Airport X-Ray Machines and Videotape

Bryan Beasleigh · March 30th, 2003, 02:45 PM

"Now I'm hearing both sides about video tape. In the absence of a clear consensus, I would be inclined to ask for physical inspection -- not getting the tapes near the equipment avoids the problem. But is that possible? "

Both sides? One person had what he thought were problems related to X Ray, and that was one trip. A number of us have stated that we travel constantly with no ill effect.

I would certainly carry the tapes with you. If inspection actually does occur on checked baggage, there is a lot more chance of damage using magnetic imaging.

When carrying the tape with you , you may be denied hand inspection and would certainly be required to unwrap the packaging if it were hand inspected. The Xray will not affect the tape anyway. I had one tape in my small TRV20 that went through 4 security checks in one trip alone. That tape most likely got Xrayed a dozen times.

You used to be able to courier film ahead but with the new security God knows what they subject Fed Ex or other air courier shipments to.

Michael Dalton · March 30th, 2003, 11:24 PM

I can't speak for all the machines, but I know that I had tapes damaged, so if you feel confident that they don't effect tapes, then be my guest.

I was just back in Mexico last week and did a test with a tape that I checked first, and when it went through the scanner at Pearson, it had the same dropouts after. They are not bad, and happen ever few minutes, but it's enough for concern, and on my original trip wrecked a bunch of great shots.

I have read up on the X-rays scanners, and know that they are electromagnetic light that should not harm the tapes. But maybe the machine itself generates some magnetic fields. Who knows.

As far as being nice goes, that always helps, I just told them that the tapes can not go through the machine, and they were great. They checked the boxes, and let me go through. They checked my camera for explosives which made me happy. I flew 5 days after sept 11th to Africa, and nobody even looked at my camera or equipment. Got to love Canadian passports.

Well I think that people have enough to make a decision on, but if others would like to take and old (with footage) and run a test for all of us.

michael

Bryan Beasleigh · March 31st, 2003, 12:34 AM

I really think you should be looking elsewhere for the problem. I fly out of TO and as I have said never had an issue, does that rate as a test. I had around two hours of tape from Phoenix around 3 weeks ago with no dropouts.

What about the return trip from Mexico. The problem may not be with Pearson's machines.

Michael Dalton · March 31st, 2003, 01:02 AM

I saw it on a monitor in Mexico before coming back. I know what you are saying though, I sent some tapes through the scanner in Nirobi last year and had dropout problems, I thought it was the old camera I was using, but don't know.

Could be the tape brand.

Africa- Fugi (some tapes had dropout)
Mexico 1- Panasonic (problem was with 10 tapes)
Mexico 2- Sony (Panasonic was damaged as my test, sony's are fine)

Bryan Beasleigh · March 31st, 2003, 02:49 AM

Are you mixing tapes? Fuji, Pana and Sony all in the same camera?

Chris Hurd · March 31st, 2003, 10:58 AM

Yeah, if you're mixing tape brands (especially Sony vs. Panasonic) without running a head cleaner between brands, then that's probably the cause of your drop outs. This is a far more likely reason than an airport X-ray machine. We've had several discussions going about the pitfalls of tape brand mixing. Hope this helps,

Glenn Woiler · April 2nd, 2003, 10:42 PM

You have to handle "film" differently than video tape.

You can carry film thru the golden arches, but not thru the x-ray if it is over 800 asa.

Video tape can go thru the x-ray because it is not magnetic. I have flown twice this year overseas and had no trouble with my camcorder bag with all tapes going thru the x-ray machine for your personal stuff.

They tell you everything has to go thru this x-ray machine, but if you look up the TSA rules, and your rights, you will see that, if you want to hand carry something like film, they have to inspect it manually. I just hope they won't want to open it up! They should be able to tell a real 35mm role of film by turning the winder thingy. But, no matter the countries I have been in, Vietnam [during 9-11] Lithuania, dominican republic, Colombia, Venezella, Philippines, India.... I have NOT ever had trouble with DV video tape going thru X-RAY machines.

glenn

Jeff Donald · April 3rd, 2003, 07:02 AM

Glenn recommendation of 800 ISO film or slower (400, 200, 100 etc.) speed film going through X-rays and being safe can be misleading. X-ray dosages are cumulative. That is why the dental technician wears a lead apron. She would be exposed to X-ray dosages day in, day out and would build to a dangerous level.

Film works the same way, each time it passes through an X-ray machine, a base level of fog (exposure) is added enough repeated dosages and even slow film can be ruined.

Glenn Woiler · April 3rd, 2003, 07:54 AM

well....... I have not carried film in a few years. And these days, I imagine there would be more passes through the x-ray machine than in years past.

glenn

Jeff Donald · April 3rd, 2003, 08:06 AM

Also on a multi-leg trip overseas it might ultimately go through an X-ray machine 8 to 10 times. Each pass will add a little fog to the base exposure.

Hand inspection is safest and lead bags are the next best thing.

Glenn Woiler · April 3rd, 2003, 08:14 AM

well, these days I would not want to try a lead bag. If they can not see thru it, and it is dense, they want to search it. I have had many screeners tell me everything had to go thru x-ray, and then I read the rules in a magazine while in the air. I carry those rules with me so if need be, I can force them to inspect something rather than x-ray. I wonder what they think could be fit in to a 35mm cartridge?

glenn

Jeff Donald · April 3rd, 2003, 08:34 AM

Our rules do not apply to overseas travel. Foreign inspectors my not hand inspect your film. Lead bags offer some protection against X-rays. It may be over kill for domestic travel, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Peter Richardson · February 25th, 2004, 11:27 AM

Hey guys--This is probably a stupid question, but better safe than sorry. I will be taking all my tapes (87 hours worth) on a move from New York to Oregon and will be going through airport security with them. Do I need to worry about them being xrayed? As far as I know, only magnetic fields can destroy tape, not x-rays, but I just want to make sure, for obvious reasons. I have backed up about 70 hrs of ftg and will be Fedexing that to myself, but there is still 17 hrs that I only have one copy of. Also, I'll be taking two external hard drives through security. OK, thanks for the advice!

Peter

Jeff Patnaude · February 25th, 2004, 11:58 AM

I think there's been a good amount of discussion here regarding this.
Since I've just returned from 3 location shoots in the past month, we haven't had any problems with running tapes through machines. I would not check them with baggage however- always hand carry.

Good luck,
Jeff Patnaude

Peter Richardson · February 25th, 2004, 12:57 PM

thanks Jeff!

March 30th, 2003, 11:24 PM	#32
Michael Dalton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Torotnto, Canada Posts: 139	be my guest I can't speak for all the machines, but I know that I had tapes damaged, so if you feel confident that they don't effect tapes, then be my guest. I was just back in Mexico last week and did a test with a tape that I checked first, and when it went through the scanner at Pearson, it had the same dropouts after. They are not bad, and happen ever few minutes, but it's enough for concern, and on my original trip wrecked a bunch of great shots. I have read up on the X-rays scanners, and know that they are electromagnetic light that should not harm the tapes. But maybe the machine itself generates some magnetic fields. Who knows. As far as being nice goes, that always helps, I just told them that the tapes can not go through the machine, and they were great. They checked the boxes, and let me go through. They checked my camera for explosives which made me happy. I flew 5 days after sept 11th to Africa, and nobody even looked at my camera or equipment. Got to love Canadian passports. Well I think that people have enough to make a decision on, but if others would like to take and old (with footage) and run a test for all of us. michael __________________ www.digitalcrossing.ca www.4kafrica.com documentary filmmaker/screen writer

March 31st, 2003, 01:02 AM	#34
Michael Dalton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Torotnto, Canada Posts: 139	I saw it on a monitor in Mexico before coming back. I know what you are saying though, I sent some tapes through the scanner in Nirobi last year and had dropout problems, I thought it was the old camera I was using, but don't know. Could be the tape brand. Africa- Fugi (some tapes had dropout) Mexico 1- Panasonic (problem was with 10 tapes) Mexico 2- Sony (Panasonic was damaged as my test, sony's are fine) __________________ www.digitalcrossing.ca www.4kafrica.com documentary filmmaker/screen writer

March 31st, 2003, 10:58 AM	#36
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Yeah, if you're mixing tape brands (especially Sony vs. Panasonic) without running a head cleaner between brands, then that's probably the cause of your drop outs. This is a far more likely reason than an airport X-ray machine. We've had several discussions going about the pitfalls of tape brand mixing. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 2nd, 2003, 10:42 PM	#37
Glenn Woiler New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Newport, Washington Posts: 13	screening tapes You have to handle "film" differently than video tape. You can carry film thru the golden arches, but not thru the x-ray if it is over 800 asa. Video tape can go thru the x-ray because it is not magnetic. I have flown twice this year overseas and had no trouble with my camcorder bag with all tapes going thru the x-ray machine for your personal stuff. They tell you everything has to go thru this x-ray machine, but if you look up the TSA rules, and your rights, you will see that, if you want to hand carry something like film, they have to inspect it manually. I just hope they won't want to open it up! They should be able to tell a real 35mm role of film by turning the winder thingy. But, no matter the countries I have been in, Vietnam [during 9-11] Lithuania, dominican republic, Colombia, Venezella, Philippines, India.... I have NOT ever had trouble with DV video tape going thru X-RAY machines. glenn

April 3rd, 2003, 07:02 AM	#38
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Glenn recommendation of 800 ISO film or slower (400, 200, 100 etc.) speed film going through X-rays and being safe can be misleading. X-ray dosages are cumulative. That is why the dental technician wears a lead apron. She would be exposed to X-ray dosages day in, day out and would build to a dangerous level. Film works the same way, each time it passes through an X-ray machine, a base level of fog (exposure) is added enough repeated dosages and even slow film can be ruined. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 30th, 2003, 02:45 PM	#31
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	"Now I'm hearing both sides about video tape. In the absence of a clear consensus, I would be inclined to ask for physical inspection -- not getting the tapes near the equipment avoids the problem. But is that possible? " Both sides? One person had what he thought were problems related to X Ray, and that was one trip. A number of us have stated that we travel constantly with no ill effect. I would certainly carry the tapes with you. If inspection actually does occur on checked baggage, there is a lot more chance of damage using magnetic imaging. When carrying the tape with you , you may be denied hand inspection and would certainly be required to unwrap the packaging if it were hand inspected. The Xray will not affect the tape anyway. I had one tape in my small TRV20 that went through 4 security checks in one trip alone. That tape most likely got Xrayed a dozen times. You used to be able to courier film ahead but with the new security God knows what they subject Fed Ex or other air courier shipments to.

March 31st, 2003, 12:34 AM	#33
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I really think you should be looking elsewhere for the problem. I fly out of TO and as I have said never had an issue, does that rate as a test. I had around two hours of tape from Phoenix around 3 weeks ago with no dropouts. What about the return trip from Mexico. The problem may not be with Pearson's machines.

March 31st, 2003, 02:49 AM	#35
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	Are you mixing tapes? Fuji, Pana and Sony all in the same camera?

April 3rd, 2003, 07:54 AM	#39
Glenn Woiler New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Newport, Washington Posts: 13	I believe you are right well....... I have not carried film in a few years. And these days, I imagine there would be more passes through the x-ray machine than in years past. glenn

April 3rd, 2003, 08:06 AM	#40
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Also on a multi-leg trip overseas it might ultimately go through an X-ray machine 8 to 10 times. Each pass will add a little fog to the base exposure. Hand inspection is safest and lead bags are the next best thing. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 3rd, 2003, 08:14 AM	#41
Glenn Woiler New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Newport, Washington Posts: 13	well, these days I would not want to try a lead bag. If they can not see thru it, and it is dense, they want to search it. I have had many screeners tell me everything had to go thru x-ray, and then I read the rules in a magazine while in the air. I carry those rules with me so if need be, I can force them to inspect something rather than x-ray. I wonder what they think could be fit in to a 35mm cartridge? glenn

April 3rd, 2003, 08:34 AM	#42
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Our rules do not apply to overseas travel. Foreign inspectors my not hand inspect your film. Lead bags offer some protection against X-rays. It may be over kill for domestic travel, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 25th, 2004, 11:27 AM	#43
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	taqes going through airport security Hey guys--This is probably a stupid question, but better safe than sorry. I will be taking all my tapes (87 hours worth) on a move from New York to Oregon and will be going through airport security with them. Do I need to worry about them being xrayed? As far as I know, only magnetic fields can destroy tape, not x-rays, but I just want to make sure, for obvious reasons. I have backed up about 70 hrs of ftg and will be Fedexing that to myself, but there is still 17 hrs that I only have one copy of. Also, I'll be taking two external hard drives through security. OK, thanks for the advice! Peter

February 25th, 2004, 11:58 AM	#44
Jeff Patnaude Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Duluth, Georgia Posts: 248	I think there's been a good amount of discussion here regarding this. Since I've just returned from 3 location shoots in the past month, we haven't had any problems with running tapes through machines. I would not check them with baggage however- always hand carry. Good luck, Jeff Patnaude

February 25th, 2004, 12:57 PM	#45
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	thanks Jeff!