TrueColor HD200/250 available!

Javier Tabares · May 29th, 2007, 05:53 AM

Thanks paolo, now i can use true color 3 in my hd251e

Ron Fabienke · May 29th, 2007, 08:33 AM

Thanks very much here also Paulo. Quick question....On your other posting on the DCX site you seemed finally happy upgrading the settings from version .9 to 1.0 and pronouncing them available for trial to others. But master black there you have at -1 vs -3 here. Did you adjust further after those posts?

Also quick observation with them. When I first got my 200 a couple weeks ago I was concerned that manual white balance in direct sun kept taking at 4300K instead of around 5600K where I would have expected, with intermittant 5200 at times. Though footage seemed OK with a little undersaturation of color. But FAW in direct sunlight was way too blue. With your settings (from that prior posting, master black at -1) now FAW in sunlight seems correct. Still need far more shooting and testing but colors seem really nice.

Paolo Ciccone · May 29th, 2007, 08:43 AM

Ron.
Yes, I have changed the settings from what I thought it was the final version because I did yet another setup and adjusted the lights a last time and found that the lighting used before was causing an incorrect value for the blacks. That's why it takes so long to get this kind of configuration right. You need to verify the results several times with different kind of lights in order to be able to reproduce the conditions that brought to a given result. If you cannot reproduce the results then something was wrong in the original setup.
The white balance that you found is consistent with the fact that sunlight changes colors temperature during the day. Also, the presence of ND filters can alter your reading. What did you use for balancing the camera?

Ron Fabienke · May 29th, 2007, 08:47 AM

What did I use? LOL....white top of cooler I had outside with me with beers in it. :) And ND 2 with shutter up to 500 to knock down the light.

Paolo Ciccone · May 29th, 2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Fabienke

white top of cooler I had outside with me with beers in it. :)

All right, the cooler might be neutral white but then again, it might be not :)
The different bias in each surface can account for different reading. That's why I insist on using the DSC chart, it's been verified to be neutral by spectrometer analysis so the reading is the based on the precision of the camera.

Stephan Ahonen · May 29th, 2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

All right, the cooler might be neutral white but then again, it might be not :)
The different bias in each surface can account for different reading. That's why I insist on using the DSC chart, it's been verified to be neutral by spectrometer analysis so the reading is the based on the precision of the camera.

Idealistic, but impractical for real-world shooting. The world doesn't stop for you to set up a chip chart. The time you spend white balancing is time spent not shooting, and it can mean the difference between getting the shot and getting there just a little too late. The beer cooler gets you in the ballpark and lets you get on with shooting. The people at home won't see the difference.

Paolo Ciccone · May 29th, 2007, 03:39 PM

Stephen, not everything is a run-and-gun situation and Ron didn't specify that that was the case. He asked about different color temperature as expected, I analyzed the possible causes. I'm not talking about what you should do or shouldn't doon the set although there are many situations where the proper setup is doable. case in point, last thursday we shot an interview with M.David Mullen, with three HD100 and it took a couple of seconds to show the chart in front of each camera. The person in charge of the slate does that and at the end you have a reference point that allows you to do color matching in post in a few seconds.
Different situations, different solutions.

Scott R. Smith · June 4th, 2007, 06:06 PM

Funny that there's plenty of time to bring a cooler full of beer, but not enough to properly white balance. Well, actually, that pretty much sums up my life.

Jeffrey Butler · June 6th, 2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott R. Smith

Funny that there's plenty of time to bring a cooler full of beer, but not enough to properly white balance.

LOL! But if you ONLY had time to bring one - which would you bring, anyway!?

Bob Hart · June 7th, 2007, 08:23 AM

Paolo.

A long shot enquiry.

Are you ever likely to stick a P+S Technik Mini35-400 or the new Mini35 "Compact" on front of your HD100 and HD250 and do a true-colour scene file for the combination sometime in the future?

A silly question but are your scene files valid across NTSC and PAL or are they NTSC only?

Paolo Ciccone · June 7th, 2007, 09:06 AM

Hi Bob.
I actually worked with the Mini 35 last year with the HD100. We used a Cooke zoom and shot 3 commercials. There was no need to change the configuration for that setup.
The config files are created by testing the colors in the 709 color space so there is no dependecy with either NTSC or PAL. The frame rate and/or resolution don't really mater.

Hope this helps.

Bob Hart · June 7th, 2007, 06:15 PM

Paolo.

Thanks for your response. I'll pass this on to the JVC driver I have enquired on behalf of.

Dave Beaty · June 14th, 2007, 11:14 AM

Question,

One of our crews loaded Truecolor 250 . They were on a golf course shooting and immediately noticed it looking very contrasty.

We noticed you have the master black set lower than 0 and you are using standard gamma instead of cinema. Would it be advisable for us to adjust those black settings how we like, or will it effect color output as well?

We were pleased by the look of the gamma on Truecolor for the 100 and it actually looks great using those settings on the 250.

Thanks

Dave

Sean Adair · June 15th, 2007, 11:01 AM

Dave - I'll jump in and say that the first things you should consider adjusting to suit a particular situation is the black stretch/compress settings.
Midday in open sun is challenging for video of course anyway - and 20x20 silks or HMI lights don't always respond when I call....
Pumping up black stretch will help, and working with exposure/ composition of course...
Customizing for high contrast scenes would be possible, but I don't think cine gamma would be the best move. If you need a more dramtic effect, look at gamma settings and master black. The color procces settings stay pretty true to the eye with black adjustment I've found, but this is without scopes or critical monitoring.

Paolo Ciccone · June 17th, 2007, 06:38 PM

Dave, please look at information about TrueColor from my website as that is my favorite way of supporting it. Different light situation can create different requirements, try bringing the Master Black to 0 and using the Cinema Gamma

May 29th, 2007, 08:43 AM	#18
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Ron. Yes, I have changed the settings from what I thought it was the final version because I did yet another setup and adjusted the lights a last time and found that the lighting used before was causing an incorrect value for the blacks. That's why it takes so long to get this kind of configuration right. You need to verify the results several times with different kind of lights in order to be able to reproduce the conditions that brought to a given result. If you cannot reproduce the results then something was wrong in the original setup. The white balance that you found is consistent with the fact that sunlight changes colors temperature during the day. Also, the presence of ND filters can alter your reading. What did you use for balancing the camera? __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel Last edited by Paolo Ciccone; May 29th, 2007 at 10:20 AM.

May 29th, 2007, 03:39 PM	#22
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Stephen, not everything is a run-and-gun situation and Ron didn't specify that that was the case. He asked about different color temperature as expected, I analyzed the possible causes. I'm not talking about what you should do or shouldn't doon the set although there are many situations where the proper setup is doable. case in point, last thursday we shot an interview with M.David Mullen, with three HD100 and it took a couple of seconds to show the chart in front of each camera. The person in charge of the slate does that and at the end you have a reference point that allows you to do color matching in post in a few seconds. Different situations, different solutions. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

June 7th, 2007, 08:23 AM	#25
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Paolo. A long shot enquiry. Are you ever likely to stick a P+S Technik Mini35-400 or the new Mini35 "Compact" on front of your HD100 and HD250 and do a true-colour scene file for the combination sometime in the future? A silly question but are your scene files valid across NTSC and PAL or are they NTSC only? Last edited by Bob Hart; June 7th, 2007 at 08:24 AM. Reason: error

June 7th, 2007, 09:06 AM	#26
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Hi Bob. I actually worked with the Mini 35 last year with the HD100. We used a Cooke zoom and shot 3 commercials. There was no need to change the configuration for that setup. The config files are created by testing the colors in the 709 color space so there is no dependecy with either NTSC or PAL. The frame rate and/or resolution don't really mater. Hope this helps. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

June 15th, 2007, 11:01 AM	#29
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	Dave - I'll jump in and say that the first things you should consider adjusting to suit a particular situation is the black stretch/compress settings. Midday in open sun is challenging for video of course anyway - and 20x20 silks or HMI lights don't always respond when I call.... Pumping up black stretch will help, and working with exposure/ composition of course... Customizing for high contrast scenes would be possible, but I don't think cine gamma would be the best move. If you need a more dramtic effect, look at gamma settings and master black. The color procces settings stay pretty true to the eye with black adjustment I've found, but this is without scopes or critical monitoring. __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

May 29th, 2007, 05:53 AM	#16
Javier Tabares Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: SPAIN Posts: 31	Thanks paolo, now i can use true color 3 in my hd251e

May 29th, 2007, 08:33 AM	#17
Ron Fabienke Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 184	Thanks very much here also Paulo. Quick question....On your other posting on the DCX site you seemed finally happy upgrading the settings from version .9 to 1.0 and pronouncing them available for trial to others. But master black there you have at -1 vs -3 here. Did you adjust further after those posts? Also quick observation with them. When I first got my 200 a couple weeks ago I was concerned that manual white balance in direct sun kept taking at 4300K instead of around 5600K where I would have expected, with intermittant 5200 at times. Though footage seemed OK with a little undersaturation of color. But FAW in direct sunlight was way too blue. With your settings (from that prior posting, master black at -1) now FAW in sunlight seems correct. Still need far more shooting and testing but colors seem really nice.

May 29th, 2007, 08:47 AM	#19
Ron Fabienke Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 184	What did I use? LOL....white top of cooler I had outside with me with beers in it. :) And ND 2 with shutter up to 500 to knock down the light.

June 4th, 2007, 06:06 PM	#23
Scott R. Smith New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Clemson, SC Posts: 19	Funny that there's plenty of time to bring a cooler full of beer, but not enough to properly white balance. Well, actually, that pretty much sums up my life.

June 7th, 2007, 06:15 PM	#27
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Paolo. Thanks for your response. I'll pass this on to the JVC driver I have enquired on behalf of.

June 14th, 2007, 11:14 AM	#28
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	Question, One of our crews loaded Truecolor 250 . They were on a golf course shooting and immediately noticed it looking very contrasty. We noticed you have the master black set lower than 0 and you are using standard gamma instead of cinema. Would it be advisable for us to adjust those black settings how we like, or will it effect color output as well? We were pleased by the look of the gamma on Truecolor for the 100 and it actually looks great using those settings on the 250. Thanks Dave

June 17th, 2007, 06:38 PM	#30
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Dave, please look at information about TrueColor from my website as that is my favorite way of supporting it. Different light situation can create different requirements, try bringing the Master Black to 0 and using the Cinema Gamma __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel