Need Buying Advice
 

Hello all. Just found and joined this little group and have found more info in a week than I could have imagined. What brought me here is that I'm looking at starting a business involving youth sports - basically video taping services to a host of people. What I'm asking for is not whether or not it's a viable business. What I'd like is your advice on equipment. Basically I'm looking at all sports, soccer, basketball, football, volleyball, swimming, you get the idea. Here's what I'm thinking of in terms of equipment and what I'd very much appreciate is your advice on all of it, do I need it, should I opt for something else, etc.

What I'm thinking of is the following -

Camera - Canon XL H1
Jib - Jonyjib Jr. 15 ft. (soccer for instance will be from the sidelines and I need to get above the crowd in order to be able to see the play develop).
A new editing platform - was thinking MAC but wonder what the experts here think. MAC or Windows. I've got experience in iMovie and Vegas. Any special cards I should be thinking about?
Some sort of tapeless capture device (just discovered this so need to look into it more and welcome suggestions).

The budget available is roughly $60,000 so I want to make sure I start of right and with two rigs.

We've recently bought an HV20 and I've been messing around with that but want something for the business that will be able to handle the growth and expansion if this works. It's all in the planning stages at this point.

As I said I'm really new to all of this and would really appreciate any advice either way on any of what I'm thinking and things I'm missing.

Thanks in advance.

Henry

For sports you might want to consider the JVC HD200U or HD250U, and shooting 60p.

Robert,

Thanks for the reply.

So why the JVC over the Cannon? Just getting into this I'm looking for all the info I can get.

Thanks in advance.

Because of the 60 progressive frames per second instead of 30 interlaced. Much sharper image with fast moving objects.

#1 I'd definitely go with one of the Sony HDV camcorders. The JVC is wonderful, but more for Doc's or indie movies. The Sony is less expensive, a proven workhorse, and has much better low light capability. It's perfect for what you want to do. So unless you intend to show the final product on 35mm...Go with a Sony.

#2 Mac or PC is a toss up. Honestly for what you are doing, you be all right either way. MAC machines are awesome... I've never had one break down on me yet. Problem with MAC is that there's a ton if software for the PC. If you go the PC route you'll save a ton of money. I know people are AVID junkies, but, for what you are doing I'd go with VEGAS. It's got the lowest learning curve and has awesome effects built right into the program.

Which ever route you take GOOD LUCK!

Shooting 60p lets you capture very crisp, fluid motion. You wouldn't shoot 60p to transfer to film (you would shoot 24p for that).

This just occurred to me. With your budget, a couple Sony PMW-EX1s could work VERY well for you. The PMW-EX1s can shoot 720/60p (at 35mbps even), and the quality should be simply stunning.

Maybe I wasn't very clear. I know 60p wouldn't be used for film. The point I am trying to make is that the Sony would be a better camera for his needs. The JVC is an awesome camera for shooting to transfer to film IMHO.

I just can't think of a reason that Sony HDV cameras would work better for shooting sports.

Most sports involve considerable motion, and 60p is far more ideal for capturing that, than 60i, 30p or 24p.

Most organized sporting events are reasonably well lit, so I doubt that a bit better low light performance from some of the Sony HDV cameras (not all of them perform well in low light) would really make a big difference, compared to the JVCs. Certainly none of the Sony (or any other brand) HDV cameras would hold a candle to a PMW-EX1, in low light.

He's talking about a 60k budget for equipment, so the HD200U, HD250U (not the HD110U) or even PMW-EX1, would seem reasonable, cost-wise.

aloha
xl-h1 with a flash recorder (if they ever get released http://convergent-design.com/) would work well for long events. 4:2:2 with DV back up. might have some sound issues to work around. don't know if there is a preset for an EX-1 look yet.

EX-1 with a lap top to dump media on. extra cards, 4:2, good low light, 60p. ackward to hand hold but ok for your jib.

if you have two rigs do both options and find what suits you best, you lucky dog.

tito

Robert, I love the JVC. It's just that the Sony can go places that I wouldn't dare take my JVC. For me it's much easier for run & gun. For cool X game type shots. Having dirt bikes jump over you, etc. I'm not arguing your advice at all. Just for my personal preference the sony is the ultimate road warrior.
If I had a controlled atmosphere the JVC all the way.
I'm trying to think of a good example... To me it's like you have a Hummer(JVC) and a Toyota(Sony). Now a hummer is a $60,000 car with every bell and whislte. Proven to be roadworthy under unbelievable conditions. But if I was going off roading with my friends. The hummer would be waxed and shiny in my garage as I thrashed my little 1990, $3000 used Toyota.
Now remember I am VERY budget conscious.

Thanks all. I appreciate the info and I think I understand the differences and the points you're all making. If this helps the camera will be in somewhat of a controlled environment as in a soccer game. Up on the jib panning left, right, up, and down. The only issue on occasion will be wind and rain on the very rare occasion. I also get the 60p argument. I tried filming a scrimmage with my Canon HV20 on 24 and it was almost unwatchable. Very jittery.

Now I may have nightmares about $10k cameras being hit by lightening.

:)

OK, so we're getting ready to pull the trigger on this thing and have been doing the research all this time, and not just on the cameras. Anyway, after continued digging I have to ask a question of those of you who are the proponents of the Sony. With all the issues with this camera - the back focus, the vignetting, some of the issues with AWB and colors, expecially black, not coming out as they should, would you still recommened dumping $7000 into something that obviously has some serious issues. I know not all the cameras come out with problems but ....I'm sure you see where I'm going with this. Once this is off the ground having to send cameras in for repair isn't really realistic, especially knowing of the issues up front.

Then again, maybe I'm over thinking this whole thing but thanks for the help in advance

Henry,

You're overdoing your research. I don't blame you for it, I'm sort of the same, a lot of reading/researching before writing the check, and that's basically the best practice.

You know, it's like with cars, no matter what you buy, you will, at some point, think: I should have gotten that other one... All cameras have strong points and weaknesses.

With your budget I would quit looking in the prosumer area and move up to real professional, ENG cameras. I would spend about 60-70% of that budget on two cameras - aquisition is your first and most important step. You can refine your workflow later, but it's hard to replace cameras once you spent a few tens of thousands on them...

In my opinion...

So what camera would you recommend? Something like the JVC 250?

Thanks again,

Henry

Hi Henry.............
 

If I may throw my 2 cents in here...........?

JIb? - when did you ever see anyone trying to shoot sports from a jib?

Forget it (IMHO). Go for a tower system or a truck top if you have to go up, with a suitable pedestal mount system to go with it (believe me, a tripod doing fast pans gets pretty tiresome the 27th time you've collected one of those legs).

Canon H1?

The H1 will have to be upgraded any time soon (it's getting pretty long in the tooth) and do you really need interchangeable lenses? A wide angle isn't exactly going to be much required for shooting sports.

Transfer to film?

Er, your doing video of sport, not shooting a remake of "Gone with the Wind".

60P?

Just where, exactly, are you going to be showing 60P? I know of no delivery system for 60P (doesn't mean there ain't one, just that I've never heard of it - ergo, who else will have it available?).

You've made no mention (that I can see) of where, exactly, this footage is to be shown and under what circumstances. You cannot make a camera decision untill you know the resultant video's final delivery system/ destination.

There is no mention of sound gear - Big/ Little Ears, mics, wireless systems, mixers etc etc. This stuff adds up real fast and will take a HUGE (third?) chunk out of that budget.

Apart from the jib, there is no mention of camera support systems. Going "Gold" on these (which you cannot afford NOT to do) will take another third out of your budget.

I cannot give you any pointers as there is too much missing information for me to do so, but I think you may have gone about this the wrong way - start at the end of the line and work back.

That will tell you what you NEED to get where you want to go.

All in my humble opinion, of course.


CS

720p60 is a valid Blu-Ray format and HDTV broadcast format. Hopefully we will have reasonable options to deliver content that can be played on Blu-Ray players soon. If I was going to shoot sports exclusively, with high definition cameras, I would ideally want to shoot 60p, even if down converting for delivery in the short term (next couple years).

The EX1 could sure produce stunning sports footage, but you really need to look at who your target audience is, to make a decision between cameras like the EX1 and HD200U (or the HD250U, but only if you need SDI). Possibly Panasonic's HVX200 or HPX500 might make sense, depending on the specifics of what you plan to do.

Chris makes a good point, that we really don't have enough detail to be making specific recommendations. Up to this point, we've basically talked about what would be ideal for shooting sports, not what makes the most sense for your particular business and exactly what you intend to do (because we don't know).

Who will be your primary audience/customers? What/how will you be delivering to them?

The target will be mainly parents and coaches to start, although there will be other apps as this gets going. Again, not wanting to go into whether or not people believe the business will work, the delivery will be via DVD to parents and coaches mostly.

Chris, I have seen guys shoot soccer in particular from a jib. When you are on the sideline directly behind parents or coaches with only 10-12 feet of space between one field and the next you need to get above them in order to shoot. Plus being 10-15 feet up in the air has the advantage of being able to see play develop so that's the thought process behind that. It gives you an advantage, I believe, when you don't have stands or a hill you can get up on to be able to shoot from a height advantage. I'm always open to other suggestions but the need here is to be up at least 10 feet. The only movement will be the camera on a motorized head. I don't see the arm moving around that much. For other apps, as we go forward though, that will probably change and the jib offers flexibility.

The sound isn't that big an issue. I will probably upgrade the camera mic but I think that's all that's needed. It's more about the visual presentation.

Having shot a couple of games on my HV20 in SD and HD, even with the conversion and burning to DVD, the stuff in HD still looks better even though it's not an HD disc. Again, it's about the visual presentation.

With the HD format war over and Blu-Ray starting to make even more in roads I'm trying to think ahead because at some point, sooner rather than later, I think, we're going to be able to start burning HD discs at a reasonable rate and I want to be forward thinking and not be totally behind the curve two years down the road.

And not transfering anything to film. I think that was just a point of discussion.

Again, having been a consumer the pro stuff is all new to me so I'm open to any suggestions or comments anyone is willing to offer. Just trying to do the research and best I can in order to make good, sound decisions.

Thanks again.

Henry

Alright here is the problem with the jib. You want to use it as your main camera. Panning and following the action on a robotic head is not goning be no were near as smooth an operator on a tripod. So may some cheap scafolding or some kind of platform?

How many cameras do you want?

Are you gona live switch or edit.

I would probably do the HPX 500's with a firestore recorder.

Then maybe the jib for the second camera.

Sound: Make it simple. Wireless Lav on coach, Two long shotguns on the corners of the field. Run all the audio into one camera.(The HPX has 4 channels of audio)

Maybe an ideal setup would be one HPX or JVC(could be an HD100) on some kind off platform in a studio configuration. Another camera on the ground with a tripod.

With either the JVC or HPX I would get firestores they would make life really easy.

May the third camera on the jib, but if you get three cameras the HPX's might be too expensive.

How about live switching Have you ever considered that. that's a whole nother ball game.

If you want quality maybe try for the HPX 500's

The only thing though is that The HPX and Hd 200,100 series are big, complicated, pro cameras.

Are they difficult to opperate yes.
Are they hard to setup, yes.
Can you get better looking shots, faster, yes.

There is a lot to learn with pro cameras, manual Focus, formattts, color setup, and so on.

Andrew,

It's just going to be a one camera shoot. Not a lot of mixing involved at all. From a soccer perspective you're not zooming in too close because you're just concerned with following the overall action and not focusing in on one player. Think of that wide shot of a basketball game from the camera at half court or the wide football shot from the sideline covering the basic play. I understand the football camera moves but trust me, parents and coaches, for the most part, don't care. They just want the game and to be able to see the plays develop. The remote pan and zoom will be fine.

I understand that even the prosumer cameras can have a huge learning curve but, again, it's about the video presentation and ability to do HD DVD's (Blu-Ray) in the future for those who want it. Do I really have a choice? I figure since I figured out Pro-Tools with a little help I'll be able to handle a pro camera in time.

Thanks,

Henry

I would be inclined to lean towards HD200Us (w/stock 16x lens) for cameras. The quality should be excellent (assuming good shooting) for delivering to an audience like parents and coaches, on DVD (while still yielding very nice footage for potential future use). Cameras like the EX1, HPX500, etc., seem a bit like overkill for the intended purpose, and would be more costly to operate. Shooting to something like a Firestore, while simultaneously shooting tape, would make for quick ingestion for editing (no need to capture from tapes, unless there is a failure with a Firestore - can happen on occasion), and the tapes serve as a nice backup and for archival purposes. That avoids the cost of expensive flash memory cards (SxS or P2), and also avoids the need for a complicated/time consuming/expensive system for archiving raw footage.

With a little ingenuity, I would think a small, older minivan could be modified to serve nicely as a mobile platform, to shoot from above the onlookers (as well as being useful for hauling the gear).

Hi again.......
 

I have to assume that you have test marketed this concept somewhere/ somehow/ to someone and have, indeed, found a ready market.

The problem I'm having with it is pretty simple (and I'm quite prepared to be told "You just don't understand" if indeed, that is the case).

I don't watch a lot of sport, either transmitted or off DVD. However, when I do, the thing that leaps out of the screen is the following:

Production values

- there's usually anything up to a dozen cameras (or more) with experienced operators dotted around the ground and an exceedingly good Producer somewhere making sure the best of the bunch makes it to air. They also have spotters whose sole job is to keep the producer aware of "good stuff" developing which may not have been spotted by a camera op.

The cameras are on extremely sophisticated support systems giving pinpoint accuracy with silky smooth movement - they can follow every minute change in direction and speed in microseconds with nary a jerk/ jump or other nasties. If anything, their zooming is even smoother than their panning.

- there's always at least one, more usually two announcers/ narrators, knowledgeable about both the game/ event/ partcipants to keep a running commentary going to cover the "dead spots" and link it all together.

- shut your eyes and just listen to the sound. They have mics EVERYWHERE, covering everything, superbly mixed and balanced giving a wall of sound in 3D. They've got Big/ Little Ears to cover every sound on the pitch and skilled ops linked on two ways to make sure a mic is on that important collision coming.....NOW!

There's heaps more, but in short, that's what this Joe Public experiences whenever I watch televised sport.

My problem with your endeavour, and my point, is that the above scenario is what every other Joe Public experiences when they watch televised sport, and these Joe Publics are your possible future customers.

Now, I realise there must be some sales value in having one's own ugly mug on the telly, but is it really enough to overcome the lack of the above listed production values? Enough to get punters coming back for more, week after week, and plonking down cold hard cash?

OK, so, back to specifics.

The Jib. I've got one. Full underslung pan/ tilt head. The works. From my experience, you're making a rod for your own back.They're slow, ungainly and unless the P/T system costs an absolute kings ransom, jerky and slow. Unless you have twin cams mounted on the end, one wide and one for target, you can't see what is visible from the top of it. In order to satisfy your insurance company (public liability, right?) you will need to rope off an area bigger than the full possible 360 degree swing of the entire unit - that's a big chunk of real estate.

Can you make it work? Maybe, in time, with enough money and practice. I'd borrow one and have a serious play before jumping into that pot of boiling oil.

You would be far better off with a versatower/ ob truck or somesuch.

I do not agree with your "sound isn't that big an issue".

It's a huge issue.

It contributes at least 50% of the experience (you can argue the exact figure till Hell freezes over, it's still a huge figure unless you're into Charle Chaplin movies).

I think that treating it in such an offhand fashion is going to cost you sales (unless this is some sort of charity thing?).

Bottom line, Henry, I just cannot see the "sales value" in the product as descrbed to date.


CS

I really see the Ideal setup Being One camera on a van(or scaffold) to get that Half of the field shot, And then at least one other camera ground level ( on tripod) get close ups. Take the two firestores home to edit. Add some graffics, tittles, and burn to blue-ray.

For sound you should be able just place some shotguns on the field and maybe a wireless or two on key people(coaches). The run all tha cables into your cameras and your all set.

Hpx Overkill? maybe
$60,000 overkill, yes so get the Hpx's

Thanks all for your input.

Chris, I'm probably not making myself clear in my explanation of what I'm aiming to do. Being the rookie here I would bet that's the case. In any event we could go back and forth for days about what I think would work and why and what you think would (or won't) and why and that's something I don't want to get into. To your point of the research on the saleability of what I have in mind I've had a number of sales and marketing people look into it and it seems viable so let's just leave it at that. I do appreciate your input and will take away a number of things that will improve on my initial thoughts so thanks.

And that goes to everyone else who offered up advice - Thanks so much.

I think I've got things narrowed down, camera wise, and will continue to research the camera mounting options (the insurance thing was huge - the thought crossed my mind at one point and haven't really thought about it much since so thanks) and try to ensure that it's the best thing for what I have in mind. I know the learning curve is huge but I think it'll be worth it in the end so again, thanks. I'm sure I'll be back with questions on an number of other issues.

Henry

Shotguns make sense. I think I would want to have good shotguns mounted on the cameras (at least somewhat tracking the action, with a very narrow pickup pattern), along with perhaps a couple stationary mics (with a little wider pickup pattern) aimed at the field also (wireless, so you don't have parents tripping all over long cables, slamming mics to the ground on a regular basis - keep the insurance costs under control too!). I don't know how practical getting microphones actually on the field or coaches would be (could get some great sound bites at times, but would require cooperative participants/coaches/officials - and wireless lavs might walk away, never to return, on occasion). Micing a parent might get a few choice sound bites (and lose a few more wireless lavs). If/when there is an announcer, that should be recorded.

I just can't see putting a camera on a jib for this. I don't see the advantage over a good-ole DIY minivan mobile platform (3/4" green treated plywood bolted down to an old van roof might not be real impressive looking, but sounds a whole lot better to shoot from, to me - could even run a 15' firewire, from the camera, to an inexpensive computer in the van for recording to a big hard drive, instead of using a PITA over-priced Firestore with an itty-bitty hard drive). It's certainly no easier to shoot by remote control, than on a solid platform with a high quality fluid-head tripod setup (secured to the platform), and a jib sure would seem like a great way to invite all kinds of unnecessary risks and problems (excellent lightening rod though).

Studying how sports are covered, on television broadcasts, is certainly a very good idea, but it sure wouldn't be practical to have a dozen cameras and even more microphones all over a high school soccer field, along with a couple announcers, a producer, and a host of production assistants (not to mention, a semi filled with broadcast gear) for this type of small scale production (now that's overkill!). This is a lot more like shooting a wedding, or similar event, where the primary audience is pretty much limited to family, friends, participants, coaches, etc. Shooting with cameras like an HPX500 wouldn't really seem cost effective. The revenues from each shoot are going to be fairly limited. Some of the bigger camera's distinct advantages (like better performance in dim lighting - not really much practical advantage when shooting outside in daylight or in a well lit gym) often would not be all that apparent in the delivered product, but the additional cost (an HPX500 w/any lens costs more than 3X as much as an HD200U w/stock lens) would impact the bottom line. Just because more investment capitol is available, doesn't mean it is a great idea to spend it all.

Henry....................
 

Good luck.

I mean that sincerely.

Please do not take my comments in a negative sense, they were meant in as positive a way as I could muster.

I do hope it all works out well.

Get back to us if you need anything else (just don't think it'll be an easy ride!).

CS

Here's my specific camera suggestions (based on what you have told us thus far):

For shooting HD (@720p60): JVC GY-HD200U
60p is arguably ideally suited for shooting sports and the HD200U is a solid camera (yet reasonably priced) for that (especially for venues with ample lighting).

For shooting HD (@1080i60): Canon XH-A1
This is certainly a viable option, especially for delivering on DVD (and delivering 1080i60 on Blu-Ray, at some point in the future, would be quite reasonable). I don't really see any advantage to you, in going with the much more expensive XL-H1, especially to mount on a jib or tripod.

Another option, worthy of serious consideration, would be to shoot with standard definition cameras until you would actually be delivering on Blu-Ray. Camera cost could potentially be cut in half, while still achieving excellent results on DVD. Learning to operate cameras and editing would likely be somewhat easier also, and have you producing a marketable product a bit sooner as well. By the time Blu-Ray is indeed a viable delivery medium, camera choices should have improved considerably too (perhaps good AVCHD alternatives, for example). Only a very minuscule portion of the population currently even owns a Blu-Ray player at all, and there are serious issues with creating compatible disks on a small scale.

What about hiring a pro?
 

I followed your thoughts, and think there may be another approach. Why not find someone with experience in this field, and follow his/her lead? See what they do, how they do it, what equipment works and what doesn't and why?

If you pay them $1,000 for the day, consider it well spent. You'll learn about which cameras work best, what editing suite and platform is most appropriate, how best to author DVDs and the equipment needed, etc.

You may even find such a person on this site, but there are other dedicated sites that may target directors/producers more directly.

Also, try your local cable TV access station. I've become a certified producer, allowing me to create and broadcast video content on cable TV.

Better yet, I had professional training on Apple Final Cut pro, became certified in production field camera use, learned how to convert my output to DVD or streaming media on the web, and lots more. The total cost for all of this training and access to video cameras that I can borrow, various pro grade microphones (sound does matter), editing suites (FCP), etc. has been very modest.

I also came in contact with lots of other producers, learned a lot about what worked and what didn't and found the experience I gained well worth the time.

My point is that before committing lots of money, one form or research that may be very useful is paying for professional expertise by someone who is doing what you want to do.

Best of luck.

Another option, to get a little practical experience with a camera that might work well for you, would be to rent a camera for a few days. Personally, I would opt to buy one instead (possibly used), try it out for a month, and then sell it if you decide it is not suitable for your purposes. With something like an HD200U, the cost to "rent" the camera that way would be pretty minimal. The problem with renting for a period of time that is actually long enough to get to know the camera, is you wind up basically paying out the cost to buy it outright anyway (or maybe more).

Chris,

No offense taken. I appreciate your thoughts and have taken your posts, along with all the others as a genuine effort to help so no worries.

Len, good idea. I may do that. Learning from someone who's experienced will no doubt cut the learning curve down a bit. Problem is I don't know of anyone else in this area doing what I'm proposing to do, hence the idea to start this up. Kind of a catch 22.

The JVC 200 does look like the way to go for now.

The jib argument - here's why the scaffold/van idea doesn't work. I'll use soccer as the example as I have three kids who play. And I don't mean to insult anyone intelligence here.

First off, you're not going to be able to set up a scaffold or drive a van onto the field. In most cases you've got a complex where there are anywhere from 4 to 12 fields anywhere from 50 to 200 yards away from the parking lot. Access like that is just not allowed. There's no complex where they are going to let you drive a van on to or around the field area. None.

Then take something like a tournament setting. If you're shooting 3-5 games per camera a day you may have only 15-30 min between games. There's no time to set up and tear down a huge rig. The other issue is at most of these complexes you have only about 10-15 feet between fields so again, space is an issue. Unless there's a tri-pod that will get the camera 12 feet up with room for an LCD, LANC conrtrol, and pan/tilt/focus/zoom control I haven't found it. If someone knows of something let me know because the jib is the best idea I can come up with.

I don't know about how profitable this venture will turn out to be (got my doubts), but it has a strong personal appeal to me. I would just love to have 720p60 footage, shot with an HD200U, of my son's football games when he was in high school (he was pretty awesome to watch, and I thoroughly enjoyed it). I'd quickly put down some cash to have that. I really wish I had been into shooting video back then, even though it would have been analog SD (a little over 10 years ago).

(Whoops, I'd just read the first and last pages of the thread and didn't see that you've already addressed the fact that you didn't want input on the business stuff. Sorry, my bad.) Not being able to remove the whole thing. Just ignore the following.


You have a lot of good advice here.

The only thing I'd do is caution you that this is a WONDERFUL personal/hobby project - and a TERRIBLE business proposition.

I can't imagine any way to recapture a $60,000 investment over the few years that that gear will be in active use (before it's obsolete via technological advancements) let alone turn a profit.

Most business folk will tell you that an investment like that needs to generate a RETURN of a few times the investment to make the business sustainable - but lets cut it to the bone and assume you just need around a 40% gross return on your investment to survive. That means you'd need to generate $100,000 plus or minus to take profits and also be ready to re-invest in new equipment as your equipment ages over it's expected useful life.

(and if you think that's too agressive, ask yourself what a USED jib sells for on eBay. Not much. Same with camcorders. This stuff loses value VERY, VERY quickly as technology improves.)

Even with shooting 52 weeks a year, you'd need to generate an after expenses profit of around a thousand dollars a week for two straight years to amortize the gear and take a modest $20k/yr in profits out of the business!

That's moving 1000 DVDs each year for two years at $50 each.
THAT is a TOUGH GOAL TO MEET.

Is your soccer league large enough to do that? Are there enough parents willing to part with that kind of money to get memories of their kids? Not just the stars, but the bench kids as well? What about the "off season?"

I don't think your idea is a GEAR driven idea, so much as a BUSINESS PLAN driven idea. And I think the investment you're talking about making has a poor chance of success unless you scale back your investment substantially.

Just my 2 cents.

You realize a jib takes about an Hour and A half to setup and there's so much gear, that you would probably want to drive a truck up to the field any way.

If you get wheels you can probably move the jib around.

At the price of a jib you might be able to get a boom lift.

I bet they sell some kinda colapsible camera platform. I saw one at a concert. It looked kinda like the metal stucture on this boat. No Idea what it was called

http://www.pwsobx.com/images/fishing-boat.jpg

Maybe you should rent a jib to film a game and see how it works out.

Some relatively minor modifications to this would work way better than a jib:

http://www.safeplatforms.com/main-co...affolding.html

Strewth...............
 

Looks positively lethal.

Think the mods may be a tad more than "minor".

CS

I don't know they are called Safe platforms. Look at the gallery under broadcast. Hu EH Eh WEll !

All that really needs, to be relatively safe, would be some sort of extension to the foundation, to make it less tippy, front to back. That could be done by welding on some hinged bars, to fold out from the base a few feet (and lock too).

Of course, if a platform is going to be easily mobile, without being heavy enough to need a motor to move it, it will be at least somewhat susceptible to players colliding with it and knocking it over, and if it is heavy enough not to be susceptible to players knocking it over, it won't be easy to move without a motor.

...and health insurance can be a very good thing.

:)