slowing it down...
 

i want to film a remote falling to the ground, and i need to be able to slow it down... i will be using an xl-1, and a 1k light with barndoors and diffusion... i dont want it to look static or overly blur... ive just never tried to slow anything down before...
i was thinking that it would look ok at half speed, and that would be all that i would need it to go...
i will be editing in final cut pro, is there any de-interlacer plugin for it, that i could possibly find usful?
thanks
-jake

De-interlacer: Magic Bullet or DV Film

Slomo: Dynapel Slowmotion or Reelsmart Twixtor

BTW, in regard of DVFIlm maker - downloaded a demo - loading avi clips - the program seems to work fine finishing the project and saving as newmovie.avi supposedly deinterlaced file.
Then, playibg back thif file in the editor I see no differences with the source - the same interlacing effects - no differences at all.

Can you please enlight me ? Again, on PC monitor both source and result clips look similar to each other, no any hits for deinterlacing. Do I miss something ?

Alex

Can you please enlight me ? Again, on PC monitor both source and result clips look similar to each other, no any hits for deinterlacing. Do I miss something ?

I think you have to play it back through a TV monitor to see the effect. Try that and see if you can see any difference.

Oh yeah ?? If so, why would I need deinterlacing at all ? TV has an interlaced nature anyway. Just to get, so much talken about "Cinema" look with jerky motion ?

I originally intended the deinterlaced motion video to be properly rendered on PC monitor (to get rid of comb fields effect), but according to your assumption it was not aimed to do that ?

I sounds to be confused indeed. :-)

regards, Alex

Try Dynapel's MotionPerfect. It will slow things down as slow as you want to go, and maintain adsolutley perfect video quality. I use this product a lot in weddings, works great.

Also, for de-interlacing, there are alot of products that will work, but I've found what works best for me is to use VirtualDub and the Smart Deinterlacer plugin from Donald Graft. Plus, it's FREE!

For MotionPerfect, try www.dynapel.com ($46.50 I think)
For Virtualdub, try www.virtualdub.com (free)
For Smartfilter, try www.neuron2.net (free)

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Thanks Mark a lot, will look at these.
Does the deinterlaced you mentioned work indeed on PC monitor ?
I'm confused since according to DVFilm Maker site their software is aimed specifically to deinterlace, but on the other hand it should be viewed on TV ?? Sounds contradictory.

Alex

Well, Mark, the VirtualDub I figured is intended for Intel-based platforms on P4, I'm using Ahtlon.
Couldn't figure the Smartfilter of Donald Graft. There is lots of software under his site link, many noise filters for instance, but the only deinterlacer I was able to figure is some kind of program running from Command line (no user interface) and intended for BMP files.

:-(

Regards, Alex

Hi Alex,

Go to neuron2.net, in the boxes on the left, click "Mine", after the page loads, about halfway down, under VirtualDub Filters, you will see a link for "Smart Deinterlace Filter". Once you've downloaded it, unzip it and place it in the "plugins" directory of Virtualdub. Start up Virtualdub and you will be able to select it from the filters you can be applied to the video. For details on how to use VirtualDub, check out www.doom9.net, there are some really good tuts on VirtualDub. And yes, I belong to the Intel world, but I do most of my editing/encoding on a Sony VAIO laptop (Duron 900 with 256MB RAM) - my wife won't let me spend any more money on the lastest/greated hardware <GRIN>

Smart Deinterlacer does the best job I've seen of deinterlacing. It has an algorithem (sp?) that interpolates new frames from both fields, so you do not lose vertical resolution or suffer from "ghosting". On really complex high motion scenes, I have seen an occasional macroblock, but this is rare, and you can usually fix this by playing with the settings in the filter's options dialog.

Cheers,
Mark

{EDIT} I forgot to mention that deinterlaced video will work on a TV. As a matter of fact, I think the video looks better deinterlaced than interlaced, but this is a personal preference, and your milage may vary. Cheers

Thanks, will try it out.

Regards, Alex

mac
 

im actually looking for mac based de-interlacers and slow motion plugins so...
thanks for all of this anyway...

Hey Mark, just made my first endeavor of running VirtualDub. Loading AVI file I have from my cam, it generates an error pop-up window notifying that it cannot locate the decompressor for DVSD format and that DirectShow codecs utilized by Win Media Player are not suitable , but it requires
Video for Windows codecs.

I'm not a software guy, you know...what should I do ?

Alex

shoot it with 1/60 shutter . if too much blur then go to higher shutter ...

shoot shot using FRAME MODE and repeat same shot using Normal interlace mode .

then both slow down in FCP .. decide which mode you like best .. i do not think you would have to do any deinterlacing for 1/2 speed slow mo...

let us know which mode you liked or worked best ..

I've been doing a lot of slo-mo using FCP on the Mac and find the following gives good results:

1. shoot in 60i
2. modify the speed in FCP and select the "frame blending" option
3. (optional) export to a FCP file, then process with DVFilm Maker

It's important to do things in this order to get the best results. The interlaced raw footage makes for better slowed down frames, and the DV Film Maker adaptive deinterlacing will give you sharp individual frames. But if you deinterlace before slowing the footage down it will flicker since the frame blended results will be in sharp contrast to the deinterlaced frames.

In FCP I can see a big difference when I deinterlace with DVfilm Maker. There is a preference somewhere, maybe in the render settings (?) to show both fields - make sure this is checked. But if you don't like the 30p look then just leave the 60i results alone.

I've been playing with the Dynapel program mentioned earlier in this thread. Dynapel Slow-Motion... if you're considering buying this you may want to check out the demo first. With my Canopus system there are some very bizarre anamolies happening. It's not all bad though... just strange.

I originally wanted a good way to create slow-motion, but now I guess I found a weirdness plug-in. I'll still pay for the full version.

Basically what's happening is the program perfectly draws in the extra frames so that anything that ISN'T moving shows no change, but the things in frame that are moving have a sort of a motion "halo" around them. It's kind of like what you see over the edge of something hot on a summer day... almost a vibration surrounding the motion. Like I said, it 'aint what I wanted, but it 'aint all bad either.

Anybody other then you guys, who sees my next video, will be dying to know how I "did that cool effect".

All things being equal I'd rather the program simply did what it says it does. As an effective slow-motion tool, it's lacking in my experience.

If you had a similar occurance and know the remedy then speak up!

Alex,

You need a DV codec installed to read the DV file. I have a Sony VAIO, and the codec came pre-installed so I don't have this problem. Anybody else out there have a solution or know where Alex can get a DV codec?

Matt,

Dynapel Slow-motion sucks. Try MotionPerfect instead. Slow-motion is known to create some really weird effects. MotionPerfect does a much better job.

Cheers,
Mark

Thanks Mark... actually I need to THANK you for turning me on to Dynapel... I'll get MotionPerfect today just on your recommendation... but I'm not kidding when I say you should check out what SlowMotion does. I wasn't bullsh*tting just for effect when I said it isn't all bad.

I slowed some plays from my nephew's football game and the players would be surrounded by "stretching turf"... the grass would move and stretch around each player... mainly from the legs and down... and the really bizarre part is that if another player (from waist and up) went in front of a player that had this anamoly... it wouldn't effect the closer player! The goofy pixel shifting stays tied to the object it was originally affecting even if something else is crystal clear passing in front of the wacky shifting. That's why I said it 'aint all bad. If you wanted to create an effect like this for some reason, it would take MONTHS to pull it off.

I was going to start a new thread about this, but my feelings of "obligation to the group" will be fulfilled with this post. I can guarantee I'll use the slow-warp look in future projects and I'll stay tight-lipped about how I did it.

Matt,

I'm glad it works for you. I tried Slow-Motion and didn't like what it did, but I was looking at it from a wedding standpoint. MotionPPerfect can have some strange effects, but noting like Slow-Motion. I originally got into Motionperfect because Twixtor was too expensive. Now I use it all the time and people ask "how did you make the camera run so slow?" "Trade secret", I tell them. That's why they pay me the big (small?) bucks.

I hope to eventually do video full time, but right now I don't make enough money at it, so I'll continue to do this until I get laid off (again).

Cheers,
Mark

Adjust the shutter to 120+ and shoot the remote. When played back in your NLE will be slowed, stobed a little. If that is what you are looking for. Or apply a motion effect on the clip and chop the frames down like mentioned above. (I wish I could over crank or under crank my DV)

You will need a lot of light to match the surrounding environment.

Cheers!

Derrick

Thanks Mark, I'll be looking forward to get advised about the necessary DV codec installation to try out that thing...

Any software specialists out there ??

Alex

Here's my September 30th update... I've been playing with SlowMotion, MotionPerfect, AND Twixtor... and ALL of 'em do the same thing with slow-motion.

They ALL do this wacky "warp" thing on my Canopus system. I even found a post that said, "perfect slow-motion with Canopus' Speed Controller".... anyway, I downloaded that and it's just like slowing video in Premiere... no difference.

So I've been trying all different codecs to try fixing the "warp effect" and so far to no avail. I even tried uncompressed video and they all still do it.

Oh well, I'm glad I figured out that there isn't much difference between Dynapel MotionPerfect and Twixtor 'cause Twixtor is 6 times the price of Dynapel.

Thanks guys... I guess I'm out of luck on the super-slow I wanted.

can you do a wire rig to the remote ?
do you have any wire removal software ?

remote
 

i had this idea...
shoot the remote falling, and in post, do my slowing, then double and put the new one slightly over top of it, with a screen or overlay...
say a single frame has become 2 frames in length, a 50% slow down... i would offset the new layer one frame, right where there would be that interpratated frame...
has anyone done this? could it acheive a good look?
no i dont have a wire system... but its in my apartment, right above the couch... how would i set up such a wire system...
i do have the power of inserting a 3d remote that i have designed, but its hard to replicate a object... i might just try that and see what it looks like...
well thanx all, keep it coming ^_^

thanx,
-jake

wire .. attached fishing line (dull) or other THIN line (at 2 points ) to remote. then some type of eye ring /pully into ceiling or if you have C stand with double extension you could off set gobo head with some type of attachment for line to go down smooth ... so basically the line is controlling the speed of remote dropping .. person off camera controls the line.
the camera is LOCKED down then in NLE you might add little motion blur ... in commotion you could remove any line that is seen using wire removal ... also it might work if you drop line little faster then want it and then do little slo-mo in NLE .. ? you'll have to play with it a little to find what works best.

i do like the idea of your 3D remote... then you have total control on it falling and how it turns /spins during fall ...

When I asked on another board about how to use DV files with VirtualDub and AviSynth, I was told that the MS DV codec was a Type 1 DV codec, and that the codec was a DirectShow-style one, which, unfortunately, Vdub can't use. AviSynth can, but, for whatever reason, it doesn't get audio yet.

So, someone pointed me towards these links: A free Canopus DV decoder (no encosing at all), which will decode all Canopus-encoded DV files, and a Canopus Type 1 <-> Type 2 DV converter which doesn't have to recompress the DV stream.

This is fine for me, since anything I rub through Vdub right now won't have to go back into another NLE, but for other people, it might be a hassle since Vdub still can't encode DV. You'd have to get the full Canopus codec for that. Or maybe the Sony one off the VIAOs, since apparently that will do Type 2 as well.

The only thing you have to worry about is that apparently Type 2 DV can be prone to audio sync issues. But IME, it's not a big deal.

Hope that helped.

Hi Jon,

When I looked through the codecs in my VAIO, I did indeed have a Sony DV codec installed. I've never really thought about outputting to DV from vdub, since I use it primarily for DivX. When I use the Smart Deinterlacer, I output to HUFYUV to keep the video as pristine as I can. I'll have to see if I can get the Sony DV codec off my laptop.

BTW, is there another program that will convert Type 1 DV to Type 2 DV without loss? I don't have any Canopus anything (or other capture cards for that matter) so I don't know if the process you mentioned will work for non-Canopus users.

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Yeah, there's a Ulead one, too although that didn't work when I tried it.

You know, I wouldn't have any problems with any of this if Premiere or Vegas or After Effects could open either VirtualDub frameserver signpost files or AviSynth scripts, but they all use methods which bypass the hooks those frameservers install. This is a shame, because it would be really useful to open a DV stream in Vdub, set up some filters, and then set it to serve the frames without having to ever recompress, and (this is the best part) also without having to waste file space with a HuffYUV or extra DV file.

Ok, after digging around a little bit I found some DV codecs that could be used. One, we have the MainConcept one, which you have to pay $50 for. Two, we have the Matrox one which is supposedly lesser quality, but it's free.

Just install one of these and both AviSynth and VirtualDub will open it beautifully, and Vdub will be able to reencode it, too.

When working on my Lady X episode I slowed down quite a lot
of footage within Vegas 4. I think it did quite a good job.