HD200 in low light, not so much noise? at DVinfo.net

Eric Gulbransen · April 4th, 2007, 10:09 PM

Truth is I've got no business posting technical points on this forum because I know about as much about this stuff as the chick I just saw flipping chopped meat down at Burger World. Still, somehow there's an HD200 perched up on a nice tripod just beside me. Call me a dreamer, call me dillusional - just do me a favor and don't call me a carpenter...

I've noticed some growing concern on this forum (and on my mind) about noise on this rig so when I got home tonight (just as the sun was setting) I brushed off the sawdust and rushed out to the back yard to shoot some low light video (hopefully WITHOUT accidentally hitting the gain switch to the middle setting again).

No lights, no direct sunlight, 24p, 48 shutter, no gain.

Here is the Birds of Paradise flower screen grab:
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...aradiseWEB.jpg

Here is a ten second clip:
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...OFparadise.mov

If anyone's got a request, I'm willing to accommodate. Maybe I'll learn too..

Tyson Perkins · April 4th, 2007, 11:48 PM

What scene files are you using - i can get images like that with my camera - but its when you have either long/wide shots with darkness in them that it goes terrible - check the previous screens of that boy at the beach in other 200 thread- thats what referring to

Eric Gulbransen · April 5th, 2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Perkins

What scene files are you using - i can get images like that with my camera - but its when you have either long/wide shots with darkness in them that it goes terrible - check the previous screens of that boy at the beach in other 200 thread- thats what referring to

Tyson, the scene file began as Paulo's True Color V3 but I fumbled with it from there as I've experimented (without a monitor). I've copied all the settings onto the still it was taken with, here:
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...eSCENEFILE.jpg

Oddly, the still from the clip looks to be more red than what I see in FCP, and from what plays in the .mov

For what it's worth I kind of blew it on that still of the kid on the beach. Possibly on two counts (say it with me now... Car-pen-ter) - ONE: my big paws must have knocked the external gain switch from the "L" setting to the "M" setting because I found it set there the next morning (definitely not on purpose). Surely that didn't help one bit. TWO: In another recent post about backfocus I learned I could hook up the camera to our tv to use as a focus monitor. Until I learned that recent lesson I was having a helluva time telling what WASN'T in focus on the wide angle of my backfocus setting attempts. I don't know if this added to the horror of that shot or not, but it surely didn't help much..

Tyson Perkins · April 5th, 2007, 12:46 AM

Ahh yes i see - well ive had probelms like that with gain low - detail low - in low light setting (eeek)

Liam Hall · April 5th, 2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Gulbransen

Here is the Birds of Paradise flower screen grab:
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...aradiseWEB.jpg

That's a real shame. I was rather hoping the Birds of Paradise would be the chicks down at Burger King. Never mind.

Liam.

Chiayi Fun · April 7th, 2007, 08:51 AM

http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...&postid=419632

My LED light test :

http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...0&pagenumber=1

Farishad Latjuba · April 7th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiayi Fun

http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...&postid=419632

My LED light test :

http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...0&pagenumber=1

Can you send the link without we have to figure out the non-latin letter? :)
I would like to see what's in the link, for me to compare...Thanks

Chiayi Fun · April 7th, 2007, 12:07 PM

maybe my photos can help you ^^

Chiayi Fun · April 8th, 2007, 05:38 AM

my test photo

Eric Gulbransen · April 8th, 2007, 10:14 AM

As I understand it the alleged noise challenge only exists in low light situations, perhaps when lights are NOT being used - which is why I shared the examples I took, with no lights, which I don't find too noisy at all.

While we're on the noise subject, I will say that I've noticed since experimenting some more that the noise challenge doesn't seem directly related to simply "low light." In fact with careful attention to settings (which I did NOT take here) I bet "no noise" can be achieved. Here is a still I took for Liam some time after the manager of Burger World got off work last night. For the record, the only light ON the shot is the light IN the shot (40watt). I adjusted nothing from the Birds of Paradise settings except shutter speed and Macro (surely if I had this would look a lot better):
http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...racy-night.jpg

So far the only noise I struggle with still is what Tyson pointed out - when I'm shooting a bright daylight shot with a dark area in it. Although I HAVE greatly improved results from my first boy at the beach disaster shoot.

Tyson Perkins · April 8th, 2007, 06:52 PM

That is a very nice frame - i can't even get frames that clear with similar lighting.

Jeffrey Butler · April 8th, 2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Gulbransen

Tyson, the scene file began as Paulo's True Color V3 but I fumbled with it from there as I've experimented (without a monitor). I've copied all the settings onto the still it was taken with, here:

Eric - did you load Paolo's settings from the 100 onto your 200 then tweak them? I'd love to use his settings - and I could probably start with them and tweak my 250 as I think you just said you did - but I'm a bit nervous loading settings (as opposed to just setting them) and sorta nervous about using his settings on what seems to be a different unit. HOWEVER - looking at those stills your posted plus the video - I'm pretty convinced it's a great place to start!

Of course, just ordering the color balance chart and tweaking away is probably the best way to go...but standing on the shoulders of giants get's you higher, faster than building your own ladder...

Eric Gulbransen · April 8th, 2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Butler

standing on the shoulders of giants get's you higher, faster than building your own ladder...

I don't know Jeffrey, the carpenter in me can build a ladder pretty damn quick..

I went at the settings by simply copying them, then I tweeked them just a touch on my own (as I say, without a monitor - so I may have just screwed them up). Like you, I'm convinced there's a lot more lurking inside this machine than I can realize, yet, so I'll be pursuing a monitor to get it dialed in after next month's bill gets paid. Also, I can't wait to have a much better view of exactly what's getting shot. Kind of ridiculous to judge an olympic sized HD picture by using a wallet sized monitor.

And then some day, when I grow up, I'll get a better lens...

Jeffrey Butler · April 8th, 2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Gulbransen

I don't know Jeffrey, the carpenter in me can build a ladder pretty damn quick..

Yeah...I almost said that right...

April 4th, 2007, 10:09 PM	#1
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	HD200 in low light, not so much noise? Truth is I've got no business posting technical points on this forum because I know about as much about this stuff as the chick I just saw flipping chopped meat down at Burger World. Still, somehow there's an HD200 perched up on a nice tripod just beside me. Call me a dreamer, call me dillusional - just do me a favor and don't call me a carpenter... I've noticed some growing concern on this forum (and on my mind) about noise on this rig so when I got home tonight (just as the sun was setting) I brushed off the sawdust and rushed out to the back yard to shoot some low light video (hopefully WITHOUT accidentally hitting the gain switch to the middle setting again). No lights, no direct sunlight, 24p, 48 shutter, no gain. Here is the Birds of Paradise flower screen grab: http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...aradiseWEB.jpg Here is a ten second clip: http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...OFparadise.mov If anyone's got a request, I'm willing to accommodate. Maybe I'll learn too..

April 7th, 2007, 08:51 AM	#6
Chiayi Fun Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: taiwan Posts: 62	you need lights http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...&postid=419632 My LED light test : http://www.dvworld.com.tw/forum/dvfo...0&pagenumber=1

April 7th, 2007, 12:07 PM	#8
Chiayi Fun Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: taiwan Posts: 62	maybe my photos can help you ^^ Attached Thumbnails

April 8th, 2007, 05:38 AM	#9
Chiayi Fun Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: taiwan Posts: 62	my test photo Attached Thumbnails

April 4th, 2007, 11:48 PM	#2
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	What scene files are you using - i can get images like that with my camera - but its when you have either long/wide shots with darkness in them that it goes terrible - check the previous screens of that boy at the beach in other 200 thread- thats what referring to

April 5th, 2007, 12:46 AM	#4
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	Ahh yes i see - well ive had probelms like that with gain low - detail low - in low light setting (eeek)

April 8th, 2007, 10:14 AM	#10
Eric Gulbransen Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 520	As I understand it the alleged noise challenge only exists in low light situations, perhaps when lights are NOT being used - which is why I shared the examples I took, with no lights, which I don't find too noisy at all. While we're on the noise subject, I will say that I've noticed since experimenting some more that the noise challenge doesn't seem directly related to simply "low light." In fact with careful attention to settings (which I did NOT take here) I bet "no noise" can be achieved. Here is a still I took for Liam some time after the manager of Burger World got off work last night. For the record, the only light ON the shot is the light IN the shot (40watt). I adjusted nothing from the Birds of Paradise settings except shutter speed and Macro (surely if I had this would look a lot better): http://www.gotagteam.com/images/Sach...racy-night.jpg So far the only noise I struggle with still is what Tyson pointed out - when I'm shooting a bright daylight shot with a dark area in it. Although I HAVE greatly improved results from my first boy at the beach disaster shoot.

April 8th, 2007, 06:52 PM	#11
Tyson Perkins Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 221	That is a very nice frame - i can't even get frames that clear with similar lighting.