Mini DV Tapes vs Mini HD Tapes

[Martin van der Poel]

The problem is, that in my case, staying with the same brand worked for over a year and than I started to have consistent trouble with drop outs.
Since I have reverted to my previous practice of using several brands of tape the drop outs have all but disappeared.

Currently I am using Sony, Panasonic, JVC and TDK.

How many people stick with one brand of tape for their home VCR?
Now a lot of people will point out how much smaller the MiniDV tape is, and that is right but small is only relative and the old VHS tape is much smaller than the Umatic tape or some other formats that came before that.

[Greg Laves]

Originally Posted by Battle Vaughan

The issue with sticking with one brand is that some tapes use a wet lube (Sony, Panasonic, as I am told)

FWIW Panasonic uses dry lubricant. As far as I know, only Sony has used wet lube on its tapes in recent times. I have not been able to find out if Sony uses wet or dry lub on their high dollar HDV tapes.

What is the best tape? I have a friend who goes through a lot of MiniDV tapes and he will use anything but Sony and he switches brands often. I have another friend will only use Sony Premium tapes and he is absolutely certain that they work the best. I think his opinion is mainly based on price. But, he has been shooting on HDV longer than I have and he says he has never had a single drop out. On my VX1000 and later on my VX2100, I mixed tape brands all the time and never had any issues when using new tapes. But I did experience problems with used tapes. My impression was that most of the problems I had with used tapes were mainly Sony. But I didn't really document it. Since I have started shooting on HDV, I have used Panasonic 99% of the time. But I did use maybe 1 or 2 tapes that were some other brand. So far no drop outs at all.

Who knows......

[Martin van der Poel]

You confirm that changing brands of tape does not have to produce problems.
Anyone that has had my experience, that changing brands had a positve effect?

[Bill Pryor]

Yes. I switched from Panasonic AMQ to Sony's PHDVM and quit having dropouts. That's the only reason to switch, in my opinion. If one brand of tape starts giving dropouts, clean the heads and move on.

[Martin van der Poel]

I suppose my last sentence should have read:

Is there anyone that has had the experience, that constantly changing the MiniDV tape brand used in a video camera drastically reduces drop outs?

[Stelios Christofides]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Tape rules:........
Never re-use your tapes. They should go through your camera exactly twice: once when you shoot and once when you capture.

Adam

I agree with you that you should never use tapes over and over again but you state here that you should only use it "exactly" twice. Why exactly , I for example use my tapes 3 to 4 times only and never had any problems.

Stelios

[Adam Gold]

Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides

.. you state here that you should only use it "exactly" twice. Why exactly...

Only because that's the minimum possible when shooting and capturing. More passes will likely work fine and are sometimes necessary, but every pass increases your odds of a problem.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

but every pass increases your odds of a problem.

Don't forget that using a new $2 or a $10 tape also increases your odds of a problem. You're expecting a highly complex, 28 component part mechanical assembly to be perfect, straight out of the box.

At these prices there's no human inspection whatsoever. If you've used a tape - in other words inspected it thoroughly yourself - then that's a far 'better' tape than a new, untested one.

You'd not dream of using an untested microphone for a shoot. Don't dream of using untested tape, then.

tom.

[Stelios Christofides]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

...You'd not dream of using an untested microphone for a shoot. Don't dream of using untested tape, then.tom.

well that means its better to use the "tested" tape again than using a new one as Adam suggested! the question is then, are the odds more to find a problem with a new tape or with a used one that has been passed 4 or 6 times?

Stelios

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides

well that means its better to use the "tested" tape again than using a new one as Adam suggested!Stelios

That's correct. Of course you can't go on re-cycling for ever, you will have to break open new tapes now and again. My point is that such a tape should be used on a 'repeatable' shoot, where should a fault occur the shot can be captured again. The untested microphone can also be used on this shoot as take two can rectify any problems that arise.

Weddings and real-time events meant you only have one shot. Use untested kit if you're the type that doesn't buckle up on the drive there.

tom.

[Adam Gold]

This makes no sense at all to me. The odds of getting a "bad" tape are far lower than the odds of actually creating one by running it through your cam unnecessarily. Precisely how do you "test" a tape? What do you do, roll an hour of bars and then sit and watch the whole thing to make sure there isn't a dropout? And what guarantee is this, as the odds of a dropout increase with use -- the first pass could be fine but you could be creating a problem for the second pass. And this doesn't even take into account the extra wear on your heads and tape transport if you effectively shoot twice as much tape as necessary.

This is up there with the myth of pre-blacking a tape, which is not only unnecessary but potentially harmful (timecode-wise).

Normally I defer to all Tom advice, as he's right about everything, but this time I just don't get it.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Normally I defer to all Tom advice, as he's right about everything, but this time I just don't get it.

I'm just quoting this to get it up in print again :-))

Each to his own, good people. My decks are kept glinty-clean, I don't film in adverse conditions, I change tapes with gentle care and often I run the camera for an hour non-stop. The tapes are 'checked' in that the footage (B cam often) is transferred to the pc with ne'er a dropout. That is indeed the 'dangerous' second pass.

I agree - don't black.

Let's take mechanically automated tape production as 99.9% perfect - a wildly optimistic figure when we pay so little for so complex an assembly. That means for every 1000 sold one is duff in some way or other. Millions and millions must be sold, right?

So out there, on the shelves, waiting to be bought, are the duff ones. Every time I crack one open I pray it's ok. It's a third the cost of a sandwich, and I've had a few iffy sandwiches in my time.

tom.

[Adam Gold]

I normally run a minute of bars at the head of each tape before I shoot anyway, so maybe this suffices mechanically. I suppose a quick FF/REW could also verify the mechanics of the tape as well.

But dropout-wise, I just don't see a way to do this.

And don't get me started on the sandwich thing....

[Fred Todisco]

I just purchased the Z5 and used it this pass weekend.
I used it with Sony HD Tapes. I was told that I can use
regular mini dv tapes and shoot in HD.
Has anybody shot regular mini dv tapes in HD
and if so how was the content?

[Adam Gold]

Originally Posted by Fred Todisco

I just purchased the Z5 and used it this pass weekend.
I used it with Sony HD Tapes. I was told that I can use
regular mini dv tapes and shoot in HD.
Has anybody shot regular mini dv tapes in HD
and if so how was the content?

You're kidding, right? That question has been answered a half-dozen times in this thread alone...

If you don't want to read the whole thread, start with post #44...