Does Magic Bullet really work? at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 18th, 2003, 07:48 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 253
Does Magic Bullet really work?

I'm shooting my first feature film next month. It will be shot with an XL1 using photofloods bounced off umbrellas to soften the light.

This is a no-budget production so our lighting equipment is very basic.

I'm trying to decided right now whether to shoot the project in frame movie mode or 60i for later converstion to 24P with magic bullet. But I've never used magic bullet. Honestly this will be the first project where I would apply a post de-interlacer program of any sort.

This project has to look as much like film as possible as it's a horror film and will just look cheesy if it's not.

Aside from not having used magic bullet I'm still fairly new with after effects as well.

Is this a relatively easy plug-in to learn to use even if you're not an after effects master?

I would plan to use some preset film stock look and 24 conversion with magic bullet.

So is magic bullet worth the price?

Also should we decide not to do the 24p conversion and go with FMM can I still use magic bullet for the other film effects it offers?

Thanks
Mike Tesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 09:53 AM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hays, KS
Posts: 188
I wrote a review of Magic Bullet some time ago. This is an excellent product with many presets and easy customization.

I have found that certain "looks" reproduce better than others with different lighting setups.

Check out my article and look at the examples closely.
__________________
Stephen Schleicher
www.stephenschleicher.com
Stephen Schleicher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 12:39 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 745
Stephen, sorry to seem perhaps dense, but where are we looking for this review?
__________________
Breakthrough In Grey Room

Shawn Mielke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 01:52 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hays, KS
Posts: 188
i would start with the website directly below my name... then go to the reviews section....
__________________
Stephen Schleicher
www.stephenschleicher.com
Stephen Schleicher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 01:52 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 64
try his website. The url is in his signature
__________________
Noah Posnick
http://www.posnick.com
Noah Posnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 04:00 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,750
You might get a better look for your film if you spend more on lighting and keeping your crew + director of photography happy with food and coffee.
Glenn Chan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 07:07 PM   #7
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,287
I've written on several occasions here about MB. I get very high quality results, but the render times are very extended. I'm looking forward to running the new version on a Mac G5 dual processor.

Many of the past winners and nominees at Sundance have used MB.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 08:06 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 253
Thanks guys. Does anyone have any samples they could point me to? Stuff that was shot on lower end cameras ($3500 and below) at 60i and turned into 24p.

As for lighting I would really love to have more equipment available we just can't afford it at the moment. So we'll try our best at exposing the footage with soft lighting using umbrellas, gels and foamboard.

The cast and crew will get to eat. Can't not give them that or I don't think anyone would stick around.
__________________
ScapeFilms.com | My Photography | IMDB Profile
Mike Tesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 08:50 PM   #9
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,810
Mike:

Not to beat a dead horse, since you sound pretty sold on using the lighting package you have...but this being a horror movie, if you are thinking to get an atmospheric look for your interiors rather than just "exposed", it is going to be an uphill climb using all soft light.

I just took a peek at Detroit Power and Light's rental catalog, they have two kits that would be tremendous for you; the Arri 4-light Fresnel and the Dedo 3-Light kit, at $70 and $75 a day respectively. Don't panic, you can most likely talk them into a 2 day week or even better.

You don't HAVE to buy lights; the great thing about renting is that you get to check out different units on the job which will help when you might need to make decisions down the road.

The question is this: if you are going to be looking at this footage and the eventual feature for years to come, is it not worth possibly investing a couple hundred bucks that will go directly onto the screen, making the images that much more effective?
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 09:27 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 253
By two day week you mean pay for two days but get them for a week? Is that a 5 day or 7 day week?

Our total budget for the shoot is $1000 including food. That'a s 2-3 month shoot 3-4 day a week. It's really a last minute production. But I'm trying to make the best out of it that I can.

I know cutting corners is a bad thing to do. I also know that light is the most important element to the picture. But with a budget as low as we have it's hard to spread it all out.

EDIT:
Just to expand a little further, I'm not above taking advice from anyone. Any advice is imporatnt to me. So by all means convince me to use hard lighting or a mix of the two. I'll admit lighting is one of my weakest points. Though I am not cinematographer on this project I am director I pass everything I learn on.

My only reason for deciding to go the route of soft lighting is because I have heard it is best for DV do to DV's generally little exposure laditude.

I've always used hard lighting before so this will be the first time trying soft lighting. But as I said our budget more then anything is what is limiting us.
__________________
ScapeFilms.com | My Photography | IMDB Profile
Mike Tesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2003, 10:46 PM   #11
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,810
Hi Mike:

Rental houses have different rates for the week than by the day. Three day weeks (7 day rental for 3x the daily rate) are sort of standard, but lighting and grip houses generally give great discounts. On big shows, they sometimes go down to less than a 1 day week! Not that you should expect that, but...

Are you really shooting for 2-3 months? Or was that weeks?

As far as hard vs soft--that's up to your DP. It's more challenging to use hard light than soft, but it is more controllable, and will give the image more snap. Soft light is great for lighting faces, but it will light everything; walls, ceilings, whatever.

I would recommend mixing both types as needed. Dv has limited latitude, yes, but that just means different lighting ratios.
__________________
Charles Papert
www.charlespapert.com
Charles Papert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2003, 04:57 AM   #12
High School Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canton, Ohio, USA
Posts: 609
No time to read the other replies, but i'll give my input real quick.

Magic bullet DOES work, but I (you) can do the same stuff, or even better in Vegas 4.
Alex Knappenberger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2003, 05:26 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 730
I second Charles' suggestion, i recently rented some dedo's for a short i shot on film, they were perhap's the best lighting i have ever used.

The great thing about renting is, you get to get the top of the range and best stuff available without even being worried about the price of owning them.

I used a kit of 3 dedo's fresnel's, 1 150watt on battery pack's with a projector attachment to focus down to points, and also allows particular gobo shapes to be inserted into the projector element itself, and the other 2 were 300 watt.

They were so light, quick to setup, all had dimmers, gel's, and barndoors.

This cost me $150 AUD for a weekend. so $100 USD for 2 days. Pickup Friday evening, return monday morning.

Such a joy to work with.


Zac
Zac Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2003, 06:19 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 936
I don't know where you're getting MB from, but if your budget is really THAT tight you may want to consider one other possibility. I've used RevisionFX Deinterlacer on all my "pre-DVX" footage and it basically turns 60i into 30p (or 60p...) whatever it does, it does it. For $89 you can make your footage look dramatically more filmlike.

Keep in mind that Deinterlacer is no Magic Bullet, but it's cheap and a freakin' bargain at the price.

Everybody that saw my trv900/trv17 footage with the RevisionFX processing always commented that "there's no way you shot that with a camcorder!"... even this brilliant, hot chick-friend of a friend with a multimedia degree kept questioning the images.

(Of course nobody gave me any credit for lighting and sound and camera-work... but that's another rant for another time.)

www.revisionfx.com if you want a cheap, but probably less effective... way to to make dv footage look more like film. Also with revisionfx the render times are quick! Just apply the filter to applicable clips after the project is done and hit render... then come back in 30min to an hour. (Depending on length). Done.
Matt Gettemeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2003, 08:54 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 253
<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier : I don't know where you're getting MB from, but if your budget is really THAT tight you may want to consider one other possibility. -->>>

My budget is that tight for shooting. Only because this has been a last minute production. The idea to shoot this film only came up at the beginning of August and thats when myself and my co-writer started to go to work on it. It needs to be shot by the beginning of October because we are fighting the weather. We need to shoot the exteriors before the leaves fall off the trees. Then my co-writer/co-producer/best friend himself goes to Hawaii to teach at the beginning of January. Moving there permenantly. We've been making films together for the last 10 years. This is sort of a last hurrah for the both of us together and we only have a 3 month window. So it's all kind of slappped together last minute but yet at the same time is our biggest production to date. So we know it won't be the best becasue of that but we're stilling trying.

The point is post production work could take 2 years and $10,000 for all I care. It's the shooting budget and time frame that is tight unfortunately.

I'll check into rental rates for some fresnals. All exterior shots come first because of the weather. But perhaps I can get all interior shots done in a week or two and some how come up with the extra money. I'll also check out that revisionfx.

To be fair I tried out the DVfilm Maker (dvfilm.com)demo as well yesterday. It seemed to work fine except for artifacts around areas where I had slowed the video down.
__________________
ScapeFilms.com | My Photography | IMDB Profile
Mike Tesh is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:31 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network