slowing it down... at DVinfo.net

Jake Rheinfrank · September 25th, 2003, 10:16 PM

i want to film a remote falling to the ground, and i need to be able to slow it down... i will be using an xl-1, and a 1k light with barndoors and diffusion... i dont want it to look static or overly blur... ive just never tried to slow anything down before...
i was thinking that it would look ok at half speed, and that would be all that i would need it to go...
i will be editing in final cut pro, is there any de-interlacer plugin for it, that i could possibly find usful?
thanks
-jake

Bram Corstjens · September 26th, 2003, 12:45 AM

De-interlacer: Magic Bullet or DV Film

Slomo: Dynapel Slowmotion or Reelsmart Twixtor

Alex Zabrovsky · September 29th, 2003, 12:29 AM

BTW, in regard of DVFIlm maker - downloaded a demo - loading avi clips - the program seems to work fine finishing the project and saving as newmovie.avi supposedly deinterlaced file.
Then, playibg back thif file in the editor I see no differences with the source - the same interlacing effects - no differences at all.

Can you please enlight me ? Again, on PC monitor both source and result clips look similar to each other, no any hits for deinterlacing. Do I miss something ?

Alex

Charles King · September 29th, 2003, 02:35 AM

Can you please enlight me ? Again, on PC monitor both source and result clips look similar to each other, no any hits for deinterlacing. Do I miss something ?

I think you have to play it back through a TV monitor to see the effect. Try that and see if you can see any difference.

Alex Zabrovsky · September 29th, 2003, 02:48 AM

Oh yeah ?? If so, why would I need deinterlacing at all ? TV has an interlaced nature anyway. Just to get, so much talken about "Cinema" look with jerky motion ?

I originally intended the deinterlaced motion video to be properly rendered on PC monitor (to get rid of comb fields effect), but according to your assumption it was not aimed to do that ?

I sounds to be confused indeed. :-)

regards, Alex

Mark Jefferson · September 29th, 2003, 06:39 AM

Try Dynapel's MotionPerfect. It will slow things down as slow as you want to go, and maintain adsolutley perfect video quality. I use this product a lot in weddings, works great.

Also, for de-interlacing, there are alot of products that will work, but I've found what works best for me is to use VirtualDub and the Smart Deinterlacer plugin from Donald Graft. Plus, it's FREE!

For MotionPerfect, try www.dynapel.com ($46.50 I think)
For Virtualdub, try www.virtualdub.com (free)
For Smartfilter, try www.neuron2.net (free)

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Alex Zabrovsky · September 29th, 2003, 07:14 AM

Thanks Mark a lot, will look at these.
Does the deinterlaced you mentioned work indeed on PC monitor ?
I'm confused since according to DVFilm Maker site their software is aimed specifically to deinterlace, but on the other hand it should be viewed on TV ?? Sounds contradictory.

Alex

Alex Zabrovsky · September 29th, 2003, 07:30 AM

Well, Mark, the VirtualDub I figured is intended for Intel-based platforms on P4, I'm using Ahtlon.
Couldn't figure the Smartfilter of Donald Graft. There is lots of software under his site link, many noise filters for instance, but the only deinterlacer I was able to figure is some kind of program running from Command line (no user interface) and intended for BMP files.

:-(

Regards, Alex

Mark Jefferson · September 29th, 2003, 10:24 AM

Hi Alex,

Go to neuron2.net, in the boxes on the left, click "Mine", after the page loads, about halfway down, under VirtualDub Filters, you will see a link for "Smart Deinterlace Filter". Once you've downloaded it, unzip it and place it in the "plugins" directory of Virtualdub. Start up Virtualdub and you will be able to select it from the filters you can be applied to the video. For details on how to use VirtualDub, check out www.doom9.net, there are some really good tuts on VirtualDub. And yes, I belong to the Intel world, but I do most of my editing/encoding on a Sony VAIO laptop (Duron 900 with 256MB RAM) - my wife won't let me spend any more money on the lastest/greated hardware <GRIN>

Smart Deinterlacer does the best job I've seen of deinterlacing. It has an algorithem (sp?) that interpolates new frames from both fields, so you do not lose vertical resolution or suffer from "ghosting". On really complex high motion scenes, I have seen an occasional macroblock, but this is rare, and you can usually fix this by playing with the settings in the filter's options dialog.

Cheers,
Mark

{EDIT} I forgot to mention that deinterlaced video will work on a TV. As a matter of fact, I think the video looks better deinterlaced than interlaced, but this is a personal preference, and your milage may vary. Cheers

Alex Zabrovsky · September 29th, 2003, 10:29 AM

Thanks, will try it out.

Regards, Alex

Jake Rheinfrank · September 29th, 2003, 12:08 PM

im actually looking for mac based de-interlacers and slow motion plugins so...
thanks for all of this anyway...

Alex Zabrovsky · September 29th, 2003, 12:27 PM

Hey Mark, just made my first endeavor of running VirtualDub. Loading AVI file I have from my cam, it generates an error pop-up window notifying that it cannot locate the decompressor for DVSD format and that DirectShow codecs utilized by Win Media Player are not suitable , but it requires
Video for Windows codecs.

I'm not a software guy, you know...what should I do ?

Alex

Don Donatello · September 29th, 2003, 03:22 PM

shoot it with 1/60 shutter . if too much blur then go to higher shutter ...

shoot shot using FRAME MODE and repeat same shot using Normal interlace mode .

then both slow down in FCP .. decide which mode you like best .. i do not think you would have to do any deinterlacing for 1/2 speed slow mo...

let us know which mode you liked or worked best ..

Boyd Ostroff · September 29th, 2003, 08:56 PM

I've been doing a lot of slo-mo using FCP on the Mac and find the following gives good results:

1. shoot in 60i
2. modify the speed in FCP and select the "frame blending" option
3. (optional) export to a FCP file, then process with DVFilm Maker

It's important to do things in this order to get the best results. The interlaced raw footage makes for better slowed down frames, and the DV Film Maker adaptive deinterlacing will give you sharp individual frames. But if you deinterlace before slowing the footage down it will flicker since the frame blended results will be in sharp contrast to the deinterlaced frames.

In FCP I can see a big difference when I deinterlace with DVfilm Maker. There is a preference somewhere, maybe in the render settings (?) to show both fields - make sure this is checked. But if you don't like the 30p look then just leave the 60i results alone.

Matt Gettemeier · September 29th, 2003, 10:57 PM

I've been playing with the Dynapel program mentioned earlier in this thread. Dynapel Slow-Motion... if you're considering buying this you may want to check out the demo first. With my Canopus system there are some very bizarre anamolies happening. It's not all bad though... just strange.

I originally wanted a good way to create slow-motion, but now I guess I found a weirdness plug-in. I'll still pay for the full version.

Basically what's happening is the program perfectly draws in the extra frames so that anything that ISN'T moving shows no change, but the things in frame that are moving have a sort of a motion "halo" around them. It's kind of like what you see over the edge of something hot on a summer day... almost a vibration surrounding the motion. Like I said, it 'aint what I wanted, but it 'aint all bad either.

Anybody other then you guys, who sees my next video, will be dying to know how I "did that cool effect".

All things being equal I'd rather the program simply did what it says it does. As an effective slow-motion tool, it's lacking in my experience.

If you had a similar occurance and know the remedy then speak up!

September 25th, 2003, 10:16 PM	#1
Jake Rheinfrank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: santa fe, new mexico Posts: 24	slowing it down... i want to film a remote falling to the ground, and i need to be able to slow it down... i will be using an xl-1, and a 1k light with barndoors and diffusion... i dont want it to look static or overly blur... ive just never tried to slow anything down before... i was thinking that it would look ok at half speed, and that would be all that i would need it to go... i will be editing in final cut pro, is there any de-interlacer plugin for it, that i could possibly find usful? thanks -jake __________________ jake rheinfrank xl-1 mac g4 sony 866 desktop student

September 29th, 2003, 02:35 AM	#4
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	Can you please enlight me ? Again, on PC monitor both source and result clips look similar to each other, no any hits for deinterlacing. Do I miss something ? I think you have to play it back through a TV monitor to see the effect. Try that and see if you can see any difference. __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

September 29th, 2003, 12:08 PM	#11
Jake Rheinfrank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: santa fe, new mexico Posts: 24	mac im actually looking for mac based de-interlacers and slow motion plugins so... thanks for all of this anyway... __________________ jake rheinfrank xl-1 mac g4 sony 866 desktop student

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September 26th, 2003, 12:45 AM	#2
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	De-interlacer: Magic Bullet or DV Film Slomo: Dynapel Slowmotion or Reelsmart Twixtor

September 29th, 2003, 12:29 AM	#3
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	BTW, in regard of DVFIlm maker - downloaded a demo - loading avi clips - the program seems to work fine finishing the project and saving as newmovie.avi supposedly deinterlaced file. Then, playibg back thif file in the editor I see no differences with the source - the same interlacing effects - no differences at all. Can you please enlight me ? Again, on PC monitor both source and result clips look similar to each other, no any hits for deinterlacing. Do I miss something ? Alex

September 29th, 2003, 02:48 AM	#5
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	Oh yeah ?? If so, why would I need deinterlacing at all ? TV has an interlaced nature anyway. Just to get, so much talken about "Cinema" look with jerky motion ? I originally intended the deinterlaced motion video to be properly rendered on PC monitor (to get rid of comb fields effect), but according to your assumption it was not aimed to do that ? I sounds to be confused indeed. :-) regards, Alex

September 29th, 2003, 06:39 AM	#6
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Try Dynapel's MotionPerfect. It will slow things down as slow as you want to go, and maintain adsolutley perfect video quality. I use this product a lot in weddings, works great. Also, for de-interlacing, there are alot of products that will work, but I've found what works best for me is to use VirtualDub and the Smart Deinterlacer plugin from Donald Graft. Plus, it's FREE! For MotionPerfect, try www.dynapel.com ($46.50 I think) For Virtualdub, try www.virtualdub.com (free) For Smartfilter, try www.neuron2.net (free) Cheers, Mark Jefferson

September 29th, 2003, 07:14 AM	#7
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	Thanks Mark a lot, will look at these. Does the deinterlaced you mentioned work indeed on PC monitor ? I'm confused since according to DVFilm Maker site their software is aimed specifically to deinterlace, but on the other hand it should be viewed on TV ?? Sounds contradictory. Alex

September 29th, 2003, 07:30 AM	#8
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	Well, Mark, the VirtualDub I figured is intended for Intel-based platforms on P4, I'm using Ahtlon. Couldn't figure the Smartfilter of Donald Graft. There is lots of software under his site link, many noise filters for instance, but the only deinterlacer I was able to figure is some kind of program running from Command line (no user interface) and intended for BMP files. :-( Regards, Alex

September 29th, 2003, 10:24 AM	#9
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Hi Alex, Go to neuron2.net, in the boxes on the left, click "Mine", after the page loads, about halfway down, under VirtualDub Filters, you will see a link for "Smart Deinterlace Filter". Once you've downloaded it, unzip it and place it in the "plugins" directory of Virtualdub. Start up Virtualdub and you will be able to select it from the filters you can be applied to the video. For details on how to use VirtualDub, check out www.doom9.net, there are some really good tuts on VirtualDub. And yes, I belong to the Intel world, but I do most of my editing/encoding on a Sony VAIO laptop (Duron 900 with 256MB RAM) - my wife won't let me spend any more money on the lastest/greated hardware <GRIN> Smart Deinterlacer does the best job I've seen of deinterlacing. It has an algorithem (sp?) that interpolates new frames from both fields, so you do not lose vertical resolution or suffer from "ghosting". On really complex high motion scenes, I have seen an occasional macroblock, but this is rare, and you can usually fix this by playing with the settings in the filter's options dialog. Cheers, Mark {EDIT} I forgot to mention that deinterlaced video will work on a TV. As a matter of fact, I think the video looks better deinterlaced than interlaced, but this is a personal preference, and your milage may vary. Cheers

September 29th, 2003, 10:29 AM	#10
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	Thanks, will try it out. Regards, Alex

September 29th, 2003, 12:27 PM	#12
Alex Zabrovsky Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 175	Hey Mark, just made my first endeavor of running VirtualDub. Loading AVI file I have from my cam, it generates an error pop-up window notifying that it cannot locate the decompressor for DVSD format and that DirectShow codecs utilized by Win Media Player are not suitable , but it requires Video for Windows codecs. I'm not a software guy, you know...what should I do ? Alex

September 29th, 2003, 03:22 PM	#13
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	shoot it with 1/60 shutter . if too much blur then go to higher shutter ... shoot shot using FRAME MODE and repeat same shot using Normal interlace mode . then both slow down in FCP .. decide which mode you like best .. i do not think you would have to do any deinterlacing for 1/2 speed slow mo... let us know which mode you liked or worked best ..

September 29th, 2003, 08:56 PM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I've been doing a lot of slo-mo using FCP on the Mac and find the following gives good results: 1. shoot in 60i 2. modify the speed in FCP and select the "frame blending" option 3. (optional) export to a FCP file, then process with DVFilm Maker It's important to do things in this order to get the best results. The interlaced raw footage makes for better slowed down frames, and the DV Film Maker adaptive deinterlacing will give you sharp individual frames. But if you deinterlace before slowing the footage down it will flicker since the frame blended results will be in sharp contrast to the deinterlaced frames. In FCP I can see a big difference when I deinterlace with DVfilm Maker. There is a preference somewhere, maybe in the render settings (?) to show both fields - make sure this is checked. But if you don't like the 30p look then just leave the 60i results alone.

September 29th, 2003, 10:57 PM	#15
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	I've been playing with the Dynapel program mentioned earlier in this thread. Dynapel Slow-Motion... if you're considering buying this you may want to check out the demo first. With my Canopus system there are some very bizarre anamolies happening. It's not all bad though... just strange. I originally wanted a good way to create slow-motion, but now I guess I found a weirdness plug-in. I'll still pay for the full version. Basically what's happening is the program perfectly draws in the extra frames so that anything that ISN'T moving shows no change, but the things in frame that are moving have a sort of a motion "halo" around them. It's kind of like what you see over the edge of something hot on a summer day... almost a vibration surrounding the motion. Like I said, it 'aint what I wanted, but it 'aint all bad either. Anybody other then you guys, who sees my next video, will be dying to know how I "did that cool effect". All things being equal I'd rather the program simply did what it says it does. As an effective slow-motion tool, it's lacking in my experience. If you had a similar occurance and know the remedy then speak up!