Filter Size
 

Here is a link where you can see somebody putting the wide angle lenses on the front of cam (at the 3/4 of the clip). It seems like the additional lense is pushed more than screewed and that its frame surrounds the original lenses.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/PdafrancePodcastVideo?m=56

Luc-Henri

HD1 and 35mm adapter!
 

Okay so who wants to try the HD1 with a DYI 35mm adapter of some sort?

That's something I'd really like to see... the extra softening by the ground glass should ease the compression even more producing perhaps less artifacts! After down rezzing to SD or DVD the results might very well be quite amazing... we need to test this.

Joseph - I love your last set of tests, these images are comparable to the ones on the Japanese site I posted earlier.

(Now if I can just get my bloody directshow in AVIsynth working properly to play these MP4 files in Windows Media player or Virtual dub, I can try various tests and methods burning to DVD)

Look form the HD adaptor threads in alternative imaging first, that should ease the learning curve.

Could I suggest? Posting some comment of what is found in each clip, and analysis, for future clips. Loading all the clips takes a long time and maxes out accounts (plus they keep stopping with errors).

Thanks

Wayne.

OK, so maybe there are no threads after all. I guess that is a good way for Sanyo to make sure you buy their lens..

Here are a couple of left to right pan clips at the metro station:

S 1/30 manual mode. I believe ND was on and A = f8:
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/panS30.MP4

A f6.8 manual mode. I believe ND was on and S = ?:
www.gamersden.com/hd1test/panA68.MP4

BTW you can not go higher then f6.8 in manual modes. In the beginning when then picture is pretty still the quality looks pretty much the same in both clips. The picture is much more blurred in 1/30 during movment. So, I think good quality and be achieved with either setting depending on what you need.

What's the soft case like Joseph? Does it protect the cam?

I have not used the case, but it it pretty firm (but not hard) and should provide good protection, unless you stand on it ;)

Yeah maybe the next test can be a "drop" test to see how well the case performs! LOL

I know when Sanyo switched cases from the C4 to the C6 I was disappointed. The C4 had a hard case you could put the whole camera in. The C6 case looks more like a pistol holster.

Panoramics
 

Joseph, this last clips are like school cases : the S (1/30) one shows what would be a "filage" effect, useful when you are tracking a subject moving in the same way than your panaramic does (the subject is sharp but not the background): thanks to your cam to allow that ! The second one A 6.8 is the stroboscopic effet related to shutter speed too high to give a feeling of movement.
If you want a good result for this panoramic : do it slower ! Or record the same clip a few times to test the good shutter speed (in this case, between 1/60 and 1/150 for me).
I like very much the color balance of this clips; IMO they look like Richard Estes paintings.
I think you will have a lot of pleasure whith this cam !

Luc-Henri

Panoramics bis
 

The stroboscopic effet could be an artifact of my home notebook. Its a Powerbook 1.5 Ghz, maybe a little bit short for this kind of HD even with VLC. I will try tomorow with my office Powermac G5 2X2Ghz.

Luc-Henri

Joseph - thanks for the footage- I'm more hopeful we're gonna see some great things from these little jewels. Looks far better than dv to me.
ps- I too was having problems viewing until I tried vlc. Kurth

Now, if only we could get a camcorder like this with a better CCD/CMOS x 3, and 25Mbps H.264. They can have a bunch of my money for that!

Joseph - if it's not asking too much would you be able to get some footage of some people? Perhaps some head shots and some bust-up shots would be real interesting to see... just a thought.

Not sure what the buzz is about... this is a fun tech "toy" that maybe you can mount to a mini-plane or boom pole and get some fun shots with. This is not marketed to, nor begins to perform remotely close to anything professional or even pro-sumer.

I cant believe there is talk of lens adapters, filters, mini35mm etc. The resolution is nice but the compression is lossy and extremely noisy. Any motion causes it to look terrible. I have upconverted DV and it blows this out of the water, not sure what some of you are seeing when you say it is better than DV.

This camera is a neat, affordable, fun little camera that is a nice way to play around with HD on the cheap.



ash =o)

I think we're doing the usual which is what most of us on this forum like to do - pushing and testing the limits of the consumer technology that gets put in the palm of our hands.

By the way, you're not suggesting that DV cameras like the XL2, DVX or PD's are more than prosumer are you? ;)

Pro-sumer is a weird word... entry level professional more like. I dont see a lot of consumers using them and the vast majority of people are using them to make a living with. I am all for pushing the limits with available tools, I will probably get an HD1 to play around with, but not for serious work, maybe a quirky shot that is not possible with a bigger camera. I surely wont be looking for a 4X4 filter adapter or a matte box =o)



ash =o)

I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm perfectly happy with my pro HD1 setup... .

http://www.starcentral.ca/dvinfo/prohd1.jpg

LOL... where are the rods? Do you have to have a elf pull focus?




ash =o)

Or top end consumer cameras modified ;).

I find the footage less than desirable for professional use too, but it is fun measuring and prodding it to get an indication of what to expect from the more advanced cameras next month.

You'll notice that a lot of people have been saying that it is worth keeping in your pocket for the odd on the spare of the moment shot that they can't get in time with their pro cams (news worthy shoot I guess, but also family shoots I imagine).

About the noise, ignore the first batches of clips that Joseph did in auto, the ones he did after that are improved out of sight (though still less than pro level) as they have little noise and better exposure, and this has helped compression enormously. The Japanese ones are also a good example (the water ones being the worse).


---------------------------------------------------

As far as Mini DV being better goes, I got no doubt that with motion this maybe the case, but I put this challenge down to anybody that wants to take it up:

Take the same shoot with and without motion, with both a DV camera and this camera, and display the HD at DV resolution (720*480) alongside the Mini-DV footage and compare for compression artifacts. Convert both to DVD, which is the common distribution format for many with this camera, and compare on a computer monitor. Now compare on an average CRT TV set, that usually has around 360 pixel resolution across. What you will find is that the MiniDV footage may win the first round, but once you get to DVD, you might find it the other way, once you get to display it on those cheap TV, you probably will find either they are very close, or that the HD1 wins. Why, because the lower res hides some of the compression faults, the lower you go the less they are obvious. The HD1 frame is not whole divisible by the DV frame, so macron block edges are going to be blurred somewhat, and compression problems a little. DVD works, generally, at lower bit rate than the HD1, and suffers some of the same compression problems, which it should also introduce to the conversion of the MiniDV footage, lowering the compression artifact difference, but also allowing the extra HD detail to contribute. At cheap TV resolution, now even the contents of the macro block should be obscured, the resolution is a straight division of DV resolution, so this will advantage the Mini-DV footage, as one way of coping with too much information in Mini-DV is to drop the resolution in half. So it could be suitable for some things.

Have a go, and prove me wrong.


Joseph,

25Mb/s h264, now that would be a descent HD format.

Dennis,

That is simply amazing! ;)

An other side
 

1 - Can you find a cam (even DV) with a complete exposure manual setting, two half-auto modes (Aperture priority and Shutter priority) for less than 800$ ?
2 - Do you appreciate that this cam is very very small and is able to deliver HD (in controlled conditions), and still photo comparable to dedicated cams ?

But, for me the best :
This cam has a picture signature : because of its specific artifacts, clips are immediatly identifiable and artisticaly satisfactory. We all want to record clips like baby child and late Joseph with their unique color balance. This could be the equivalent of polaroïd little cams loved by some professionals. Its a challenge to deliver a beautiful clip within the limits of the tool, and to share this experience with others.

Luc-Henri

I was using my G4 iBook with 1GRAM which handles 720p30 in RT perfectly.

The clips play with audio in the Source, but once in the Timeline there is no audio because the Sanyo's audio is packed with the video -- just like HDV. We need a utility that pulls out the audio into an AIFF file. Just like in the good old days with the JVC! :)

+++++++++++

>>>>> Like the 720p30 JVC -- the exposure of the Sanyo MUST be locked at 1/30th second. You need motion blur to overcome the strobing artifacts from shooting at 30fps. So you MUST use S mode. <<<<<<

+++++++++++

I'm completely confused by the concept of setting ISO! All video cameras have a FIXED, small, range of sensitivity that depend on the where on the gamma curve the light input is. You can't change this sensitivity range! So what is Sanyo doing when select ISO?

Is this Sanyo's way of setting video GAIN? Which means "50" would be zero gain.

If so, then every doubling of ISO is equal to +6dB gain.

Mac
 

Steve, On my Powerbook G4 1.5 1G, I only get an acceptable result (720p mp4) with the VLC freeware, QT Player does not works well. For h264 (movie trailers) QTP is the best.

I agree with the S 1/30, but the min aperture is 8 and the ND filter is just one level. The last Joseph S30 panoramic is a little bit overexposed.

Luc-Henri

To further Wayne's point I'm going to take some of Josephs clips and convert them to DVD format just to see them and watch on my 42" plasma... I can also put the ISO on my site so others can download it, burn and watch too.

Anyone have any good suggestions as far as DVD burning software HD clips? I have a few but they don't know what to do with 16:9 footage and I prefer not to have to put the clips through after effects just to resize. I want a straight process if possible. I'm using PC.

So, would a dual 1.66 Ghz MacBook Pro be able to edit it with room to spare? The debate now is what will we need to edit the h264 from the next gen pocket cameras coming next month (yep one month, one mpeg4 generation, who would have thought it four years ago).

What do you think of the quality of the footage people are now getting?

Thanks, your Plasma should be at least 852 pixels across, so you should get full DVD res through component. Is Nero Recode any good, or is it like most?

http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/ar...frameserve.htm

I'm getting very busy with work again, so time is very limited. I don't know anyone here who wants to be in clip posted on the internet, but if I find someone I will. What h264 pocket camera is going to be out next month?

Macs
 

Wayne, MacBook Pro are now 1.83 Ghz min (They changed before sending them to first users). They are said very powerful on the HD field : able to display 1080p without drops. (better than the 2x2Ghz Powermac G5).
I did some edit tests with Imovie HD 5 IDVD 5 and the available Sanyo clips : that works well on my 2x2Ghz Powermac G5, very slow on my PB G4 1.5.
You can easily create a DVD playable from the 720p clips downsized at the DVD resolution.

Luc-Henri

The news items on the Ambarella, state that cameras will be announced next month, and I think this is when the chip is becoming available to market.

I would like to see what Panasonic, JVC are doing first but I might be getting a h264 in the next couple of months, maybe even a Red camera by the end of the year.


Luc-Henri

I forgot to mention, there is the possibility that the new Ibook coming in the next month or two might be dual 1.6Ghz, but that is only a rumour going around for the last x months. We can only hope that Apple has the sense to do this.

"Anyone have any good suggestions as far as DVD burning software HD clips? I have a few but they don't know what to do with 16:9 footage and I prefer not to have to put the clips through after effects just to resize. I want a straight process if possible. I'm using PC."

Denis, I burnt some of Joseph's MPEG4 to DVD using Sonic DVDit 6 set in NTSC mode (in PAL mode it hung).

On my 21" ultrascan computer monitor the encode appeared to be flawless.

Sure, I don't know beyond that - but I often see some kind of encode degradation on this monitor and this time I didn't see any. Watching the disc was no different than watching the original file.

Yes, 16:9 just encodes automatically.

Wayne, I would most likley get any h264 poket camera as soon as it is available, as long as it's at least 720p. What is a "Red camera"?

Ash, why you are mildly perturbed by our testing the limits of a great little cam like this I don't understand.

It's got better manual controls than the PD1/HD1/HD10 - those controls were a nightmare!

I'd be surprised if you defended garden variety Super 8 film cameras while dismissing the Sanyo HD1.

As you know, many non-professional Super 8 film cameras make a great contribution.

Joseph,

Red is a 11Mp camera to be revealed at NAB, the forum is here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=110

From my experience and based on the quality I've seen from this HD cam so far, there really is no reason why I couldn't shoot an indie feature or short film project using this camera (or several of them) and actually have it screen at festivals.

Hm, I think I just created a challenge for myself.

(And to think I was going to waste $10k on an XLH1 just to make indie films)

And since they are so cheap you can have one recording at every angle to save time!

Wayne, yea sign me up. If I can afford it...

Joseph, I've checked the manual for Webcam functionality but can't seem to find it.

It's the 5th feature listed here though..

• Film in High Definition (Máx Resolution.
Film: 1,280 X 720)
• Zoom: Digital optic 10 x/10 x/Reproduction 58 x
• 3 Ways of Flash
• Raised Sensitivity in Clip Video
• Easiness “Webcam”
• Correcção de Movimento, Twinkle e
Noise of Wind in Clip Video
• Directa Impression saw handle USB (PictBridge)
• Timer of Automatic Detonation (2 the 10 second.)
• Ultra-Compacta
• Ultra-Leve
• Incorporated Stereo Microphone
• 2,0 Interface USB High-Speed
• Exit AV
• S-Vídeo Exit
(http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolo..._xacti_hd1.php)

Just wondering whether you know?

Graham, I think it is in the software manual I posted. I read in my printed manual a section called "USING AS A PC CAMERA". It says use Windows XP SP2. It will work with Windows Messenger 5.0+, or MSN Messenger 7.0+. No zoom. 15FPS.

Thanks Joseph - bizarrely, I can't locate that section in the pdf.

Oh well, just good to know it can be used in that capacity.

HD1 soft footage request
 

Is it possible to shoot some 720p footage as soft as possible instead the unpleasant crisp look of a few of the linked samples?

It would be appreciated.

What's this? Is it portuguese in the middle of an english spec text?