Question for DSR-390 owners at DVinfo.net

John Steele · March 24th, 2004, 10:20 AM

Guys,

I've got a Sony DSR-390 PAL which I've had since last July. I noticed a while back that if I was shooting a dark area I could see a pattern of faint vertical lines going across the entire screen with 2 lines in the centre being most prominent. Well to cut a long story short I've just got the camera back today from Sony, they swapped out the CCD block but I'm still seeing this problem. Monitor, connection, cables etc have all been ruled out, this is definately a camera thing, but what I wanted to ask is for anyone out there with a 390 if they could point their camera at a dark part of a room, wall or floor makes it easiest to see, then pan left and right to see if you can see this pattern of lines.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

John.

Alfred Okocha · March 24th, 2004, 12:26 PM

hi John.

I have the dsr 370 and I've never seen anything like that.. Could be a dsr 390 problem maybe?? Due to the newer chips??
How's the camera compared to the 370 otherwise? Do the new chips make a huge difference?

John Steele · March 24th, 2004, 02:26 PM

Hi Alfred,

Thanks for replying, I've never used a 370 so don't really know how much of a difference the new chips make, but could you double check your 370 for me, this problem is very very subtle. It took a while before I noticed it.

Thanks.

John.

Mike Rehmus · March 24th, 2004, 06:45 PM

Black Balance the camera 5-6 times and see what happens.

Are you seeing this from the camera head or the E to E output? Composite, S-Video, iLink, and it is recorded on the tape?

Paul Dhadialla · March 24th, 2004, 11:43 PM

John - are you testing this in the same location all the time. What is your power source like. Anything in the environment that could be affecting it - causing interference. I have seen lines come up before on my monitor with other cameras when there are unstable power sources, you are near transformers, the power supply to the camera is unregulated - you're too near a TV.
I own a DSR-300 - and don't see this however.

Just some thoughts.
Thanks
Paul

John Steele · March 25th, 2004, 04:23 AM

Hi Guys,

Black balancing doesn't change the problem and I see it on all outputs (Composite/S-vid/Firewire) it also is recorded to tape. I've tried it in several locations using different monitors and they all display it, if I hook up my VX2000 to the same monitor I've just had the 390 on, it looks fine, no lines and it was only 1/3rd of the price of the 390 :) .

Paul Could you do me a favour, point your 300 at a wall, then bring the iris down to F11 then pan left and right and see if you see anything. The lines are faint but if they're there you'll see them, but I do reckon this is just a problem with my camera.

Any ideas what else in the camera it could be as the CCD block has just been replaced.

Thanks guys.

John.

John Steele · March 26th, 2004, 10:26 AM

To make matters worse, I noticed a few dead pixels on screen with the new CCD block, all visible at 0db, the old CCD block had some but they were only visible at 36db or using a DPR mode, which I never ever do. So basically my camera has went for repair and came back worse than before it went. What a pain in the Butt this is. Off it goes again on Tuesday to have the original CCD block put back in and re-checked for the line problem. It better not come back any worse again. AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH

John.

Mike Rehmus · March 26th, 2004, 02:29 PM

Call your in-country pro support person and have them bird-dog the issue if you can.

John Steele · March 29th, 2004, 05:31 AM

Hi Mike, I've never heard the expression "bird-dog" before, can you explain :)

Also I managed to get hold of a DSR-300 for a comparison, the 300 also had the lines but was worse than the 390, I've come to the conclusion that it must just be a characteristic of the camera but now I have a pixel problem that I could have avoided. ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH again.

John.

Mike Rehmus · March 29th, 2004, 11:39 AM

Bird-dog - to follow around and make certain something happens.

John,

I cannot recall seeing lines in the output of my DSR-300.

At least I have never seen them when I'm editing and I shoot theatre where most of the visual field is solid black. Even with gain all the way up, I've not seen any faint lines.

Do you see these lines with the lens-cap on? What about when you black-balance?

John Steele · March 31st, 2004, 01:32 PM

Hi Mike,

I'm using PAL cameras so it may only be a PAL thing, but in normal shooting you probably won't see them, even when filming dark theatre, but the guy who owned the 300 had owned the cam for a couple of years and was surprised when I pointed the lines out. You can see them with the lens cap on, try it in a dark room with the brightness on your monitor turned up you might see it then, but looks like it's nothing to worry about.

My camera is back to Sony today for them to check out the dead pixel, I must admit they have been good and quick taking the camera in and getting it back to me, but I only wish I'd done the comparison before I sent it the first time and I'd have saved myself some hassle.

Oh well, we live and learn :) At least I feel like I'm getting my moneys worth by using Prime support :)

John.

Mike Rehmus · March 31st, 2004, 03:51 PM

Interested to see if you can 'see' them on a waveform monitor.

March 24th, 2004, 10:20 AM	#1
John Steele Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 216	Question for DSR-390 owners Guys, I've got a Sony DSR-390 PAL which I've had since last July. I noticed a while back that if I was shooting a dark area I could see a pattern of faint vertical lines going across the entire screen with 2 lines in the centre being most prominent. Well to cut a long story short I've just got the camera back today from Sony, they swapped out the CCD block but I'm still seeing this problem. Monitor, connection, cables etc have all been ruled out, this is definately a camera thing, but what I wanted to ask is for anyone out there with a 390 if they could point their camera at a dark part of a room, wall or floor makes it easiest to see, then pan left and right to see if you can see this pattern of lines. Any help would be greatly appreciated. John.

March 24th, 2004, 06:45 PM	#4
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Black Balance the camera 5-6 times and see what happens. Are you seeing this from the camera head or the E to E output? Composite, S-Video, iLink, and it is recorded on the tape? __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 26th, 2004, 02:29 PM	#8
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Call your in-country pro support person and have them bird-dog the issue if you can. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 29th, 2004, 11:39 AM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Bird-dog - to follow around and make certain something happens. John, I cannot recall seeing lines in the output of my DSR-300. At least I have never seen them when I'm editing and I shoot theatre where most of the visual field is solid black. Even with gain all the way up, I've not seen any faint lines. Do you see these lines with the lens-cap on? What about when you black-balance? __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 31st, 2004, 03:51 PM	#12
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Interested to see if you can 'see' them on a waveform monitor. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

March 24th, 2004, 12:26 PM	#2
Alfred Okocha Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 427	hi John. I have the dsr 370 and I've never seen anything like that.. Could be a dsr 390 problem maybe?? Due to the newer chips?? How's the camera compared to the 370 otherwise? Do the new chips make a huge difference?

March 24th, 2004, 02:26 PM	#3
John Steele Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 216	Hi Alfred, Thanks for replying, I've never used a 370 so don't really know how much of a difference the new chips make, but could you double check your 370 for me, this problem is very very subtle. It took a while before I noticed it. Thanks. John.

March 24th, 2004, 11:43 PM	#5
Paul Dhadialla Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 143	John - are you testing this in the same location all the time. What is your power source like. Anything in the environment that could be affecting it - causing interference. I have seen lines come up before on my monitor with other cameras when there are unstable power sources, you are near transformers, the power supply to the camera is unregulated - you're too near a TV. I own a DSR-300 - and don't see this however. Just some thoughts. Thanks Paul

March 25th, 2004, 04:23 AM	#6
John Steele Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 216	Hi Guys, Black balancing doesn't change the problem and I see it on all outputs (Composite/S-vid/Firewire) it also is recorded to tape. I've tried it in several locations using different monitors and they all display it, if I hook up my VX2000 to the same monitor I've just had the 390 on, it looks fine, no lines and it was only 1/3rd of the price of the 390 :) . Paul Could you do me a favour, point your 300 at a wall, then bring the iris down to F11 then pan left and right and see if you see anything. The lines are faint but if they're there you'll see them, but I do reckon this is just a problem with my camera. Any ideas what else in the camera it could be as the CCD block has just been replaced. Thanks guys. John.

March 26th, 2004, 10:26 AM	#7
John Steele Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 216	To make matters worse, I noticed a few dead pixels on screen with the new CCD block, all visible at 0db, the old CCD block had some but they were only visible at 36db or using a DPR mode, which I never ever do. So basically my camera has went for repair and came back worse than before it went. What a pain in the Butt this is. Off it goes again on Tuesday to have the original CCD block put back in and re-checked for the line problem. It better not come back any worse again. AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH John.

March 29th, 2004, 05:31 AM	#9
John Steele Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 216	Hi Mike, I've never heard the expression "bird-dog" before, can you explain :) Also I managed to get hold of a DSR-300 for a comparison, the 300 also had the lines but was worse than the 390, I've come to the conclusion that it must just be a characteristic of the camera but now I have a pixel problem that I could have avoided. ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH again. John.

March 31st, 2004, 01:32 PM	#11
John Steele Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 216	Hi Mike, I'm using PAL cameras so it may only be a PAL thing, but in normal shooting you probably won't see them, even when filming dark theatre, but the guy who owned the 300 had owned the cam for a couple of years and was surprised when I pointed the lines out. You can see them with the lens cap on, try it in a dark room with the brightness on your monitor turned up you might see it then, but looks like it's nothing to worry about. My camera is back to Sony today for them to check out the dead pixel, I must admit they have been good and quick taking the camera in and getting it back to me, but I only wish I'd done the comparison before I sent it the first time and I'd have saved myself some hassle. Oh well, we live and learn :) At least I feel like I'm getting my moneys worth by using Prime support :) John.