Ainslie
I don't see anything in the black pants. I have viewed on a crt monitor and my editing system Dell 2405. They and the jeans are out of focus as is the rest of the backround due to DoF but that's OK. The compression is Mpeg4 of some form. There is more in a thread under industry news with references. It is not stated as to what chip technology is being used but it is likely to be the chip from Ambarella considering the press and coincidence of price.

Ron Evans

Ainslie
Hi again. Yes I see what you are talking about. At about 23sec there are blockies on the black pants, still on the baby clip. Data rate is obviously not quite enough. Though this could be due to the re-encoding using WMV 9. The preferences show it to be a 1280x720, WMV 9.1, CBR at 8.19Mbs. The original MPEG4 could be a lot better.

Ron Evans

Wowzers that's impressive given the price.

-Steve

I have to say, for an $800 pricetag I'm very impressed. I just finally took a look at it after taking a break from working on some stuff and I have to say it looks pretty good.

I skimmed the thread but didn't see any mention, but this seems like it has to have been re-encoded from what the camcorder already put to sd card because I doubt it would write in wmv.

I see lots of possibilities for this camera. The engineer in me keeps thinking "Rip it apart, put it in a new housing, a lens mount..." then it trails off. If I wasn't so busy I'd be all over trying to get this camera.

Anyone got any raw footage from the camera or any other footage posted. Just curious.

This is very impressive for such a small camera!

Have you guys seen the 0.6X wide lens adaptor they have made for this, it looks kinda cute when you put the 0.6X wide lens on :)

http://www.akihabaranews.com/news-10...+monster!.html

The footage seems to have a kinda filmic motion (probably due to the progressive nature).

I think I'll probably end up buying one of these, its kind of a go anywhere shoot anytime type cam, great for prosumers like us who EVEN when shooting family movies always have quailty in the back of our minds.

I think Sanyo must have understood that since people will view the footage on either a Computer or HDTV, it had to match peoples expectation and when viewed on a HDTV, it not be as forgiving as viewing on SD. One thing is for sure it looks alot better than a lot of miniDV.

Now when can I buy one in the UK?

Anhar

sweet
 

This camera is looking sweeter by the day. That WA lens suggests that Sanyo had more than home movies in mind with this camera. Well, the external mic jack was the first sign that this is being aimed at the pro market. I predict Panasonic will be next out of the block with an HD version of the AV100, called the HD100? I'll bet anything on that.

This camera is incredible. I just played the clip back on my G4 Powerbook using Flip4Mac through Quicktime and it played fine (only a 1.25 ghz processor). This thing will be an absolute boon to doc filmmakers...imagine the intimacy, the access! OK, I'll settle down. Is it too late to return my HVX200? Sanyo makes some quality products, BTW. I have always used their cell phones and they consistently win JD Power for best cell phone manufacturer. Was it someone on this board that mentioned steve jobs and the CEO of Sanyo were friends? Interesting...so when can we get one?

Peter

Now! On E-Bay for $1300+ (shipped from Japan) or pre-order from Amazon for $799...

I'm buying one now! How much for the SD card?

This looks pretty damn cool but the limitations of SD cards make the recording time kinda sucky:

"To give you an idea what you can record on a 2GB SD, in the best setting (HD-SHQ) you can record 28 minutes and 45 seconds"

I guess it's not a big deal though.

That's still 18 minutes more than you can record with 2 P2 cards which cost more than a handful of Sanyo cams. (Substantially different format, but the point is that folks seem to be fine with recording 8 minutes at a time)

..
 

28min is enough for me..i would probaly use laptop directly to camera casue it supports usb 2.0

this is nice clip of hdr-a1 upscale to 1920x1080

http://videopage.net/morita/Hi_Vision/8M_fujiwara.wmv

ok - got it to play ! oh man , if you had told me a month ago my next camcorder would be a Sanyo , I'd have laughed. Not laughing now. The cards are no issue to me considering they're good for about 50,000 offloads. I rarely shoot more than an hour at a time anyway. I'd start with one 4g and one 2g. If only Jean Cocteau was alive today , he'd be a happy man. Kurth

Are you kidding? I just downloaded and watched the whole thing. I just want to confirm this: that was shot with the new 720P Sanyo camcorder? The one that's going to retail for $799 in the US?

$10 says that this little cam is the holy grail for us indies.

I think that particular shot was taken with the sony A1 CMOS HDV camcorder.
Bob C

Thanks Bob you just saved me from downloading that monster ~700MB yikes !


Please note to all that clip is the Sony A1 HDV NOT the Sanyo

Anhar

It definetly does seem like a fairly good setup for indies to use depending on the level of manual control. But Like I said before some serious potential for major modifications to this little cam for serious indie movie making.

Unlike the Bayonet mount for the FX1, in the case of a major screwup in trying to do some werid modifications that involve major dissassembly, your only out 800 dollars rather than several thousand.

If this thing delievers half decent quality then it should be a hit.

Guys have a look at the following threads, lots of information:

Panasonic HD prototypes:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58564

Samsung HD h264 camera with 17-19Mb/s.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58261

Ambarella full h264 chip, note the extreme low datarate needed for p60 and the quoted:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58391

The JVC Camera, one article says it will do 1080 as well (but could be just an error) but, it seems, that it will still sue HDV:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=52319

Other threads on the Sanyo:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57556
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=57340

Please note, that the Samsung is said to have uncompressed HDMI output, around 17-19Mb/s.

Have a look for the comparison of transcode performance between Mpeg2, WMV, and h264 Mpeg4.

H264 (I don't know about Mpeg4) has the ability to mask blocking.

Is it available in native mpeg4, thats only 6 or 9Mb/s, would get rid of any artifacts and is nearly the same datarate?

Yes, an "Shooters Preferred Second Camera (second, backup, special purpose and stunt cameras)" forum would be good, as a general place for these cameras, but what about "Solid State/Hard Drive mpeg4/h264 cameras", instead?

.
 

yes.. the whole clip is sony hdr-a1
hdr-hc1 also can perform Similar to this.
this clip is converted to canopus hq codec 4:2:2 and upscale to 1920x1080

http://videopage.net/morita/Hi_Vision/8M_fujiwara.wmv

Very much looking forward to seeing user tests and straight footage from this little camera.

I am a bit heartbroken that there apparently will be no european 25p version.

Also wondering if there is a filter thread on the lens. Perhaps the WA adapter is proprietary? That would also be unfortunate.

Looks pretty good otherwise, though!

Yes, I'm very heartbroken, too. This would have been - as stated before - the perfect lens hack victim.

Just imagin adapting it to Bolex or Beaulieu 16mm c-mount threads and using some nice little 16mm primes on them.

Like a Schneider Kreuznach 1:0.95 25mm

Hellooooo DOF!

And it would look so cool (the 16mm primes are pretty small as well, would keep the form factor).

If the pixels on the 1/2,5 " 5 MP Sensor are too small to have microlens in front of them, the Sanyo may tolerate the wide apperture and this plan could work.

But maybe manufacturing is so advanced now that they can build such a small microlens structure. This would be good for the picture with the build in lens, but very bad for my purpose.

Well finally I managed to see the sample clip. Instead of right clicking and saving as, I had to left click it and open it in WMP. That tricked worked. Thanks.

Now to the footage - WOW! Amazing. Incredible colors, better than any 1 chiper I have seen. And the resolution is amazing as well.

Yes there are artifacts. BUT remeber that this is a VC1 encoded clip and so we don't know which atifacts are associated with which enoding, since it was encoded twice - first by the camera and then by whoever coverted to clip to WMV.

BUT Is this a prank? I mean seriously, how do we know that the Sanyo was really used for this clip??? It looks way too good. Maybe it is not a prank but an error and it is the footage of the Panasonic P2 HD Camera?

Original *.mp4 (not reencoded!) clip 1280x720p30 from Sanyo HD1 exist?

Great Family camera, not an ndie camera
 

Ok, I think we might be jumping the Gun on this one, sure its a great little camera no disputes there, however for any real inde use I personally can not see it happen, perhaps others may do wonderful things with this camera.

Anhar

Just managed to download it, but can't get that WMV format to play properly (works best at 50% speed and drops the ball again at 25%, odd). I had little trouble playing the other HD1 native Mpeg4 clip though, any chance that we could get to see the original, there are a few things I would like to see if Mpeg4 is causing them?

Was this shout in 9Mbps mode or 6Mbps 720p camera mode?

Ok, poor latitude, but might be caused by the codec/player. Seen the dark pants blocking too, maybe also in the face. Sanyo could fix this with firmware change (worth contacting them to let them know). Noticed that big movements, like the hand, the hairs all blur out, codec or low frame rate? Hard to tell, could be media player. Otherwise I am impressed at what they can fit in 9Mbps, but I think h264 at 18-25Mbps would do.

I have found that if you turn use overlays off in the player you get a more natural colour playback, and the edge of colour regions don't appear to change so harshly. There is also a selection on the MS player that turns off video smoothing.

Jung, thanks for putting up the video.

Wayne.

Lens hacking would only affect the res not the dof. Might be a cool camera for an adapter however.Kurth

Wayne, try last build MediaPlayerClassic6.4.8.7 or VLC player

You might, if you can increase the aperture with a SLR lens through a condenser arrangement.

Thanks. Have latest VLC, and WMP, but native mpeg4 works many times better than WMP.

Yes SLR and condenser is possible, I was thinking of something else:

If you can replace the original lens with a mount for prime lenses, you will get a shallower depth of field IF the primes have very wide apertures (wider than the build in lens).

One example is the Drake cam (see Alternative Imaging methods). They get very shallow 35mm style DOF with a 2/3" sensor using primes with very wide apertures. The only reason they can do this, is because the sensor doesn't have a microlens-array in front of the silicone.

But I don't want to extend this discussion too far. Just imagining how cool this little cam would be with small but fully manual lens for 16mm cameras on it.

Sorry to tell you, but you can't change the DOF without a ground glass or other intermediate focal plane between the lens and the sensor.
It's just not possible to change DOF with any combination of just lens's.

I doubt that the Sanyo is stopped down much either. They want all the light they can get. So hoping that a F1.2 lens would help is probably
futile. But when you get the Sanyo, are you *really* going to hack it's lens off? Really?
-Les

Les, you are right. If it comes with a 1.2 lens, it makes no sense at all.

I think I am creating a bit of a misunderstanding. Obviously, the DOF of the camera won't change. What would chance would be the maximum aperture of the lens. That's what I was referring to. The picture of a 1/2,5" imaging sensor at 1.2 would probably have the same DOF as a 35mm film (not photo) stopped down to 8. (Not calculated, just an estimate - I can calculate precisely if requested).

I would have hacked if the following three conditions:
1) PAL version with 25p
2) Aperture of build-in lens >= 1.8
3) live video out (to monitor on an external LCD screen)

As 1) is probably not going to materialise, its purely hypothetical. Anyway, if someone would like to join my dreaming, feel free to email me.

Here is a conversation I am having with the akihabaranews guy, about the camera, he is waiting for a review unit.

http://forum.akihabaranews.com/viewt...asc&highlight=

Jung, any chance we can get a copy of that footage in the cameras native format (Media player does nasty things to footage quality, as can be seen from that trans-codec review I posted earlier)?


Thanks

Wayne.

Hello all,

with this links you can get the original movie files.

http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...060116baby.MP4

http://china.nikkeibp.co.jp/china/im...60116child.MP4

The quality seems much better.

Jony Upper, danke! Nice samples:)

native files
 

Yes, thanks very much for posting those. I fooled around with them for a bit in After Effects. Looks good on an SD screen, and good on my CRT.

The auto-exposure looks a little "steppy."

Had a look at those clips, which I assume are unprocessed originals. Better, can still see the problem on the black trousers and faces (more evident if you put the brightness down and contrast up) and anti aliasing. Is it my imagination, or is motion better than we expected. On the woman walking in front of the child left to right just after the yellow balloon appears you can see a lot of blocking on the head, and other areas of movement, even slow movement on mouth, but on others very little. Things that move don't seem to blur out unless they are moving fast enough (except maybe the newspaper text/hairs) to form blur in the shutter interval. The latitude problem is not really improved.

Fast panning, waves and low light shots would tell a lot of what's left.

A great consumer camera, certainly makes Flash cameras more viable for consumers. If this had came out a few years ago we would want one. I'll wait for higher bit rate h264 cameras.

Re-edit: I forgot to mention about the motion blur, that I don't know for certain that it isn't still there, because VLC won't zoom the video on this system.

Anyone got one yet?
 

I see the price has dropped on eBay down to £488 including shipping to UK.....

I have a 4GB MMCPlus card which should hold more like a DV tape worth of video, anyone any idea if they work in it?

Cheers

Jamie