HD1 power autonomy

Roman Oulko · July 25th, 2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Taylor

One Problem guys. 4gb is the max right now and thats 1 hour and so is the battery :-)

So whats the point of a battery that can run more than 1hr since you MUST at that time stop recording to at the minimum swap memory cards ?

Just curious!

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

That's why i bought this from this forum http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69559 direct transfer to Ipod from your camera i have 60 gb i pod can you imagine how much i transfer to my ipod .

Wayne Morellini · July 25th, 2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Taylor

One Problem guys. 4gb is the max right now and thats 1 hour and so is the battery :-)

Is the Sanyo restricted to 4GB cards, SD can go much higher I believe, and then there is the IDE SD card converters? Can, it take advantage of the extra capacity?

Chris Taylor · July 25th, 2006, 03:27 PM

What is an IDE SD adaptor ? as far as I know there is no SD card larger than 4gb right now so its irrelevant. I imagine and hope it will support 8gb cards once they appear.

as for battery life if this camera becomes popular enough making a LARGER battery will not be hard. just leave off the battery door. Should not be that hard at all to get many times the current battery life using this method.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Wayne Morellini · July 26th, 2006, 12:16 AM

I thought I saw some mention of cards much bigger then 4GB, or even 8GB, coming eventually (which is alright just buy them when they are affordable enough).

It is a hard drive interface that plugs into a SD slot, I think I saw one for the Nintendo DS. This could make doing record times cheaper than a flash card in the short term.

Chris Taylor · July 26th, 2006, 08:37 AM

The one I saw was for MS DUO (also the DS is not SD IIRC just similar)

anyway thats for microdrives which were 4gb no better than our 4gb SD cards

8gb would be nice paired with a 2hr battery !!

They have 8gb CF cards for under $200 now. a SD to CF adaptor would be nice.

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Wayne Morellini · July 26th, 2006, 09:45 PM

I wasn't aware they were that cheap. The latest micro drives are 12GB, and bigger can be expected. But 1.8 inch drives go to something like 90GB, and should be able to interface to such a thing (not to mention that millipede 100GB SD card IBM is planning).

Chris Wells · July 26th, 2006, 09:59 PM

I think it's going to boil down to the maximum cylinder/head/sector count, filesize, and file count that the HD1 can handle. FAT32 is limited to <4GB individual files, so people should be prepared to record HD in one hour max increments. There is a question of what the maximum file count will be. I do know that SD cards hold a theoretical maximum number of files in a directory... 255 less hidden and system files if memory serves. If this theory holds up, we aren't likely to be able to record more than about 250 X 4GB of video, or 1TerraByte of HD video. I think the 10 days of total recording capacity would be great, but the 1 hour max length for clips could be a real limitation.

As a heads up to people watching eBay, the 8Gb SD cards you have read about are not measured in GigaBytes, but rather Gigabits... these are 1GB cards, craftily disguesed.

Felipe Del Villar · July 26th, 2006, 11:17 PM

The 255 limit is overcome by using multiple folders, and cameras already do that...is not uncommon to have more than 255 photos.

about the 4GB limit on file size (also there is a 32Gb limit in total capacity with FAT32) I am sure that if it is an issue cameras may be updated to automatically start a new file as the limit is reached. Also another option is to support NTFS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Wells

I think it's going to boil down to the maximum cylinder/head/sector count, filesize, and file count that the HD1 can handle. FAT32 is limited to <4GB individual files, so people should be prepared to record HD in one hour max increments. There is a question of what the maximum file count will be. I do know that SD cards hold a theoretical maximum number of files in a directory... 255 less hidden and system files if memory serves. If this theory holds up, we aren't likely to be able to record more than about 250 X 4GB of video, or 1TerraByte of HD video. I think the 10 days of total recording capacity would be great, but the 1 hour max length for clips could be a real limitation.

As a heads up to people watching eBay, the 8Gb SD cards you have read about are not measured in GigaBytes, but rather Gigabits... these are 1GB cards, craftily disguesed.

Chris Taylor · July 26th, 2006, 11:18 PM

1hr incriments is fine as long as the camera handles this seamlessly. IE I can not imagine anyone even noticing it until edit time.

this might also be why they limit it to 4gb ??

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Chris Taylor · July 26th, 2006, 11:21 PM

32gb ?? every fat32 partition I have is over 32gb ?? can you elaborate on this ?

I have had bad encounters with NTFS in the past so I tend to do everything fat32 except for one partition for when I get a download that is over 4gb :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Chris Wells · July 27th, 2006, 07:16 AM

Starting a new file at 4GB is a clear solution, but I don't expect they do that automatically now and I don't anticipate Sanyo will release a firmware update for this when they won't even fix known flaws.

I believe the mathematical limit to a FAT32 is 2TB, so barring limitations of hardware, we should be able to accept new higher capacity cards. Keep in mind that FAT32 looses some efficiency when partitions exceed 8GB.

Wayne Morellini · July 27th, 2006, 09:41 AM

It really doesn't matter about all these things, just that we are not limited to to 4GB 1 hour at a time.

Felipe Del Villar · July 27th, 2006, 05:07 PM

The reason for the 32 Gb limit is from the format program:

from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat32:

Windows 2000 and Windows XP can read and write to FAT32 filesystems of any size, but the format program on these platforms can only create FAT32 filesystems up to 32 GB. Thompson and Thompson (2003) write[4] that "Bizarrely, Microsoft states that this behavior is by design." Microsoft's knowledge base article 184006[3] indeed confirms the limitation and the by design statement, but gives no rationale or explanation. Peter Norton's opinion[5] is that "Microsoft has intentionally crippled the FAT32 file system."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Taylor

32gb ?? every fat32 partition I have is over 32gb ?? can you elaborate on this ?

I have had bad encounters with NTFS in the past so I tend to do everything fat32 except for one partition for when I get a download that is over 4gb :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

Chris Wells · July 27th, 2006, 07:41 PM

Have to agree with Wayne on this one. Still, one question begs answering.

When streaming video is recorded on a FAT32 partition in Windows, and the filesize grows too large, the file becomes corrupt. We should be testing this when 8GB cards become available. In the past, I have recorded long sessions (kids Christmas play for example) where the total runtime would exceed one hour. If the cam jumps to file 2, great. If it ends recording and I have to press a button to start it again, fine. If it corrupts the file and I can't recover it without liberally applying brilliance, I'll want to know so I can prevent the scenerio.

Of course, this is assuming the format of the memory card must be FAT32, and that's something I havn't qualified. Has anyone tried an NTFS formatted card?

Wayne Morellini · July 28th, 2006, 01:22 AM

I think the reason that they can go to bigger sizes is because they adjust the size of the blocks/sectors. It goes back to the old saying, nobody would ever need more than 640K memories for programs. Likewise, they probably though 4GB was more than what people could use.

The original MS flash file format they used in PCMCIA and with compact flash, and probably most, was based on FAT-16, I don't know what they do today.

Chris, I agree with you about corruption, probably pays to make Sanyo aware of the problem and solutions before they make a firmware update/HD1a. It would be great if Sanyo did something unique, and made the firmware of the HD1 open and provided a programming manual. There are risks, but a simple programming interface that quarantined programs from any sensitive part of the hardware that could be damaged would do the trick. I could do some neat tricks on something like that.

Actually, I think I would prefer the HD1, if it could be firmware upgraded to the new model, and new batches did not have any of the bugs. that would be nice, custom comrpession routines 10 bit etc.

July 25th, 2006, 03:27 PM	#18
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	What is an IDE SD adaptor ? as far as I know there is no SD card larger than 4gb right now so its irrelevant. I imagine and hope it will support 8gb cards once they appear. as for battery life if this camera becomes popular enough making a LARGER battery will not be hard. just leave off the battery door. Should not be that hard at all to get many times the current battery life using this method. Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

July 26th, 2006, 12:16 AM	#19
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I thought I saw some mention of cards much bigger then 4GB, or even 8GB, coming eventually (which is alright just buy them when they are affordable enough). It is a hard drive interface that plugs into a SD slot, I think I saw one for the Nintendo DS. This could make doing record times cheaper than a flash card in the short term.

July 26th, 2006, 08:37 AM	#20
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	The one I saw was for MS DUO (also the DS is not SD IIRC just similar) anyway thats for microdrives which were 4gb no better than our 4gb SD cards 8gb would be nice paired with a 2hr battery !! They have 8gb CF cards for under $200 now. a SD to CF adaptor would be nice. Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

July 26th, 2006, 09:45 PM	#21
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I wasn't aware they were that cheap. The latest micro drives are 12GB, and bigger can be expected. But 1.8 inch drives go to something like 90GB, and should be able to interface to such a thing (not to mention that millipede 100GB SD card IBM is planning).

July 26th, 2006, 09:59 PM	#22
Chris Wells Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kelowna, Canada Posts: 148	I think it's going to boil down to the maximum cylinder/head/sector count, filesize, and file count that the HD1 can handle. FAT32 is limited to <4GB individual files, so people should be prepared to record HD in one hour max increments. There is a question of what the maximum file count will be. I do know that SD cards hold a theoretical maximum number of files in a directory... 255 less hidden and system files if memory serves. If this theory holds up, we aren't likely to be able to record more than about 250 X 4GB of video, or 1TerraByte of HD video. I think the 10 days of total recording capacity would be great, but the 1 hour max length for clips could be a real limitation. As a heads up to people watching eBay, the 8Gb SD cards you have read about are not measured in GigaBytes, but rather Gigabits... these are 1GB cards, craftily disguesed.

July 26th, 2006, 11:18 PM	#24
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	1hr incriments is fine as long as the camera handles this seamlessly. IE I can not imagine anyone even noticing it until edit time. this might also be why they limit it to 4gb ?? Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

July 26th, 2006, 11:21 PM	#25
Chris Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Levittown PA Posts: 132	32gb ?? every fat32 partition I have is over 32gb ?? can you elaborate on this ? I have had bad encounters with NTFS in the past so I tend to do everything fat32 except for one partition for when I get a download that is over 4gb :-) Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

July 27th, 2006, 07:16 AM	#26
Chris Wells Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kelowna, Canada Posts: 148	Starting a new file at 4GB is a clear solution, but I don't expect they do that automatically now and I don't anticipate Sanyo will release a firmware update for this when they won't even fix known flaws. I believe the mathematical limit to a FAT32 is 2TB, so barring limitations of hardware, we should be able to accept new higher capacity cards. Keep in mind that FAT32 looses some efficiency when partitions exceed 8GB.

July 27th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#27
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	It really doesn't matter about all these things, just that we are not limited to to 4GB 1 hour at a time.

July 27th, 2006, 07:41 PM	#29
Chris Wells Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kelowna, Canada Posts: 148	Have to agree with Wayne on this one. Still, one question begs answering. When streaming video is recorded on a FAT32 partition in Windows, and the filesize grows too large, the file becomes corrupt. We should be testing this when 8GB cards become available. In the past, I have recorded long sessions (kids Christmas play for example) where the total runtime would exceed one hour. If the cam jumps to file 2, great. If it ends recording and I have to press a button to start it again, fine. If it corrupts the file and I can't recover it without liberally applying brilliance, I'll want to know so I can prevent the scenerio. Of course, this is assuming the format of the memory card must be FAT32, and that's something I havn't qualified. Has anyone tried an NTFS formatted card?

July 28th, 2006, 01:22 AM	#30
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I think the reason that they can go to bigger sizes is because they adjust the size of the blocks/sectors. It goes back to the old saying, nobody would ever need more than 640K memories for programs. Likewise, they probably though 4GB was more than what people could use. The original MS flash file format they used in PCMCIA and with compact flash, and probably most, was based on FAT-16, I don't know what they do today. Chris, I agree with you about corruption, probably pays to make Sanyo aware of the problem and solutions before they make a firmware update/HD1a. It would be great if Sanyo did something unique, and made the firmware of the HD1 open and provided a programming manual. There are risks, but a simple programming interface that quarantined programs from any sensitive part of the hardware that could be damaged would do the trick. I could do some neat tricks on something like that. Actually, I think I would prefer the HD1, if it could be firmware upgraded to the new model, and new batches did not have any of the bugs. that would be nice, custom comrpession routines 10 bit etc.