BEWARE

Bob Anderson · January 7th, 2004, 05:51 PM

Beware of the current crop of FUJI brand of VHS tape. I recently purchased 500 Fuji VHS tapes. Most all of them are so cheaply constructed that the clear windows fall inside the tape with the slightest presure. Normal handeling will cave the window in and every finished tape I mailed out came back with the window loose inside the tape.

Frank Granovski · January 7th, 2004, 06:23 PM

Which Fuji VHS tape are you talking about?

I've used at least 3000 Fuji Pro and Fuji Master VHS tapes for duplication without even 1 problem.

Bob Anderson · January 7th, 2004, 06:36 PM

I have good luck with the last 10,000 "HG-120" Fiji tapes I have run but the curent tapes are just junk. There is one batch number that is the worst - 60035TGA, but there are a couple of lot numbers in the group that are failing.

Frank Granovski · January 7th, 2004, 07:54 PM

The HG line, isn't that their lowest? I tried their cheap line once, 2 out 3 tried tapes broke. The Fuji Pro and Master are simply the best on the market, though, in my opinion.

Bob Anderson · January 7th, 2004, 08:34 PM

>>The HG line, isn't that their lowest? I tried their cheap line once, 2 out 3 tried tapes broke. The Fuji Pro and Master are simply the best on the market, though, in my opinion.<<

Gee, I see - unless you buy Fuji's 'Pro' grade or higher then their product will not even do what it is advertised for and sold for. OK, I would of thought that Fuji had more integrity than that.

Frank Granovski · January 7th, 2004, 09:26 PM

Their low line is pretty bad. But the "pro" line is very good and not much more expensive. I usually by a 5-pack for under 10 bucks Canadian. A 5-pack of their low line is about 8 bucks.

Jeff Donald · January 7th, 2004, 10:03 PM

Bob, you are correct, the Fuji's should not be having problems like you describe. I'm sure if you contact Fuji or the distributor/retailer where you purchased them, they will stand behind the product. I used to own a fairly large duplication company in the Midwest. Over the course of running millions of tapes, I observed problems with all major brands of VHS tape stock, including TDK, Fuji, Maxell, Panasonic, Ampex, 3M, etc. You just need to work with your current supplier to fix the problem. If you never used Fuji again, I wouldn't blame you. But realize that you may have a different (or the same) problem with any other entry level quality of tape. Frank is only trying to tell you that in the long run you'll have less problems with better grades of tape.

I had the best luck with the duplication grade of tape that Maxell made. It wasn't the lowest grade and wasn't the highest grade. But it was a consistent quality and over the years (and millions of tapes) I had relatively few problems. Were they perfect? No, no tape is ever perfect. But they gave my customers few dropouts, were durable and well constructed. Just as I'm sure the higher grade Fuji's are.

Bob Anderson · January 8th, 2004, 09:31 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Bob, you are correct, the Fuji's should not be having problems like you describe. I'm sure if you contact Fuji or the distributor/retailer where you purchased them, they will stand behind the product. -->>>

Thank you, it seems that Frank is insinuating that I am at somehow at fault because I bought Fuji's largest volume, “HQ” tape grade instead of one of the higher grades. I have had very good luck with about 10,000 of Fuji's same grade in the past. I have seen a few unbiased, independent tests the can find NO difference in performance between different grades of a manufactures tape lines. I believe that there are not as many different tape formulations as there are tape grades, do you?! Having opened many tape shells for repairs the real difference in grades is in the guides (metal or plastic) inside the shell and the casting of the shell itself. In spite of that I have never seen a VHS tape that had just physically worn out (not including one that had been (mis-)handled and played by a 5 year old a few thousand times). In any event there NEVER should be any grade at any price in any brand that can not be handled normally without failing- period!
I did contact Fuji customer service and, at their request, sent them a case of examples and, as I was warned by other dealers, Fuji is unresponsive so far. It seems Fuji company policy is just to ignore complainers till they give up. Hence the simple warning to others that has seemed to stir up Frank, perhaps he has some vested interest in Fuji??
Over my video career if I had to use the higher priced tape to get minimally acceptable product performance I would have given the tape companies, very roughly, $10 to $30 grand more and not sold one single more tape than I have. That math does not make sense to me…..
If the product is not suitable for its intended purpose it should not be sold as such. Do I spend the money on pursuing Fuji in court or just accept the loss? As Fuji well knows, I am probably better off money wise to just eat it.
I will post the final disposition of this if anyone is interested. Till then I have gone to Maxell tape.

Frank Granovski · January 8th, 2004, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Hence the simple warning to others that has seemed to stir up Frank, perhaps he has some vested interest in Fuji??...Till then I have gone to Maxell tape.

I was thinking the same thing about your possible connection with Maxell. :-))

Jeff Donald · January 8th, 2004, 09:39 PM

Like all things in life you get what you pay for. My experience with the cheapest brand tapes (lowest quality) was similar to yours. The quality of the shell and internal components where of poor quality and contributed to tape problems (dropouts etc.) I always felt my clients were worth more than the least expensive tapes and chose to use better grade duplication tapes. I thought my clients deserved a better grade product. Clients wanted my services because I offered great service, great products and a fair price. I occasionally would lose a client to someone duplicating tapes for a lower price. But invariably they would come back. Why? Because the client was embarrassed when the tapes had dropouts, or the window fell into the tape, the tapes were having quality issues after a few playbacks etc.

Your clients and needs may differ, Bob. Frank was merely pointing out that higher quality grades of tape have fewer problems and I would have to agree.

January 7th, 2004, 05:51 PM	#1
Bob Anderson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: MA Posts: 15	BEWARE - FUJI VHS Tape Beware of the current crop of FUJI brand of VHS tape. I recently purchased 500 Fuji VHS tapes. Most all of them are so cheaply constructed that the clear windows fall inside the tape with the slightest presure. Normal handeling will cave the window in and every finished tape I mailed out came back with the window loose inside the tape.

January 7th, 2004, 10:03 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Bob, you are correct, the Fuji's should not be having problems like you describe. I'm sure if you contact Fuji or the distributor/retailer where you purchased them, they will stand behind the product. I used to own a fairly large duplication company in the Midwest. Over the course of running millions of tapes, I observed problems with all major brands of VHS tape stock, including TDK, Fuji, Maxell, Panasonic, Ampex, 3M, etc. You just need to work with your current supplier to fix the problem. If you never used Fuji again, I wouldn't blame you. But realize that you may have a different (or the same) problem with any other entry level quality of tape. Frank is only trying to tell you that in the long run you'll have less problems with better grades of tape. I had the best luck with the duplication grade of tape that Maxell made. It wasn't the lowest grade and wasn't the highest grade. But it was a consistent quality and over the years (and millions of tapes) I had relatively few problems. Were they perfect? No, no tape is ever perfect. But they gave my customers few dropouts, were durable and well constructed. Just as I'm sure the higher grade Fuji's are. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 8th, 2004, 09:39 PM	#10
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Like all things in life you get what you pay for. My experience with the cheapest brand tapes (lowest quality) was similar to yours. The quality of the shell and internal components where of poor quality and contributed to tape problems (dropouts etc.) I always felt my clients were worth more than the least expensive tapes and chose to use better grade duplication tapes. I thought my clients deserved a better grade product. Clients wanted my services because I offered great service, great products and a fair price. I occasionally would lose a client to someone duplicating tapes for a lower price. But invariably they would come back. Why? Because the client was embarrassed when the tapes had dropouts, or the window fell into the tape, the tapes were having quality issues after a few playbacks etc. Your clients and needs may differ, Bob. Frank was merely pointing out that higher quality grades of tape have fewer problems and I would have to agree. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

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January 7th, 2004, 06:23 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Which Fuji VHS tape are you talking about? I've used at least 3000 Fuji Pro and Fuji Master VHS tapes for duplication without even 1 problem.

January 7th, 2004, 06:36 PM	#3
Bob Anderson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: MA Posts: 15	I have good luck with the last 10,000 "HG-120" Fiji tapes I have run but the curent tapes are just junk. There is one batch number that is the worst - 60035TGA, but there are a couple of lot numbers in the group that are failing.

January 7th, 2004, 07:54 PM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The HG line, isn't that their lowest? I tried their cheap line once, 2 out 3 tried tapes broke. The Fuji Pro and Master are simply the best on the market, though, in my opinion.

January 7th, 2004, 08:34 PM	#5
Bob Anderson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: MA Posts: 15	>>The HG line, isn't that their lowest? I tried their cheap line once, 2 out 3 tried tapes broke. The Fuji Pro and Master are simply the best on the market, though, in my opinion.<< Gee, I see - unless you buy Fuji's 'Pro' grade or higher then their product will not even do what it is advertised for and sold for. OK, I would of thought that Fuji had more integrity than that.

January 7th, 2004, 09:26 PM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Their low line is pretty bad. But the "pro" line is very good and not much more expensive. I usually by a 5-pack for under 10 bucks Canadian. A 5-pack of their low line is about 8 bucks.

January 8th, 2004, 09:31 AM	#8
Bob Anderson New Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: MA Posts: 15	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Bob, you are correct, the Fuji's should not be having problems like you describe. I'm sure if you contact Fuji or the distributor/retailer where you purchased them, they will stand behind the product. -->>> Thank you, it seems that Frank is insinuating that I am at somehow at fault because I bought Fuji's largest volume, “HQ” tape grade instead of one of the higher grades. I have had very good luck with about 10,000 of Fuji's same grade in the past. I have seen a few unbiased, independent tests the can find NO difference in performance between different grades of a manufactures tape lines. I believe that there are not as many different tape formulations as there are tape grades, do you?! Having opened many tape shells for repairs the real difference in grades is in the guides (metal or plastic) inside the shell and the casting of the shell itself. In spite of that I have never seen a VHS tape that had just physically worn out (not including one that had been (mis-)handled and played by a 5 year old a few thousand times). In any event there NEVER should be any grade at any price in any brand that can not be handled normally without failing- period! I did contact Fuji customer service and, at their request, sent them a case of examples and, as I was warned by other dealers, Fuji is unresponsive so far. It seems Fuji company policy is just to ignore complainers till they give up. Hence the simple warning to others that has seemed to stir up Frank, perhaps he has some vested interest in Fuji?? Over my video career if I had to use the higher priced tape to get minimally acceptable product performance I would have given the tape companies, very roughly, $10 to $30 grand more and not sold one single more tape than I have. That math does not make sense to me….. If the product is not suitable for its intended purpose it should not be sold as such. Do I spend the money on pursuing Fuji in court or just accept the loss? As Fuji well knows, I am probably better off money wise to just eat it. I will post the final disposition of this if anyone is interested. Till then I have gone to Maxell tape.