Audio clone problems at DVinfo.net

Jim Sofranko · April 1st, 2004, 03:39 PM

I'm new to this forum so please forgive me if this has been previously discussed. I am having a constant audio problem when making digital clones of my original DV material shot on a Canon XL1.

My friend tried making the dubs using a Sony DHR1000 as the player to a DSR11 as the recorder and also tried using the Sony DSR11 as the player to a TVR9 as the recorder. All the dubs were attempted using firewire cable from one machine to the other.

The problem we constantly encounter is an audio glitch about every 3 seconds. It sounds like an abrupt cutout. Any ideas what causes this and how to solve it would be greatly appreciated. Thankls in advance.

Ed Smith · April 1st, 2004, 03:51 PM

Hi Jim,

Could it be that you have not set set the audio bit rate correct on the machines. Make sure that they are the same throughout i.e. 16bit 12bit etc. Having one machine set wrong from the other might cause this problem. Also check to see that your audio frequencys are all the same though out the dubbing process i.e. 48000KHz, 32000KHz, 41000KHZ depending on what the original was recorded with?

You can normally find the bit rate of the original in the datacode.

What I would do is set your decks side by side and go through the menus one at a time comparing the setup, that way you can make sure that there is nothing wrong in your settings.

Have you tried cloning from your XL1 to any of the sony decks/cameras, and visa versa?

Thanks,

Ed

Jim Sofranko · April 1st, 2004, 04:02 PM

Haven't tried from the Canon directly.

I have successfully made dubs using the same process with the original masters from a Panasonic camera with no problems.

I'll check into the bit and sampling rate compatibility. Thanks.

Edward Troxel · April 1st, 2004, 04:22 PM

"Play" from the XL-1. I'd bet the XL-1 heads are slightly out of alignment. When our XL-1 heads started going out, the audio was the first place it showed up (when playing from a Panasonic deck).

After the tapes are dubbed, send the camera back to Cannon for a checkup.

David Hurdon · April 2nd, 2004, 07:02 AM

I mention this not because I know anything about it but because I recently read of audio problems with the XL1s caused by its recording (and playing back, I think) at 29.96 fps versus NTSC 29.97. Obviously many owners don't have a problem so the impact isn't clear to me, but it might be something to search on.

David Hurdon

Edward Troxel · April 2nd, 2004, 08:53 AM

Never had an issue with my XL-1 cameras unless the head starts going out of alignment. That causes sound dropouts.

In the case of the audio sampling at slightly the wrong speed, the problem would be represented by audio that goes out of sync, not dropouts. Since switching to Vegas, this also has NOT been a problem (it WAS in Cinestream).

Jim Sofranko · April 2nd, 2004, 10:34 AM

I will try to dub directly from the Canon today.

A curious question... wouldn't the problem of misaligned heads become obvious if I simply playback the original tape on another deck?

It only seems to manifest itself when dubbing on different decks.

Ignacio Rodriguez · April 2nd, 2004, 10:54 AM

If your camera is doing a non-standard sampling rate and or tape speed or head tracking... you can rescue the tape by making an analog dub from the cam. Especially important if you will send the cam out for service. Something you might have to do if the problems persists.

April 1st, 2004, 03:39 PM	#1
Jim Sofranko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Shokan, NY Posts: 217	Audio clone problems I'm new to this forum so please forgive me if this has been previously discussed. I am having a constant audio problem when making digital clones of my original DV material shot on a Canon XL1. My friend tried making the dubs using a Sony DHR1000 as the player to a DSR11 as the recorder and also tried using the Sony DSR11 as the player to a TVR9 as the recorder. All the dubs were attempted using firewire cable from one machine to the other. The problem we constantly encounter is an audio glitch about every 3 seconds. It sounds like an abrupt cutout. Any ideas what causes this and how to solve it would be greatly appreciated. Thankls in advance.

April 1st, 2004, 03:51 PM	#2
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	Hi Jim, Could it be that you have not set set the audio bit rate correct on the machines. Make sure that they are the same throughout i.e. 16bit 12bit etc. Having one machine set wrong from the other might cause this problem. Also check to see that your audio frequencys are all the same though out the dubbing process i.e. 48000KHz, 32000KHz, 41000KHZ depending on what the original was recorded with? You can normally find the bit rate of the original in the datacode. What I would do is set your decks side by side and go through the menus one at a time comparing the setup, that way you can make sure that there is nothing wrong in your settings. Have you tried cloning from your XL1 to any of the sony decks/cameras, and visa versa? Thanks, Ed __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

April 2nd, 2004, 07:02 AM	#5
David Hurdon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 484	I mention this not because I know anything about it but because I recently read of audio problems with the XL1s caused by its recording (and playing back, I think) at 29.96 fps versus NTSC 29.97. Obviously many owners don't have a problem so the impact isn't clear to me, but it might be something to search on. David Hurdon __________________ Site:http://www.faceliftmarketing.ca Blog:http://www.websitevideo.blogspot.com

April 2nd, 2004, 10:54 AM	#8
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	If your camera is doing a non-standard sampling rate and or tape speed or head tracking... you can rescue the tape by making an analog dub from the cam. Especially important if you will send the cam out for service. Something you might have to do if the problems persists. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

April 1st, 2004, 04:02 PM	#3
Jim Sofranko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Shokan, NY Posts: 217	Haven't tried from the Canon directly. I have successfully made dubs using the same process with the original masters from a Panasonic camera with no problems. I'll check into the bit and sampling rate compatibility. Thanks.

April 1st, 2004, 04:22 PM	#4
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	"Play" from the XL-1. I'd bet the XL-1 heads are slightly out of alignment. When our XL-1 heads started going out, the audio was the first place it showed up (when playing from a Panasonic deck). After the tapes are dubbed, send the camera back to Cannon for a checkup.

April 2nd, 2004, 08:53 AM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Never had an issue with my XL-1 cameras unless the head starts going out of alignment. That causes sound dropouts. In the case of the audio sampling at slightly the wrong speed, the problem would be represented by audio that goes out of sync, not dropouts. Since switching to Vegas, this also has NOT been a problem (it WAS in Cinestream).

April 2nd, 2004, 10:34 AM	#7
Jim Sofranko Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Shokan, NY Posts: 217	I will try to dub directly from the Canon today. A curious question... wouldn't the problem of misaligned heads become obvious if I simply playback the original tape on another deck? It only seems to manifest itself when dubbing on different decks.