my situation, but I would imagine that it will do somewhat better than others. How do you people think GY-HDs perform in the dark surrounding comparing to HVX200? So far, I find that Canon HDV cams are the best for shooting in the dark without gain boosted up.

February 28th, 2007, 11:52 AM	#14
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	kaku, To get back to your original question (sorry for the digressions) - Have you looked at the video in this post: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...422#post633422 Some good looking swish pans. __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)