Videoguys Top 10 of 2003 at DVinfo.net

Gary Bettan · January 9th, 2004, 02:21 PM

Just posted my Top 10 new products of 2003 article

http://www.videoguys.com/2003best.htm

I think you'll find it interesting reading. At the end of the article I do a little crystal balling into some of the future technologies on the horizon.

Gary

Frank Granovski · January 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM

Wha---!? Vegas is only #10?

Imran Zaidi · January 9th, 2004, 06:30 PM

Yeah, when you take into account the innovative features Vegas provided for the price they did, and the fact that it was so well received that even Adobe got scared and hastened their video collections time of general availability, I'd have to say Vegas should be much higher than at least that fancy (and awkward) keyboard.

But hey, I could always make my own top 10... :)

David Mintzer · January 9th, 2004, 07:37 PM

Gary is a retailer--and thus must be very aware of those who supply him product--leave it at that.

Gary Bettan · January 9th, 2004, 07:47 PM

Vegas is a top 10 product no doubt about it. But Vegas +DVD at $499.95 would have finished higher in the rankings. At $699.95 it's still a top 10, but no longer a Top 5.

As I've posted here and in numerous other forums. I'm very hopeful that Sony's marketing will overcome the negative impact of the higher price. But only time will tell.

Gary
Videoguys.com

Emmet Lucey · January 10th, 2004, 01:10 AM

LE #2?

I am growing somewhat weary of these steroid-charged positive reviews of Liquid Edition. I have been training up on LE for six months now, have hundreds of hours in on the software and in the LE forums.

It's an unbelieveably powerful tool, well worth the money. It also has some very serious problems that none of these industry magazines / resellers are noting. Buyer beware.

In particular:

1) the hardware platform choice for LE is extremely important. It will not - repeat not - install and run well on just any system.

2) the DVD output of LE is riddeled with problems. Trot on over to the LE output forums and read the posts. Pinnacle claims these are a few disgruntled individuals. Look at the profiles & the numbers and your soon see otherwise. Count hw many users have abandoned the DVD authoring module alltogether in favor of Nero, Ulead, etc. Calculate the rato of Pinnacle replies to total posts.

Sobering stuff.

I will say again: LE is powerful & i will continue with it. But there is a serious gap between the marketing hype and the reality.

My challenge to the industry reviewers is this: bring some objectivity and constructive criticism into your product evaluations. This will benefit all of us. In the long run, it will benefit the producers by holding them accountable and forcing them to attend to their products and their existing customers instead of focusing eternally on the next hot program.

In the shadows of all the industry hype, the little guys are going unnoticed. Check out Media Chance, where they have developed a front end plug in that merges TMPG with DVD authoring ..... :-) ahhh, the capitalist fray ......

Rob Lohman · January 10th, 2004, 07:53 AM

So how good is that keyboard really? Looks a bit "flimsy". Also
I'm a bit angry that they don't have a color coded keyboard for
Vegas. I'd say Vegas as at least as "professional" as Premiere is
(although not as much used, true, but then again which industry
person is using Premiere?)

Gary Bettan · January 10th, 2004, 08:12 AM

Liquid Edition -

We are aware that there are issues with the Pro hardware. I do point this out in my RT5 NLE Comparison article. We are not running into issues with the software running on different machines. We do say constantly that any of these new NLEs require a fast ssytem w/ plenty of RAM.

The DVD Authoring with Editrion is working great for us. We are not trying to make complex multiple nested menu productions. For that you do need to go woth a full fledged authoring app. But for making a simple DVD with a couple of menus complete with motion backgrounds and buttons, Edition gets the job done.

EZ Keyboard Pro - the gang at bella has too face the realities of demand and marketsize vs initial start-up costs. When they go to color coded keys, they add tremendously to their initial costs. So far their market analysis does not support this investment for Vegas or Edition. A new keyboard player - WorldTech is geared towards smaller runs. They now offer Specailist keyboards for Vegas, Edition, Edius, MS Pro as well as Premeire Pro and Avid Xpress. http://www.videoguys.com/worldtech.html

Videoguys articles - Guys keep in mind that ours is a commercial website. Make no mistake about it - my goal is to get you to buy stuff (hopefully from us ;-) Use our reviews as just a portion of your research. Read Charlie Whites articles on DMN, check out magazines like Videomaker, DV and AV Video. And most importantly - use sites like dvinfo to get real worls feedback from actual users.

One last note about our reviews. While my reviews tend to be rosy, we stand behind everythting we sell with free tech support and a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. So I have real world consequences if my reviews don't hold up.

Gaary
Videoguys.com

Rob Lohman · January 10th, 2004, 08:15 AM

Those keyboard are looking nice. Don't have the jog in there,
which peeked my interest in the other. BUT, I'm currently thinking
about whether it would be more handy to have a seperate jog
device to use with my right hand that isn't integrated in the
keyboard... Choices choices.

Sharon Fraats · January 10th, 2004, 01:49 PM

Keyboard is nice and very good I might add. For a Mac this has got to be the best one ever made as I am typing on it now I would like to say that it's good key response. Also the jog wheel does work in FCP, QuickTime, and Premiere and as well in other smaller apps. As to working in FCP the setup is easy to learn as it is akin to Avid. There are short cuts up on top as to launch apps or even macros.

Go Bella

Glen Elliott · January 11th, 2004, 09:29 AM

Pinnacle liquid Edition #2.......give me a break.

Julian Luttrell · January 11th, 2004, 11:43 AM

Tee hee - I'm with you there Glenn. Buying market, leading to that sort of rating is exactly why Pinnacle is spending all those marketing dollars (as opposed to spending them on R&D where they belong).

Julian

Michael Plante · March 6th, 2004, 07:16 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Pinnacle liquid Edition #2.......give me a break. -->>>

Glenn and Julian have you ACTUALLY used Pinnacle liquid Edition?

Also what editing system do you think should be in 2nd place.

I am serious in asking this as I am just about to pull the trigger and invest in some NLE software.

Glenn Chan · March 6th, 2004, 07:55 PM

Michael, usually the best approach to deciding which NLE to buy is to figure out what your needs are, and then getting the product that is best for your needs. Three big factors are your computer, your budget, and the kinds of editing you want to do. Each NLE has its own strength and weakness so there is no best one. Vegas for example is very stable, very powerful, has the BEST audio capabilities of any NLE, and is kinda cheap (relatively speaking). Edition on the other hand gives you the most real-time and has background rendering, while Vegas is slow at rendering.

Mike Cavanaugh · March 6th, 2004, 09:34 PM

I just came from spending a day at the New York Showbiz Expo (which replaced last year's DV Expo) and Pinnacle was there big time. I certainly have to agree with Julian's comment:

<<...why Pinnacle is spending all those marketing dollars (as opposed to spending them on R&D where they belong).>>

Pinnacle hired a dozen or so very attractive "eye-candy" girls in matching Pinnacle outfits to walk around handing out brochures, gathering people for the demos etc. The were in the lobby, at the registration area and near the elevators on every floor the show was on - waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting customer. The sad thing is ...NOT ONE OF THE 6 OR SO I SPOKE WITH HAD THE FOGGIEST NOTION WHAT THE PRODUCT IS, DOES OR IS SUPPOSED TO DO!) (End of rant - Sorry)

I'm a Pinnacle user - We have Liquid Silver (the big $ package) at the office and I use LE at home. When it works properly, it is a great product. I happen to be having problems with LE right now and aside from the rep doing the demos and a couple of vendors who were very busy selling - there was no one who could answer my questions. Of course, the rep and the vendors don't want to spend time talking to someone about a problem when a potential customer is standing nearby because 1) I have already bought - they are not likely to sell me another copy 2) Time with me is time away from the paying customer and 3) If I'm describing a serious problem, the potential customer listening in might bolt out the door and go to another product.

Pinnacle's support is horrible - long waits on the phone and very poor on-line. Maybe a few $$ could be diverted from matching outfits and overstaffing shows with pretty girls (At one point, I was the only audience member for the demo, but 4 of the girls were standing around the booth)

They indeed are very focused on marketing, but short on other aspects of the business.

January 9th, 2004, 07:47 PM	#5
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 757	Vegas is a top 10 product no doubt about it. But Vegas +DVD at $499.95 would have finished higher in the rankings. At $699.95 it's still a top 10, but no longer a Top 5. As I've posted here and in numerous other forums. I'm very hopeful that Sony's marketing will overcome the negative impact of the higher price. But only time will tell. Gary Videoguys.com __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

January 10th, 2004, 07:53 AM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	So how good is that keyboard really? Looks a bit "flimsy". Also I'm a bit angry that they don't have a color coded keyboard for Vegas. I'd say Vegas as at least as "professional" as Premiere is (although not as much used, true, but then again which industry person is using Premiere?) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 10th, 2004, 08:12 AM	#8
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 757	Liquid Edition - We are aware that there are issues with the Pro hardware. I do point this out in my RT5 NLE Comparison article. We are not running into issues with the software running on different machines. We do say constantly that any of these new NLEs require a fast ssytem w/ plenty of RAM. The DVD Authoring with Editrion is working great for us. We are not trying to make complex multiple nested menu productions. For that you do need to go woth a full fledged authoring app. But for making a simple DVD with a couple of menus complete with motion backgrounds and buttons, Edition gets the job done. EZ Keyboard Pro - the gang at bella has too face the realities of demand and marketsize vs initial start-up costs. When they go to color coded keys, they add tremendously to their initial costs. So far their market analysis does not support this investment for Vegas or Edition. A new keyboard player - WorldTech is geared towards smaller runs. They now offer Specailist keyboards for Vegas, Edition, Edius, MS Pro as well as Premeire Pro and Avid Xpress. http://www.videoguys.com/worldtech.html Videoguys articles - Guys keep in mind that ours is a commercial website. Make no mistake about it - my goal is to get you to buy stuff (hopefully from us ;-) Use our reviews as just a portion of your research. Read Charlie Whites articles on DMN, check out magazines like Videomaker, DV and AV Video. And most importantly - use sites like dvinfo to get real worls feedback from actual users. One last note about our reviews. While my reviews tend to be rosy, we stand behind everythting we sell with free tech support and a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. So I have real world consequences if my reviews don't hold up. Gaary Videoguys.com __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

January 10th, 2004, 08:15 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Those keyboard are looking nice. Don't have the jog in there, which peeked my interest in the other. BUT, I'm currently thinking about whether it would be more handy to have a seperate jog device to use with my right hand that isn't integrated in the keyboard... Choices choices. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 6th, 2004, 09:34 PM	#15
Mike Cavanaugh Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Albany NY Posts: 311	re: Pinnacle LE I just came from spending a day at the New York Showbiz Expo (which replaced last year's DV Expo) and Pinnacle was there big time. I certainly have to agree with Julian's comment: <<...why Pinnacle is spending all those marketing dollars (as opposed to spending them on R&D where they belong).>> Pinnacle hired a dozen or so very attractive "eye-candy" girls in matching Pinnacle outfits to walk around handing out brochures, gathering people for the demos etc. The were in the lobby, at the registration area and near the elevators on every floor the show was on - waiting to pounce on the unsuspecting customer. The sad thing is ...NOT ONE OF THE 6 OR SO I SPOKE WITH HAD THE FOGGIEST NOTION WHAT THE PRODUCT IS, DOES OR IS SUPPOSED TO DO!) (End of rant - Sorry) I'm a Pinnacle user - We have Liquid Silver (the big $ package) at the office and I use LE at home. When it works properly, it is a great product. I happen to be having problems with LE right now and aside from the rep doing the demos and a couple of vendors who were very busy selling - there was no one who could answer my questions. Of course, the rep and the vendors don't want to spend time talking to someone about a problem when a potential customer is standing nearby because 1) I have already bought - they are not likely to sell me another copy 2) Time with me is time away from the paying customer and 3) If I'm describing a serious problem, the potential customer listening in might bolt out the door and go to another product. Pinnacle's support is horrible - long waits on the phone and very poor on-line. Maybe a few $$ could be diverted from matching outfits and overstaffing shows with pretty girls (At one point, I was the only audience member for the demo, but 4 of the girls were standing around the booth) They indeed are very focused on marketing, but short on other aspects of the business.

January 9th, 2004, 02:21 PM	#1
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 757	Videoguys Top 10 of 2003 Just posted my Top 10 new products of 2003 article http://www.videoguys.com/2003best.htm I think you'll find it interesting reading. At the end of the article I do a little crystal balling into some of the future technologies on the horizon. Gary __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

January 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Wha---!? Vegas is only #10?

January 9th, 2004, 06:30 PM	#3
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Yeah, when you take into account the innovative features Vegas provided for the price they did, and the fact that it was so well received that even Adobe got scared and hastened their video collections time of general availability, I'd have to say Vegas should be much higher than at least that fancy (and awkward) keyboard. But hey, I could always make my own top 10... :)

January 9th, 2004, 07:37 PM	#4
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Gary is a retailer--and thus must be very aware of those who supply him product--leave it at that.

January 10th, 2004, 01:10 AM	#6
Emmet Lucey Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: lillehammer norway Posts: 67	LE #2? I am growing somewhat weary of these steroid-charged positive reviews of Liquid Edition. I have been training up on LE for six months now, have hundreds of hours in on the software and in the LE forums. It's an unbelieveably powerful tool, well worth the money. It also has some very serious problems that none of these industry magazines / resellers are noting. Buyer beware. In particular: 1) the hardware platform choice for LE is extremely important. It will not - repeat not - install and run well on just any system. 2) the DVD output of LE is riddeled with problems. Trot on over to the LE output forums and read the posts. Pinnacle claims these are a few disgruntled individuals. Look at the profiles & the numbers and your soon see otherwise. Count hw many users have abandoned the DVD authoring module alltogether in favor of Nero, Ulead, etc. Calculate the rato of Pinnacle replies to total posts. Sobering stuff. I will say again: LE is powerful & i will continue with it. But there is a serious gap between the marketing hype and the reality. My challenge to the industry reviewers is this: bring some objectivity and constructive criticism into your product evaluations. This will benefit all of us. In the long run, it will benefit the producers by holding them accountable and forcing them to attend to their products and their existing customers instead of focusing eternally on the next hot program. In the shadows of all the industry hype, the little guys are going unnoticed. Check out Media Chance, where they have developed a front end plug in that merges TMPG with DVD authoring ..... :-) ahhh, the capitalist fray ......

January 10th, 2004, 01:49 PM	#10
Sharon Fraats Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: chicago, ill Posts: 190	Keyboard is nice and very good I might add. For a Mac this has got to be the best one ever made as I am typing on it now I would like to say that it's good key response. Also the jog wheel does work in FCP, QuickTime, and Premiere and as well in other smaller apps. As to working in FCP the setup is easy to learn as it is akin to Avid. There are short cuts up on top as to launch apps or even macros. Go Bella

January 11th, 2004, 09:29 AM	#11
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Pinnacle liquid Edition #2.......give me a break.

January 11th, 2004, 11:43 AM	#12
Julian Luttrell Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 164	Tee hee - I'm with you there Glenn. Buying market, leading to that sort of rating is exactly why Pinnacle is spending all those marketing dollars (as opposed to spending them on R&D where they belong). Julian

March 6th, 2004, 07:16 PM	#13
Michael Plante New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orlando FL Posts: 14	<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Pinnacle liquid Edition #2.......give me a break. -->>> Glenn and Julian have you ACTUALLY used Pinnacle liquid Edition? Also what editing system do you think should be in 2nd place. I am serious in asking this as I am just about to pull the trigger and invest in some NLE software.

March 6th, 2004, 07:55 PM	#14
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Michael, usually the best approach to deciding which NLE to buy is to figure out what your needs are, and then getting the product that is best for your needs. Three big factors are your computer, your budget, and the kinds of editing you want to do. Each NLE has its own strength and weakness so there is no best one. Vegas for example is very stable, very powerful, has the BEST audio capabilities of any NLE, and is kinda cheap (relatively speaking). Edition on the other hand gives you the most real-time and has background rendering, while Vegas is slow at rendering.