Benefit to going component out?

Martin Garrison · December 10th, 2003, 03:53 PM

Chroma Upsamplers/Smoothers do wonders for keying 4:1:1 footage. But does that really compare with trying to pull a key from footage that was originally captured direct to disk via component outputs? Upsampling can't replace all the color information lost from DV compression nor the resolution if the camera front end has better specs than DV tape.

Assuming the Chromakey shoot is in studio, hooking directly from a camera to an Uncompressed NLE doesn't seem like that much trouble. And it would be much more affordable than shooting on Digibeta.

I don't believe the DV5000U supports component out. I know the sonys (dsr300/500) do. The JVC does support Y/C out though.

If you already have access to the chromakey, you may want to run some tests and see if you can get the quality of keys you need from an upsampler, before investing in an uncompressed capture system.

Ken Hodson · December 10th, 2003, 04:22 PM

I never asked for practicle. I simply wan't the best image possible.
The JVC has composite BNC out and Y/c. No component out. I have asked the technical differences or limitation between the two on a different post.

Martin-"Chroma Upsamplers/Smoothers do wonders for keying 4:1:1 footage. But does that really compare with trying to pull a key from footage that was originally captured direct to disk via component outputs? Upsampling can't replace all the color information lost from DV compression nor the resolution if the camera front end has better specs than DV tape."

Precisely what I have been asking. And is really all I want to know.
Ken

Graeme Nattress · December 10th, 2003, 04:31 PM

The camera front end nearly always has better specs than the tape. If you want the best keying quality do it live via hardware and record the result. Next best is record it live uncompressed to disk. After than use the chroma-upsampler. As for the percentage difference in quality between these - it's hard to tell. I'd reckon that the biggest drop would be the totally live hardware solution to any of the computer based solutions.

Graeme

Ken Hodson · December 10th, 2003, 04:41 PM

"If you want the best keying quality do it live via hardware and record the result. Next best is record it live uncompressed to disk. After than use the chroma-upsampler"

I don't really get what you saying here? By live via hardware do you mean onto the cams tape?
Why would I need to chroma-upsample my uncompressed footage?
Ken

Graeme Nattress · December 10th, 2003, 04:47 PM

When I say "live via hardware" I mean take the component output from the camera into an Ultimatte box and do your keying live. Record the result back out to tape or live to you computer. That's going to give you best quality.

The next best solution is the record the camera component output uncompressed to your computer. At that point you can use a software chroma-key and tweak the results.

The next best solution after that is capture via DV and use a chroma-upsampler.

Graeme

Ken Hodson · December 11th, 2003, 05:17 AM

What are some of the best chroma upsamplers? I am a PC guy but would like to here of mac products as well.

Ken

December 10th, 2003, 04:22 PM	#17
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I never asked for practicle. I simply wan't the best image possible. The JVC has composite BNC out and Y/c. No component out. I have asked the technical differences or limitation between the two on a different post. Martin-"Chroma Upsamplers/Smoothers do wonders for keying 4:1:1 footage. But does that really compare with trying to pull a key from footage that was originally captured direct to disk via component outputs? Upsampling can't replace all the color information lost from DV compression nor the resolution if the camera front end has better specs than DV tape." Precisely what I have been asking. And is really all I want to know. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

December 10th, 2003, 04:31 PM	#18
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	The camera front end nearly always has better specs than the tape. If you want the best keying quality do it live via hardware and record the result. Next best is record it live uncompressed to disk. After than use the chroma-upsampler. As for the percentage difference in quality between these - it's hard to tell. I'd reckon that the biggest drop would be the totally live hardware solution to any of the computer based solutions. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 10th, 2003, 04:41 PM	#19
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	"If you want the best keying quality do it live via hardware and record the result. Next best is record it live uncompressed to disk. After than use the chroma-upsampler" I don't really get what you saying here? By live via hardware do you mean onto the cams tape? Why would I need to chroma-upsample my uncompressed footage? Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

December 10th, 2003, 04:47 PM	#20
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	When I say "live via hardware" I mean take the component output from the camera into an Ultimatte box and do your keying live. Record the result back out to tape or live to you computer. That's going to give you best quality. The next best solution is the record the camera component output uncompressed to your computer. At that point you can use a software chroma-key and tweak the results. The next best solution after that is capture via DV and use a chroma-upsampler. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 11th, 2003, 05:17 AM	#21
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	What are some of the best chroma upsamplers? I am a PC guy but would like to here of mac products as well. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

December 10th, 2003, 03:53 PM	#16
Martin Garrison Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 173	Chroma Upsamplers/Smoothers do wonders for keying 4:1:1 footage. But does that really compare with trying to pull a key from footage that was originally captured direct to disk via component outputs? Upsampling can't replace all the color information lost from DV compression nor the resolution if the camera front end has better specs than DV tape. Assuming the Chromakey shoot is in studio, hooking directly from a camera to an Uncompressed NLE doesn't seem like that much trouble. And it would be much more affordable than shooting on Digibeta. I don't believe the DV5000U supports component out. I know the sonys (dsr300/500) do. The JVC does support Y/C out though. If you already have access to the chromakey, you may want to run some tests and see if you can get the quality of keys you need from an upsampler, before investing in an uncompressed capture system.