Noise on HD200/250

Eugen Oprina · April 2nd, 2007, 07:40 AM

I tried too. It dosn't work.
E

Sean Adair · April 2nd, 2007, 09:01 AM

Funny, the link is to a .mov file, but when I right click to dl linked file in safari, it just downloads a html page with the .mov link in a frame. Maybe .mac trickery?
In any case, I just left the page open for a while, and the .mov eventually loaded.

This issue we are looking at is all very important stuff to those of with 200 series cameras and those considering them, so I hope we can keep this on the ball, and share settings that help, as well as consider the possibility and need for firmware changes etc.

I love the look and feel of this camera, but I can see that the noise I have in some shots would be an issue, especially if displayed larger. I also suspect that noise puts quite a bit more stress on the codec, which is already working like a demon! (I mean that in a good way!)

Tyson Perkins · April 2nd, 2007, 08:39 PM

Not just those who are intending to purchase - but those who have purchased expecting better results and have not got them as well

Tim Dashwood · April 2nd, 2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Duke

I tried. It just says there is an error opening. There is no option to Save As.

It is in my public folder, so you can drag and drop form there as well.

Eric Gulbransen · April 2nd, 2007, 10:21 PM

Combing through this forum daily makes me feel like a seagull following a charter boat, just waiting for the fishermen to throw out some scraps...

I'm definitely keyed in on this noise issue because sometimes I've got it
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...mattBeach2.jpg

and sometimes I don't
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...es/flowers.jpg

Surely I've noticed the noise most often in the lower light areas, but in a clear blue sky at 2pm in the afternoon?
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...mages/gull.jpg

I'm sure anxious to learn what the hell I'm missing here...

Brian Duke · April 3rd, 2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

It is in my public folder, so you can drag and drop form there as well.

Got it. I know what the problem is. It says I need certain components to play it and it takes me to apple's plug in website. http://www.apple.com/quicktime/resou...btype=68647634

Problem is I don't know which one to download. Any suggestions?

Tim Dashwood · April 3rd, 2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Duke

Got it. I know what the problem is. It says I need certain components to play it and it takes me to apple's plug in website. http://www.apple.com/quicktime/resou...btype=68647634

Problem is I don't know which one to download. Any suggestions?

You don't need any of those components.

If you have FCP 5.1.2 properly installed it will play fine. It was simply captured native QT HDV 720p24 and saved as a native QT HDV 720P24 file, so it is equivalent to camera original.

Chad Terpstra · April 3rd, 2007, 12:46 PM

Yeah, the colors on the HD200 look better and more saturated throughout. But it's not a big surprise because the Cine-like and standard config of the HD100 color matrix were rather dull to begin with. That's what started Paulo and Stephen on their quest for better colors to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me if JVC changed the defaults on the new model based on what they found.

What would be interesting to see is if you could calibrate each camera with a DSC chart until they both read the same and then do the various gamma and scene tests. Also I find it much more helpful to point the camera at people and scenery when doing comparisons. Charts never give you what you really need to know -how it works in the real world and how the images make you feel.

Hopefully there is a fix for the noise issue. I too find it to be somewhat random. I've never seen it on sky that bad before... Could operating temperature be a factor? Humidity?

Tyson Perkins · April 3rd, 2007, 06:28 PM

no - i definately think its a hardware problem - everyone whom i have met so far (that hasnt been shooting in very well lit situations - actually looking at those images - even some very will lit situations) has had noise problems. We need to get some kind of official finding on the topic - so i think Tim should make his best effort as soon as possible (if not Tim someone else - although Tim's expertise is always great) to do a comparison and make an 'official' finding

Tyson Perkins · April 5th, 2007, 02:26 AM

any news Tim?

Stephen L. Noe · April 5th, 2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

You don't need any of those components.

If you have FCP 5.1.2 properly installed it will play fine. It was simply captured native QT HDV 720p24 and saved as a native QT HDV 720P24 file, so it is equivalent to camera original.

This file will not play on my system either. Is there a direct link to the file so I can try in VLC?

Adam Letch · April 12th, 2007, 05:10 AM

it's like so close to my purchase now, and I'm really still in the balance, everything in your head says the HD200 is the obvious choice, but if you image is going to be poor vs the HD110 under similar circumstances. Then it's hard to convince yourself to fork out the extra $2000.

Tim, without trying to pester you as I'm sure you very busy, are you at least part way into your findings? Can you give us a part update?

Appreciate your hard work and contribution to the community.

Cheers

Adam

Sean Adair · April 12th, 2007, 06:20 PM

Ok, I've just had an example of very noisy image in a well exposed picture (a lot of sky, sun behind dark clouds. It's the mosquito quilt look. No gain, no slow shutter. Meanwhile other shots are smooth as silk. I can't figure it out.
Either there is some adjustment that needs to be made with the camera, or I have to figure how to avoid this with specific settings.

Tyson Perkins · April 12th, 2007, 06:37 PM

yes very similar symptoms to my cam. I attempted to film yesterday mornings sun rise - but with the gain low and no slow shutter is just got some kind of muddled mess of an image far from what i should be expecting

Tyson Perkins · April 12th, 2007, 06:42 PM

could you possibly upload a still from your images Sean?

April 2nd, 2007, 09:01 AM	#17
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	Funny, the link is to a .mov file, but when I right click to dl linked file in safari, it just downloads a html page with the .mov link in a frame. Maybe .mac trickery? In any case, I just left the page open for a while, and the .mov eventually loaded. This issue we are looking at is all very important stuff to those of with 200 series cameras and those considering them, so I hope we can keep this on the ball, and share settings that help, as well as consider the possibility and need for firmware changes etc. I love the look and feel of this camera, but I can see that the noise I have in some shots would be an issue, especially if displayed larger. I also suspect that noise puts quite a bit more stress on the codec, which is already working like a demon! (I mean that in a good way!) __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

April 2nd, 2007, 10:21 PM	#20
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	HD200 struggling still(s) Combing through this forum daily makes me feel like a seagull following a charter boat, just waiting for the fishermen to throw out some scraps... I'm definitely keyed in on this noise issue because sometimes I've got it http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...mattBeach2.jpg and sometimes I don't http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...es/flowers.jpg Surely I've noticed the noise most often in the lower light areas, but in a clear blue sky at 2pm in the afternoon? http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...mages/gull.jpg I'm sure anxious to learn what the hell I'm missing here...

April 12th, 2007, 05:10 AM	#27
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Please guys don't let this thread die it's like so close to my purchase now, and I'm really still in the balance, everything in your head says the HD200 is the obvious choice, but if you image is going to be poor vs the HD110 under similar circumstances. Then it's hard to convince yourself to fork out the extra $2000. Tim, without trying to pester you as I'm sure you very busy, are you at least part way into your findings? Can you give us a part update? Appreciate your hard work and contribution to the community. Cheers Adam

April 12th, 2007, 06:20 PM	#28
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	Ok, I've just had an example of very noisy image in a well exposed picture (a lot of sky, sun behind dark clouds. It's the mosquito quilt look. No gain, no slow shutter. Meanwhile other shots are smooth as silk. I can't figure it out. Either there is some adjustment that needs to be made with the camera, or I have to figure how to avoid this with specific settings. __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

April 12th, 2007, 06:37 PM	#29
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	yes very similar symptoms to my cam. I attempted to film yesterday mornings sun rise - but with the gain low and no slow shutter is just got some kind of muddled mess of an image far from what i should be expecting Last edited by Tyson Perkins; April 12th, 2007 at 06:40 PM. Reason: more info

April 2nd, 2007, 07:40 AM	#16
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	I tried too. It dosn't work. E

April 2nd, 2007, 08:39 PM	#18
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	Not just those who are intending to purchase - but those who have purchased expecting better results and have not got them as well

April 3rd, 2007, 12:46 PM	#23
Chad Terpstra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 320	Yeah, the colors on the HD200 look better and more saturated throughout. But it's not a big surprise because the Cine-like and standard config of the HD100 color matrix were rather dull to begin with. That's what started Paulo and Stephen on their quest for better colors to begin with. It wouldn't surprise me if JVC changed the defaults on the new model based on what they found. What would be interesting to see is if you could calibrate each camera with a DSC chart until they both read the same and then do the various gamma and scene tests. Also I find it much more helpful to point the camera at people and scenery when doing comparisons. Charts never give you what you really need to know -how it works in the real world and how the images make you feel. Hopefully there is a fix for the noise issue. I too find it to be somewhat random. I've never seen it on sky that bad before... Could operating temperature be a factor? Humidity?

April 3rd, 2007, 06:28 PM	#24
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	no - i definately think its a hardware problem - everyone whom i have met so far (that hasnt been shooting in very well lit situations - actually looking at those images - even some very will lit situations) has had noise problems. We need to get some kind of official finding on the topic - so i think Tim should make his best effort as soon as possible (if not Tim someone else - although Tim's expertise is always great) to do a comparison and make an 'official' finding

April 5th, 2007, 02:26 AM	#25
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	any news Tim?

April 12th, 2007, 06:42 PM	#30
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	could you possibly upload a still from your images Sean?