Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hello,

I found this video posted a month ago featuring Craig Y. of JVC talking about the new 600 series cameras. Thought some others might want to see.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

This looks like something even I would be interested in. This thing looks like a camera I could be happy with.
HEY CRAIG, got any samples you want to send out!? ;-)

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hey Don

I see they have a 23X lens like the Panasonic AC-160 that is still giving users grief cos it has un-reliable autofocus. I wonder if the price point will be the same ...not for me as the thing that thrilled me about the 700 series was the awesome ergonomics with the shoulder mount. This camera will have to compete with the Canon XF series as well as the Panny AC series whereas in HM700's are out in a class of their own!!

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Chris,
Panasonic...JVC...some differences.
I have always loved the HD1XX/2XX and the HM7XX series of cameras. Everytime I get to use one I smile. If only they had been 1/2 inch cameras they would be the top selling camera in the galaxy. Well maybe not but I love the form factor and the image they produce. I would hope the 600/650 would do the same.
We'll see how it plays out. Pricewise the 600 looks likes it's about $4500 USD. Should give the Canons a run. Time will tell.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hey Don

Such a pity they are not the same form factor as the 700's ...there are so many handhelds out there now soon every man and his dog will own one!!!

I guess than manufacturers design for the general market who prefer the slightly smaller form of a handheld ..I guess at least you can toss this into a Kata bag a lot easier than an HM750!!

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Yeah, I agree but I've gotten so used to the smaller form factor not to mention I'd have to go out and get battries. The Dionic 90s are still about $400 each and a 4 position charger is about $1400 new. Not sure I could justify it BUT it is still a thought.
I'd probably be better off just staying in bed and not spending any money but you know how it goes.

Maybe a 600 and a couple of HMC150s as a B and C camera. Less money pretty much same image. HMMMM, could be. We'll see.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Any news about a release date worldwide?

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Well, the 6xx series camera that appeared at NAB this year was HAND CARRIED onto the plane and was in pieces mere days before so...

Had a chance to sit and chat with Craig Yanagi at the <insert ultra secret NAB HQ reference here> and there is NO DOUBT that he is excited about this release.

I was intrigued when I got to play with the prototype. There were issues (that I won't go into here as I'm POSITIVE they were software related and WILL be at least somewhat sorted out before street delivery) but all in all, a serious challenger in the market, IF 1/3" still works for your market.

Told Craig if they produced a 1/2" version, I'd buy three of them. Making sum total of all 1/2" versions sold worldwide... 3!

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

What intrigues me most about this camera is the dual recording capability - it can do XDCAM and AVCHD. That is VERY useful to me. I have a client who works in XDCAM and I'd love to be able to give them the files they prefer.
Plus, it has F11 sensitivity, which if I'm not mistaken, is better than the 1/2" EX1/3s.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Yes, it will be interesting to see how clean the image is considering F11 @ 2000 lux is quite an accomplishment for a 1/3" HD camera. I hope some reviews surface soon.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Does anyone know if the HM600's XDCAM video can be viewed on a computer with Sony's XDCAM viewing program?

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Looks good but I prefer the form factor of the 700's. Has anyone heard of a new 700/750?

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

As a HM700 user I hope that JVC will not be ditching that line in favour of the 600. As Don Bloom mentioned if the 700 series had been based on 2/3" or even 1/2" chip it would have had no competition in it's range. The only thing that disappointed me in the 700 was the very poor low light performance, in big part due to the smaller chip.

When I bought the 700 it was a toss up with the EX1 (just before the 3 came out) and the deciding factor for me was the ergonomics; the 'natural' feel on my shoulder and ability to hold steady something I found difficult with the EX style of body.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hi George

The trend seems to be with handhelds now and I guess it's a business decision..if you sell 5 million handhelds and only 200,000 shoulder mounts worldwide over a period worldwide you obviously concentrate on the big sellers.

I would have thought that 1/3" chips would be OK at weddings??? I survive (with an on-camera light) with 1/4" chips but those are 3MOS not CCD...the newer backlit 1/4.7" chips that Sony and Pansonic use on their new cameras actually outperform the 1/3" 3MOS and kill the CCD's...The new Panny AC-90 has a clean image with open iris and 24db gain...Technology is moving foward and getting smaller too!! My older cameras with 1/4" CCD's were a lot worse in low light than the 3MOS ones and I would suspect that the 600 uses the new technology too!!

It's becoming a struggle to find a decent SM cam!!! Maybe we need to adapt but I'm reluctant and I love the form factor of a cam on my shoulder!! If you look now even TV stations are starting to use smaller cameras....easier to get around when you need footage of a pop star surrounded by screaming fans!

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Don, I think I can arrange that. It would be a great service to our community if you can take it for a spin.

- Craig

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

If we used 1/2" imagers, a 28-667mm lens would be too large and long for a handheld (hint)...

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Our internal testing showed that the actual sensitivity was closer to F12. The European version of the GY-HM600 which runs at 50Hz is spec'd at F12.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

We are licensed by Sony for the XDCAM EX file recording, so there shouldn't be any compatibility issues.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

George, the HM700 Series camcorders are extremely successful models for JVC Professional for the exact reasons you've mentioned, and also for two other key elements, workflow and media. These models have and continue to do very well in broadcast, corporate and education. We've established ergonomics as one of the main design considerations in our camcorders, including the new GY-HM600 and GY-HM650, without compromising on features or performance.

JVC will continue to listen, observe and research what products and features should be brought to market to fill the void for professional photogs such as Phill, Chris and yourself.

We also want to keep Don smiling when he picks up a JVC...

- Craig

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

That is ....amazing.
If you need volunteers to do some beta testing, I'll volunteer!

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Thanks for taking time to read my comments Craig. Yes as well as the form factor, the cost of media has been a real positive compared with the EX's SxS system. At first I was somewhat dubious of the robustness and reliability of SD cards but I can honestly say that in over two years of operation and hundreds of hours of use it has never been an issue. Only once did I have a heart stopping moment when power was pulled whilst it was still recording. When I switched back on there was a 'problem with media' warning but the 'repair media' function sorted it out.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hmmm...this is intriguing. Hinting at a new form factor, or a bigger sensor camera?

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Perhaps I'm looking after your bar tab at NAB at the <location deleted> next year...

It WAS great chatting with you and I look forward to seeing if I can remain a JVC user, given my business considerations...

Hint huh? Hmmmmm....

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Okay, before we fly off the handle, the comment was made to infer that a larger sensor would require a longer, larger lens to obtain the same focal length, such as a 1/2" sensor (hint). So, to keep the same real estate, with a longer zoom, the imager would have to be reduced (hint).

I'm always thankful for being treated, but only fairly...

Not that we've stop thinking about future designs, though.

Cheers,
- Craig

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Philip Johnston has just posted his review of the camera here:

HD Warrior Blog Archiv Exclusive 1st Review of the new JVC GY-HM600

It's looking good. An impressive, well-designed piece of kit. I had better get saving now!

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Good video, I'm really impressed with the low light level comparison with the XF305.
This camera is looking better all the time.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hi Craig

Current Panasonic AC-160 owners seem to be expressing much interest here especially on the auto-focus front. The Panasonic gets into focus lockup situations when at 22X zoom and running in auto and it has been put down as an physics issue due to the massive zoom and big sensors.

Have you tried the 600 series in autofocus at full zoom either with a subject moving towards the camera ..example videos were a horse galloping inside a paddock..also being at full zoom and panning between two objects where the Panny camera has either very slow AF and now and again simply locks up on one object and refuses to focus.

It would be really interesting to see if the 600 series can handle situations like this??

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

I'd be all over this camera if only it had 1080p50/60. It ticks all my boxes except that and shoulder mount, which I have grudgingly learned to forgo.

The LCD is in a great position. The built-in lens shutter is something all cameras should have by now. Looks like a mechanical zoom lever. Good audio control, although I can't see the eq being all that useful. I wouldn't trust any eq changes I made in the field without good monitor speakers.

The Philip Johnston review is interesting. I notice the image is very soft at the telephoto end when he's filming the crane at 12:41. I hope that is not typical, but was rather either that he just wasn't focused properly, or it was in digital zoom (which is actually what it looked like to me).

Another odd thing is it looks from the pictures that you need to remove the lens hood to fit a filter.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

I've tried the latest firmware units, and the autofocus was extremely responsive at the zoom end. We've not had an opportunity to test the unit in situations such as you've mentioned.

The GY-HM600U is shipping shortly, so I'm sure we'll be hearing about the reviews soon.

- Craig

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Thanks Craig

Mike?? I wonder if this might be a better tool for our ELN614 and his horses?? 'extremely responsive' at full zoom sounds encouraging???

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

JVC are on the ball. I need is to find £3500 and I'll be happy. That is something JVC can't fix quickly!

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

That is an excellent response on the part of JVC. If only they'll announce a firmware upgrade to AVCHD2 I'll have my wallet out in a flash.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Indeed. And what looks like good low light performance might even have you considering a couple next year when you've got over the AC130 pain. :)

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hi Mike

Sadly no!! I would suspect with 1/3" chips the 600 will have the same sort of exposure system as the Panasonic AC-160 with just autoiris control and external ND filters. I do weddings solo with two cameras and I really need my main cam to be able to look after itself exposure wise should a cloud go over the sun..the AC-160 simply runs out of iris and requires a manual ND change! If I can get to the camera and change the ND I then get a nasty flash on unrepeatable wedding footage. I'm doing run 'n gun stuff too so I often need a camera that with change both iris and shutter for me!!

I also do a lot of realty properties filming inside rooms so I have situations where I am in fairly low light filming a wall and then come to a window with bright light... My HMC82's have auto iris, shutter and ND so then can go from an open iris and 1/50th shutter and then almost instantly auto right up to F10 and 1/2000 shutter and full ND without touching the camera controls..yet it still has full manual too .....Don't think the 600 can do that!! but I could be very wrong

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

The GY-HM600 and GYHM650 have both manual and auto iris control as well as three ND filter selections.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Thanks Craig

In autoiris is just the iris controlled or does the camera also change shutter too...with realty work I do need to be able to film the interior of a room and when the camera sees an open window and closes the iris it also needs to up the shutter as the light difference is huge. I didn't think that any 1/3" chip cameras did this?? On my current cameras I will often go from 1/50th and F1.9 and when it encounters a window opening with bright light coming thru the camera will go right up to 1/2000th shutter and F10 iris to cope with the huge light increase.

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Making auto shutter an option, although not suitable for every use, would certainly be useful for the sorts of situations you mention, especially on slow moving subjects where the side effects of a high shutter wouldn't be so noticed by most viewers.

I can't imagine your HMC82s are really going to F10. I would expect the picture to be a fuzzy mess at such a small aperture. I guess it's being faked by the auto ND.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hi Mike

Quite correct..1/3rd chips start losing it above F8 so I would suspect 1/4" would lose it probably around F3.5!! The F10 is definately a "pseudo" reading ..Barry Green I think once said that the ND's actually start kicking in as low as F2.8!! I guess to make the display simpler it shows the range from open to F10 but the iris itself never really closes more than F3.5 so it's a combination of say F3.5 and 1/64 ND ...that would take up complicated display room so they simply show it at an effective F10.

My AC-130's used to even show definate image resolution drop at F8 so I never went more than F5.6 ..that is supposed to be the sweet spot for 1/3rd chip sensors aparently?? so on 1/4" the sweet spot would more than likely be no more than F2.8 .... Yeah at a genuine F10 it would look like VHS!!!

Chris

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

The JVC does have a full auto switch on the side, I expect it to do somewhat the same as on my xh-a1, with that camera I can also go from pitch black to very bright in one go in full auto mode, only I don't see what it's doing then because there is no cameradata visible in that mode. I understand why you need a camera to do this but there is a reason why this is not even possible on professional camera's. If you are letting the camera control everything you are also accepting the fact that your colors might be off, that your image might turn soft, that your exposure might not be correct or that your footage have a smeary or strobing effect. There is a reason why ND filters are not a luxury but a necessity on a professional camera, they allow you to control the image without all the side effects.
Normally when I'm inside a room and get a window in my view I expect the iris to remain the same, unless I need to see what's outside, that's why I don't like the iris or shutter to change all by itself, unless I want them to.

I guess in your (an my) line of work you need to choose a camera that fit's your needs and that often won't be a professional camera, I also use camera's with typical consumer auto functions for paid jobs, not because I like the fact that they are missing most of the features professional camera have, but because they fit my workflow and output the result I expect, they are not perfect but they do the job. A professional camera would probably cause me more problems in certain situations (like leaving it filming unmanned) but I accept the reason that they are not build to do that since they expect an experienced operator on the other side, my consumercamera's are build to do that but with side effects, but those side effects are still within the margin of error I can live with (as I have no other choice) and that is acceptable for my type of clients.

Re: Nice Video Overview of the Upcoming 600 Series Cameras
 

Hi Noa

With these shoots I am actually recording the condition of the property so I need clear shots of the walls then straight into the window frame and glass so they can see the glass is not cracked or damaged...On a fixed or limited iris the camera pointing straight out thru the window glass would just go white as it grossly over-exposed. Most camcorders handle that nicely..I actually used my Panasonic GH1 to see how that worked and it too, it IA mode correctly exposes the walls and then rcorrects quite fast when you get to the window glass...It's not exactly creative shooting but it pays the bills during the week for me

Chris