Just wanted to let everyone know that I finally got all my parts and got the system put together. I did change a few things along the way. I started to worry about noise on the Supermicro chassis. I instead opted for a Coolermaster Cosmos chassis which is still a very large chassis like the Supermicro but is also supposed to be very quiet. Has a lot of sound insulation in it. For a power supply I chose the FSP Group Everest 1010 1000 watt power supply. For the video card I went with the 8800 GTX as opposed to the Ultra. The only other adjustment I had to make was the memory. In building the system I found that according to the board docs I couldn't use the 800 speed memory with the E5440 processor because it only has a 1333 FSB. According to the docs 800 speed memory is only supported by CPU's with a 1600 FSB. So I got the exact same spec memory in a 667 version. The only other "gotcha" I ran into was that unbelievably enough there are no Vista drivers for the Intel 82575EB ethernet controller integrated on this board. If someone can find them I'd love to have them. So to get connected on a network I found an old 3com 3c905 and stuck it in there.

So, what I finally ended up with are the specs I posted previously with the exception of the graphics card, memory, chassis, and power supply. I haven't seen anyone else post here that they've actually completed a system with the new 45nm Xeons and the X7DWA-N MB. As of late yesterday I actually have it built, up, and running. And yes, I've read the posts regarding Vista but I decided to stick with it anyway. Currently the system is clean with no software other than the OS, all the latest Microsoft updates from Windows Update, and the 3com driver for the NIC. I'll be anxious to see how this performs.

If anyone would like me to repost my total parts list and cost with the changes let me know and I'll be happy to dig through the receipts and repost the total build spec as I have it built.

[quote]When installing your software, make sure you have your BIOS settings correct especially the AHCI settings, and before installing Windows, install the drivers with F6. If that does not work, reset the BIOS to not use AHCI, let Windows install itself, then from Windows install the Supermicro drivers for AHCI, reboot and then reset your BIOS to use AHCI. That should take care of any installation problems.[\quote]

Harm, I just went back and reread this thread and your post I quoted above. I forgot all about this setting when I installed Vista. You say to install the drivers with F6. I assume you mean the AHCI drivers? Would these presumably be on the Supermicro disk with the MB? Or on the Vista install disk? You also say that if I don't do it on initial install to install the Supermicro drivers after the fact, reboot, then reset the BIOS to enable AHCI. The problem with this, and the other "gotcha" I forgot to mention, is that the the CD that comes with the Supermicro board isn't valid for the X7DWA-N. Yes, that's right, they're shipping an old CD that doesn't support the board. Inserting that CD will tell you something to the effect of "sorry, this CD only supports the following boards..."

So currently I have Vista installed and AHCI disabled in the BIOS.

Is this the solution?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/922976

Travis,

I was thinking XPPro+SP2. When installing that, you have the F6 option. Not sure about Vista. I tried that on one machine and took it off at the earliest opportune moment.

You may have a look here for the most recent drivers: http://supermicro.com/support/resour...ce_drivers.cfm

I agree that the Supermicro motherboards are more workstation oriented than any of the Intel ones. Especially in the 5400X chipset series.

The Geforce 7950 would probably be your ideal GPU card, all things considered. I recommend getting one, and if you find something you don't like about it, try again, but it should be fine for all of your needs.

Travis, does it keep everything cool enough? And how about the noise? My PC will be in the living room so I'm hoping it's not unbearably loud.

I'd love to see it. I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to a final system spec and I like the idea of the case you chose to go with the Supermicro board.

I can't get that power supply over here so if I do end up with the (over $1,000AU) Supermicro board I'm going to have to investigate an alternative that meets Supermicro's specifications about connectors (none of which I really understand)...

My guy just got back to me with another alternative board, a Tyan described here:

Tyan i5000XT - $740.00.

What are your opinions of this one compared to the Supermicro?

EDIT: Here's the link to Tyan's web site about the board recommended to me. It does not mention 45nm compatability.

http://www.tyan.com/product_board_de...d=43S2696A2NRF

These ones do, and may be the right ones to go with. Of course, we can't get these over here yet so I can't assume anything about the prices so they may end up being the same price as the Supermicro board.

http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=560
http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=562
http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=564

John,

The Tyan with PID562 looks pretty similar to the SuperMicro. From the 3 links you gave on the Tyan website, this one appealed the most to me because of the 8 FBDIMM sockets. The thing missing is on-board fire wire. but the location of the PCI slot makes it easy to add a simple PCI fire wire card. You have to take into consideration that the PCI-e 8x slot will be covered by the video card, if it is one of the 2 slot versions.

The most noteworthy difference is the maximum FSB, which in case of Tyan is limited to 1333 and is 1600 with the SuperMicro. Also the SuperMicro supports DDR2-800 and the Tyan only DDR2-667.

The board suggested to you by the dealer is based on the Greencreek chipset and does not support the Harpertown 45 nm CPU's. It is a previous generation mobo in comparison to the Seaburg based boards.

If you use the PC in your living room I would suggest you take a good look at the dimensions of the chassis. The SuperMicro SC743 TQ-865B is not very high, but very deep. The Coolermaster is higher, but less deep.

In terms of noise there are a couple of things to consider, SuperMicro has a relatively silent PS, has passive cooling of the CPU's and uses an air shroud to accomplish that. Coolermaster has no air shroud and requires active cooling of the CPU's. Also the PS may be a bit louder than the 'silent' version of the Supermicro.
A last remark, any case less deep than the Supermicro may give more difficult installation of expansion boards, less clean cabling and therefore lesser cooling, requiring higher fan speeds to keep temperatures in check and, most importantly IMO is the lack of hot swappable drive bays, which is so easy.

In an ideal situation you could compare the two options side by side in operation, but that is hardly achievable. Hope this helps.

John, here's what I finally ended up with.

Supermicro X7DWA-N $698
Coolermaster Cosmos 1000 chassis $190
FSP Group Everest 1010 watt PS $280
Soundblaster X-Fi Elite Pro $249
Kingston DVR667D2D8F5K2/2G memory (x2) $220
eVGA GeForce 8800GTX $550
Vantec EZ Swap MRK-200ST-BK (x3) $105
Intel Xeon E5440 $770
Areca ARC-1261ML $820
Areca battery backup $129
Areca ARC-1000 LCD $79
Areca 2GB Memory Upgrade $189
Seagate 500GB ST3500630NS (x8) $1199
Western Digital Raptor X 150GB $175
Sony BWU-200S Bluray burner $599
Dell 2707WFP Ultra Sharp $875
Windows Vista Business $280

Total $7486

The case itself and the fans included with the case are very quiet. The only noticeable noise comes from the fan included with the CPU. That CPU fan is definitely not quiet. I'm going to be looking for an aftermarket CPU fan to replace it but haven't gotten one yet.

Otherwise it seems to be a pretty good configuration. With the system drive in one of the Vantec trays I can just swap out OS's if I want. I use the other two vantec trays for the Seagate drives and the remaning 5 1/4" slot for the Areca LCD.

Harm, I was able to use the Microsoft article I linked to successfully switch to AHCI.

Harm is also right that the Coolermaster doesn't have the hot swappable drive bays. For me this really isn't an issue. The 6 internal drive bays are where I'm running the Seagates and can't see a need for swapping them unless one fails. When and if that happens I don't really mind shutting down the system, opening it up, and replacing the failed drive. And with the Vantec enclosure I have a quick swap of the system drives to change OS's anytime I like.

One other thing I'll mention if anyone is looking to install Vista on the X7DWA-N board: the integrated network controller is flat out incompatible with Vista. I couldn't figure out why I had such a hard time finding a driver until I found an intel document stating that 82575 NIC chipset is incompatible.

So I've now got it up and running, have Vista installed, have all the Windows Update updates installed, updated the intel chipset software from a download from Supermicro, and am now in the process of installing CS3.

Harm, I looked at the benchmark you wanted me to run. According to his site it doesn't work with CS3.

Travis,

The benchmark was updated by Bill, but most likely he did not yet have the opportunity to make it available on his site. He obviously has been very busy.

When he has it available and you run the test, you should not be surprised when you end up with the number 1 position with your system. This is one heck-of-a-system. Thanks for posting all the components and their current prices. This is very helpful for other people looking for a top-notch system.

Happy editing....

The RAM and FSB differences are only an issue if you are planning to buy a top end Xeon CPU, which while clearly faster, is extremely expensive. I am hoping that the Greencreek 5000 chipset will support the new 5400 CPUs with a BIOS update. I know one person whom that is not yet working for. The 1333FSB and socket are the same. It should be similar to the BIOS updates needed for the Prescott Core or the Core2 release. I am planning to buy an XW8400 with cheap 5100 CPUs, and replace them with >2.00Ghz 5400 CPUs once they become widely available, assuming they get supported correctly for the older MBs.

Hi Travis,

Thanks so much! That's a huge help!

Can I ask a few questions:


Coolermaster Cosmos 1000 chassis $190

I'm seriously considering this case after I read the reviews. As much as Harm recommends the Supermicro case, I just can't see it as the right choice for me. Does this case have any difficulty fitting the large Supermicro board? Or did you get it in there without any hassles? How about heat? Do you think it will become an issue?

Vantec EZ Swap MRK-200ST-BK (x3) $105
How? Can you explain this to me? I looked these things up after seeing this and the one thing about them that appealed to me was that it says "If you're worried about the Internet affecting your PC then just use one of these drives instead..."

I thought that sounded good but I don't understand it at all! How can that work? I assume it's a good solution for backing up? Also, can you explain to me where it fits in that case? In the front external bays? Or is it external? And if so, how does it plug in??

I'd definitely be interested to hear your choice here as I will probably copy it!

So has anyone here had any luck getting a 5400CPU to work in a 5000 series board. The 5000p and 5000i Blackford chipsets are certified by Intel to work, but the 5000x Greencreek workstation chipset is never specifically listed, which is the basis of the xw8400 and Precision 490/690 workstation lines. I know one person is having issues with the xw8400 and a E5410. I was hoping other people had tried this.

There was plenty of room in the Cosmos case. I had no problems fitting everything in or with any of the expansion boards fitting. I've never actually seen the Supermicro chassis but the Cosmos is pretty darn big.

The Vantec is just a SATA enclosure that fits in one of the 5 1/4" drive bays. It uses a tray that has the drive in it which then just slides in. So to swap OS's I can just remove the system drive from the tray, pop in another drive with a different OS, then turn the system back on. I want to keep this machine "clean" without a lof of other software such as games. This way I could swap in another sytem drive with games or another OS.

Me too! So when you swap OSs you don't need to re-attach cables or anything? Is that the idea of it - so that it is simply a matter of slide out the old one and slide in the new one? And it sort of clicks into place?

well if its money is no object.... then you need to check out the new Dell
work stations coming out soon... wow.... these are going to scream...

Check them out at Dell.com

goto workstations and they should be there for you to check out

Hopefully soon... Maybe... And even so, overpriced. Putting together the custom system online is already more in US$ than I'm planning to spend in AU$, which says a lot about what the prices will be when those workstations come out over here.

The latest update from the people doing quotes for me is:

1. Only a 74GB Raptor system drive is necessary. Anything more than that is a waste. Opinions on this? Given that I really only will ever have Windows and Adobe Creative Suite on here, I guess it's probably true, right?

2. ATP (AP28K72S8BHE6S) 1GB FB-DIMM DDR2 667 RAM is the memory recommended to me (4 GB of it). Knowing zero about RAM, can someone advise me as to whether it's reputable?

3. Power Color ATI X1950 PCI-Ex 512MB DDR3 GPUs keep getting suggested to me as the cards to use instead of Nvidia. Reviews are fairly favourable but they're quite old so I thought I'd ask around.

4. People are telling me to ditch the 4 Samsung Spinpoint HDDs for the Seagate CUDA 500GB, 7200rpm, 16MB Cache, 3.0GB/s NCQ SATA II HDD.

They appear to have the same spec's but I remember reading here somewhere about Seagate HDDs being wonky when it comes to RAID - am I right? I asked some dealers about it and they said they knew nothing of any 'wonkiness'.

5. They keep telling me "Don't put this in your living room! It will be too loud!"

Is that a fact? Isn't that where some of the money is going on the Supermicro case & PSU? To keep the noise down? Travis says the Coolermaster case is quiet (except the CPU fans) but these dealers aren't too willing to build it with anything other than the Supermicro case... I'd much rather have the Coolermaster one though...

6. I've had it suggested to me to only purchase one of the 5450s now and wait a year or so to purchase a second (when they're substantially cheaper) which would sort of act as an upgrade path.

What are people's opinions of this? Is the system ok with only one CPU? And would it be ok in a year when I get a second brand new one running alongside a year old one?

For the Raptor, by necessary, do you mean size wise or speed wise? Either way it should be sufficient, but the 150GB version is advantagious in every way.

Related to RAM, but as a side note, have you considered a 64bit OS? Since you aren't using any hardware I/O (AJA, Matrox, etc.) it should be an option, and should increase performance and stability. I hear that it helps Premiere not slow down with long timelines.

I have an X1950, and it is fine.

It will be loud, if you want quiet, get a Core2Quad based system. No reason to only get one 5400 CPU. For dual CPUs, they need to be identical steppings, so a CPU bought next year may not work correctly.

I have but have heard negatve things about 64bit + CS3. Am I wrong? What other steps do I need to take to get a 64bit O/S?

I have been seriously considering "down-grading" to a Core2Extreme - the 6850. It would save me so much money that I keep telling myself that I'd be nuts not to get one of those. The system I have spec'd as a 6850 is almost half the price of the 8 core Xeon and like you say will probably be just fine.

Also, if I did get a 6850, could I still have a 64bit O/S? I don't really understand what it even is or what it means? Can you fill me in?

The biggest advantage of 64bit OS, is that you can use more than 4GB of RAM. The advantages are less dramatic when running 32bit apps, but it still doubles the max for PPro and AE from 2GB to 4GB, which is the limit for 32bit apps. Basically it is only worth upgrading to 64bit if you have 8GB of RAM, but that is only like $100 more these days. The reason I can't use 64bit is that Matrox and AJA don't have 64bit drivers for their hardware. 32bit Software is usually compatible with XP64, but all drivers need a dedicated 64bit version. Most of these are now available, and I here Premiere works well in 64bit, but BMD is the only company to provide 64hardware support. Core2 Quad is 64bit comaptible. All things considered Core2 Quad seems like a good fit for you. The 5400 CPU is the last series Intel will release before a major change to integrated memory controllers etc. My current Xeon is the last one before the switch to Core2 architecture and multicores. That fact is very limiting, compared to the difference between 5300 and 5400. This time next year there should be some dramatic changes taking place. If a Core2Quad system meets your needs for a year and a half, you will be well served by that investment.

I finally bit the bullet today and bought an XW8400 workstation. Dual 2.66Ghz Xeons, 10k RPM 146GB SAS drive, free monitor and 3yr warranty, off the HP refurbished site for $2000. I ordered 4GB RAM and 2TB of storage for it for another $700 from NewEgg. I chose 500GB Samsung SATA drives, based on reccommendations earlier in this thread, but I have never used them before. I already have an 8800GTX to put in it. I am considering getting an AXIO LE card for it, but I am not sure. I use both Matrox AXIO and AJA/Cineform at work, and haven't decided which way to go. The new 4K hype has me leaning towards Cineform, to allow me to online people's movies on my own system. Eith way, I plan to get an 8bay eSATA array for up to 8TB of storage (before RAID5) if I start a large project.

It isn't the fastest system in the world, but for about $3000, it will do anything I need for at least a year, until Intel's next release. A good midrange workstation, that should be certified for Adobe, AJA, Matrox, BMD, and even AVID, depending on my needs in future projects.

Does it place any burden on the user? Am I going to be disadvantaged at all for having it?

I keep thinking that too, but if I was only going to get a quad core, I'd probably just sweat out my dual core for a while longer. Even though it dies every single day...

By this do you mean that even if I buy a board to accommodate the 5400 Xeons, I'll need a different board if I ever upgrade in the future?

Regarding HDDs, are the Samsungs recommended for any reason other than being quieter? I'm sure I read somewhere that the Seagates were no good in a RAID config.? Is that a fact? Because some places can't supply me Samsung and they're saying there's no issues with the Seagate and it's just as good.

Another question: Is this PSU acceptable for the Supermicro board - the X7DWA-N?

Antec TPQ-1000 - 1000W TruePower Quattro ATX & EPS 12V Power
Supply, Modular Cables, Four 12V Rails, 80Plus Certified, 2x8-pin
PCI-E, 2x6-pin PCI-E

The Supermicro site specifies certain requirements of the PSU (in terms of connections and things) which I just don't understand. Is this one ok?

Certain issues may crop up, but 95% of the problems are related to lack of drivers support for old hardware, which shouldn't be an issue for a new system.

Why? What dual core do you have?

Yes, 5 series of Xeons have been used in the LGA771 socket. The next revision is expected to change the architecture to the point that a new socket and chipset will be required.

I have Seagate's in a 14 drive RAID, they are fine. I wanted to see if the Samsung quiet claims were true in my own system. Either should be fine for you.

No idea, hopefully someone else will know.

Based on connectors provided, yes, the Antec TPQ-1000 should be fine. I can't see any other reason it wouldn't work except possibly for dimensions.

Really? I'm probably going to end up with the Coolermaster Cosmos like you did Travis, so is the bay for a PSU smaller than usual?

The dimensions on the Everest 1010 are 5.88"W X 3.38"H X 6.50"L. I BELIEVE that is the standard size for an ATX power supply. The width and height should be the same on any PSU. The depth is what can get you. I just popped the cover off the cosmos case. It looks like there's enough room that a power supply that was 2" deeper would still fit with no problems of crowding the wire connections.

Awesome! Thanks a lot! All I have to do now is wait for the components to come out over here...

I'm going to end up building pretty much an identical system to you Travis, even with the dual system drives. It never occurred to me though that I'll need to purchase two copies of Windows though, won't I? Or are you allowed to use the same copy on both system drives?

I guess there's no way that anything I do on the other O/S (the gaming/internet/whatever) can have any impact on the system?


EDIT: Regarding the Hot Swappable System Drive:

The dealer told me it would cause problems - saying that every time I booted up I would have to change something in the BIOS. Is this the case for you Travis?

So he's recommending a Dual Boot System, where I would have two system drives permenantly installed with XP Pro on one drive and Vista on the other. Apparently, as the computer boots up, it will ask me if I want to go to Vista or XP Pro. Is that how it works? And is it a good idea? I'm worried about having both system drives in there at the same time.

My current computer is so infected with problems that I assume are Internet related that I want to make sure my new one goes nowhere near the Internet. Is a Dual Boot system safe? Will it be keeping my editing system drive safe and isolated from the Internet (and from the other system drive) or would it still be vulnerable? And also, are there any drawbacks to having a Dual Boot system?

Physically swapping the boot drives will require no change in the BIOS, and will protect your editing drive from internet issues, if you unplug the internet when using that OS. The downside is that it is kind of cumbersome. I used to use the multiple OS partitions option, and it is easier and nicer, but eventually degenerates into problems if you make system changes. (You have been cheating the boot sector on the drives, and the changes aren't always well recieved) If you are planning to use multiple OSes, I will even more strongly recommend giving 64bit a try, especially XP. That way you have a32bit option to fall back on if something you need isn't 64bit compatible.

The dealer told me the exact opposite, but perhaps because I said my other system drive wouldn't be a 10,000 rpm 74GB Raptor, just another 500GB Samsung. Would having the two different types of system drives be the reason something in the BIOS might need changing?

If not, should I ask them to take this route over having two permanently installed drives? I don't know which is the better/safer option.

I'm not sure what kind of "system changes" I'd be making, if any. Can you give me some examples?

So you recommend having XP 64bit but Vista Business 32bit? So that Vista can be the fall-back option? If I buy XP 64bit and I have problems, can I install the 32bit equivalent from the same disc or do I need to go out and buy another version? If I take this route, is there anything else I need to check to ensure will work with 64bit XP?

System changes like going from XP64 to XP32 could mess up the "other" (Vista) install if you aren't VERY careful. The physical swapping is cleaner and easier, especially if you have a hotswap backplane. I had a system with the Supermicro case, with a Vista Beta install on one drive, and XP on the other. I disabled one of the bays, by removing the SATA cables, and stored which ever OS drive was unused in that bay.

Do you need Vista for any specific reason? You will someday, but currently many people are in the process or reverting to XP. I would recommend XP64 for editing, and XP32 for personal/internet/general use, based on what you have said.

I'd only need to do this if I had problems with the 64bit XP though right?

so why would the guy have told me that it was difficult and would require BIOS changes every time I swapped them? I was hoping to do what Travis did and buy one of those Hot Swappable bays for the front of the Coolermaster Case and swap the system drive that way. Can you confirm that if I do end up doing that (against the advice of the builder) that I'd still be getting the full speed of the RAPTOR and the full 3GB/s over SATAII? The extra step through the drive bay doesn't slow things down?

EDIT:

Just read this: The Vantec EZ-Swap MRK200-ST-BK only comes in black, and it supports the Serial ATA I standard although Serial ATA II drives will function just fine in it at reduced maximum peak thoughput.

Doesn't that mean that I'm paying heaps for a RAPTOR and then slowing it back down??

I don't need Vista by any means, but I can get it and Microsoft Office 2007 as a package for $33 because I'm a school teacher, which is too good to say no to really. But if it will be a bad idea then I'll just give it a miss.

So why then did the dealer/salesman/builder tell me that I'd need to alter the BIOS every time?

I've been reading about dual boot systems and it sounds like they can be a nightmare. It mentions how if you use XP and Vista or XP32 and XP64, the moment you boot with one of them it can change hardware settings that then cause conflicts with the other o/s. I wish computers were nicer to us... Is there likely to be conflicts caused by having 64bit and a 32bit XP systems?

It is not the 32vs64bit that causes the problem, having dual OSes causes problems when you make hardware changes even if they are both XP32. I reimage my systems every few months to keep them clean, and this is difficult and risky with dual boot.

Raptor 74GB is only SATA1 anyway, and it will never reach 150MB/s, let alone 300MB/s of SATAII. SATAII allows multiple drives to be connected via port multipliers. Currently that is the only way to utilize the bandwidth. 10k rpm is not for increased bandwidth, since a 1TB drive will win in that arena, but for lower laterncy and higher I/O counts. (Individual requests)

Using two different drive types is not ideal for the physical swap, using identical drives will be better for BIOS issues, although most systems will accept the change with no issues.

So if I used identical system drives and used the physical swap method, would that avoid some of the conflicts that the dual boot configuartion would present or would the issues be the same?

Once I've figured this part out I should be able to go ahead and finalize my order.

EDIT: I've also updated the GPUs. This one is only $50 more than the X1950 and seems to be much more powerful and certainly newer so I'd prefer it. Is it recommended? The reviews are positive but that's what I thought about my 8600, and then didn't find out about the full screen video issue until too late. Is there anything I need to know about this card:

Radeon HD3850 PCS Edition, 512MB GDDR3, PCI Express, Dual DVI, TV OUT

Identical drives should avoid most of the potential pitfalls.

The 3850 is brand new and untested, but somebody has to start, so you might as well go for it. The Graphics cards you are dealing with are relatively cheap, so the risk is low, compared to my 8800GTX and Quadro3400 cards. Having a spare card or two when you are trying to find pairs that work well together is usually a good idea.

Most? It makes me so nervous... I desperately want this system because my current one is so sluggish and useless - the last thing I want is to have weird conflicts.

If I had one system as XP32 and the other as XP64 that won't lead to trouble?

In all honesty, I can't foresee myself making any changes that might cause conflicts. Once this thing's built, I hope never to open the box nor change a setting... am I being naive?

I use "most" as computers are complex and there are no guarentees. I am also aware of thousands of caveats and disclaimers to the things I post, but I can't go into details on every one, so I try to avoid making strong generalizations that cause people to need to point out the obscure exceptions them.

Having a dual boot system will always have a higher chance of problems, because it is twice as complicated. On the other hand it is twice as likely that at least one side will be working properly at any given time. When I eventually upgrade the facility I work at from XP to Vista or XP64, I will use the physically swapping solution, leaving the older XP32 OS as a fallback for anytime we are having issues in a crunch. I will probably keep the dual option for a few months at least, on eight different systems. It means I will be using 8 more hard drives for the switch, but drives are cheap, compared to the price of the OS, and software.

That's what I think I'll do too - I just need to convince the guy building it that it's not going to cause BIOS problems. He talked me out of doing it and seemed determined not to let me go down that path. Strange...


Magic Bullet recommends a 7800 and if I remember correctly, Mike, you said thr 7800GT would be fine with Prospect HD & CS3 so maybe I'll just see if I can find another 7800GT on eBay and use that. I can't find them in stores anymore.

The only trouble with that is that I believe that if you update the drivers for the 7 series you get stuck with the same restirctions as the 8 series... Someone else might be able to confirm that for us though?

If I can find one would that be a good idea?

Any Geforce 7-series card fullfills both requirements, I recommend the 7950GT. The new drivers issue is possible, but the old drivers should work fine. The only other option is to get a Quadro 1700 for like $800 or higher.

You might want to verify that is still true of Magic bullet.

I trawled through hundreds of posts on Red Giant's support forums and dozens of people are reporting incompatability with ATI cards (and with Quadro cards too by the looks of things). The Magic Bullet FAQ page specifies only 3 ATI cards that it recommends and people are suggesting on the forums that they could in fact be the only three ATI cards that work!

These are the cards:

Nvidia 6600, 7800, 8800
ATI 9600, 1800, 1900
Note: there is no Intel card support

But some people have even reported trouble with the recommended ATI cards. The Nvidia ones seem to be less troublesome...

The 8800 is out of the question. I already have one 7800. There's two 7800s and a 7950 on eBay in Australia at the moment. I'd get the 7950 if it was on Magic Bullet's list but the compatability issues discussed on their forums make me frightened. Am I likely to have trouble with it or you don't think so?

There's also some quite cheap second hand nVidia Wuadro FX-3400 256MB which is pretty tempting... but I have no way of knowing if they'll work. I'd love to buy a pair of those...

Maybe I'll just pull the 7600 out of my even older heap of junk and try that...

I have a Quadro 3400, and it is okay, but not ideal. The 7600 you have will give you the best bang for the buck ;) if you at least give it a shot. As I said before, you could spend months researching and still be wrong, just buy one and try it. You will never know for sure until it is actually working in your system. VGA cards are too cheap to REALLY stress over unless you are buying one of the >$300 ones, which are not what you are currently pondering.

I'll see how I go with either a 7800 + a 7600 or dual 7800s.

If I go with these older cards, will they give me problems if I go with a 64bit operating system?

I can foresee two problems:
1. The drivers may be too old for 64bit.
2. Updating the drivers will make them the same as the 8 series cards and therefore I'll lose the full screen video overlay.

The thing is I do NOT want to be fiddling in the case this time round. I simply want to have it built and have it work. Every time I've added or swapped a component in my current machine it's like I've almost killed it and it never regained its full life.

It is extremely unlikely that you will get everything perfectly right on the first try. I usually anticipate a first run at installing everything, and seeing how those settings work out etc, usually making ghost images in the process at various points. Trying different drivers, especially for the graphics subsystem in your case. Once I have everything the way I want it, via an indirect route, the next time I rebuild the installation, I go directly to the config I want. (I know which driver versions I want, etc.)
Computers are not designed to be set up once and then work forever. That is why companies have IT departments. You should be rebuilding your OS install at least once a year for maximum performance and stability. That is how it "regains its full life." Ghost images make this much easier. I invest more time in this process than most people, since I beta test a lot of different software, which can screw your system up quickly, and you find yourself needing to revert back to a clean state much more frequently. (As often as once a month)