24P vs 24F? at DVinfo.net

Patrick Marte · May 7th, 2009, 12:59 AM

Hey,

I'm about 10 hours into my documentary using the Z7u (24p/1080i). I'd like to switch to a XH A1 I can get for free. I'm shooting mostly outdoors with just a few indoor interviews. I know there might a difference in color, but what about 24p vs 24f?

Thanks

Tripp Woelfel · May 7th, 2009, 03:59 AM

There's no practical difference between the two and there should be no technical reason why it wouldn't integrate with your Sony's footage.

Because the XH A1 uses an interlaced sensor, Canon elected not to call their 24 frame mode 24f.

Peter Moretti · May 7th, 2009, 04:09 AM

Tripp, I think you mean "elected to call" ;).

One thing that you should be aware of is that 24F is kind of the redheaded step child of HDV when it comes to NLE support.

FCP and Vegas seem to be able to capture it fine. But Premiere and Avid seem to barf on the timecode, so if your editing on one of those you will probably have to capture w/o timecode and have the NLE assign a new timecode.

The XH-A1 is also very tweakable in terms of color and other settings. So if you spend the time, you may be able to get very close to the Sony's footage. Or create a look that you like very much. Set to factory defaults, it the colors look a little flat, but that can be tweaked away.

Good luck, the camera takes truly amazing pictures :).

Tripp Woelfel · May 7th, 2009, 04:35 AM

Peter... Yeah, you're right. Only 1 cup of coffee thus far.

BTW... I have no problem with 24f timecode in Adobe CS3 and I use 24f a lot.

Patrick Marte · May 7th, 2009, 05:03 PM

Guys,

A million thanks! I'm getting ready to go out again and I just don't have the money to get the Z7u, so I needed some good news.
What I'll do is shoot some test footage and tweak the Canon. And I'm cutting on fcp, so I shouldn't have tc problems.

John S. Cooper · May 11th, 2009, 06:31 AM

It shouldn't be any difference between 24p and 24f

Chris Hurd · May 14th, 2009, 08:48 PM

There is no difference... 24F is indeed native 24p progressive scan.

Daniel Epstein · May 22nd, 2009, 01:52 PM

As I remember there is a difference in the way Sony records 24P compared to the way Canon records 24F. Canon was recording 24 Frames to tape while Sony was using 24 frames within a 60i datastream. Canon did this so they wouldn't waste data on duplicate frames. Older Sony decks could not play the Canon 24F 1080 footage while newer ones can. Canon started following the Sony Protocol with some cameras which recorded 24P but the XA and XH series were not among them. The little Canon camcorders could play back either form but didn't record in both forms.
In the end the result may be the same but the path from recording into computer and what settings you use may be a little more complex depending on the deck/camera/computer you use to edit and digitize.

May 7th, 2009, 12:59 AM	#1
Patrick Marte New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 11	24P vs 24F? Hey, I'm about 10 hours into my documentary using the Z7u (24p/1080i). I'd like to switch to a XH A1 I can get for free. I'm shooting mostly outdoors with just a few indoor interviews. I know there might a difference in color, but what about 24p vs 24f? Thanks

May 7th, 2009, 04:09 AM	#3
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Tripp, I think you mean "elected to call" ;). One thing that you should be aware of is that 24F is kind of the redheaded step child of HDV when it comes to NLE support. FCP and Vegas seem to be able to capture it fine. But Premiere and Avid seem to barf on the timecode, so if your editing on one of those you will probably have to capture w/o timecode and have the NLE assign a new timecode. The XH-A1 is also very tweakable in terms of color and other settings. So if you spend the time, you may be able to get very close to the Sony's footage. Or create a look that you like very much. Set to factory defaults, it the colors look a little flat, but that can be tweaked away. Good luck, the camera takes truly amazing pictures :). __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

May 14th, 2009, 08:48 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	There is no difference... 24F is indeed native 24p progressive scan. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2009, 03:59 AM	#2
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	There's no practical difference between the two and there should be no technical reason why it wouldn't integrate with your Sony's footage. Because the XH A1 uses an interlaced sensor, Canon elected not to call their 24 frame mode 24f.

May 7th, 2009, 04:35 AM	#4
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Peter... Yeah, you're right. Only 1 cup of coffee thus far. BTW... I have no problem with 24f timecode in Adobe CS3 and I use 24f a lot.

May 7th, 2009, 05:03 PM	#5
Patrick Marte New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 11	Guys, A million thanks! I'm getting ready to go out again and I just don't have the money to get the Z7u, so I needed some good news. What I'll do is shoot some test footage and tweak the Canon. And I'm cutting on fcp, so I shouldn't have tc problems.

May 11th, 2009, 06:31 AM	#6
John S. Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: London. GB Posts: 29	It shouldn't be any difference between 24p and 24f

May 22nd, 2009, 01:52 PM	#8
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	As I remember there is a difference in the way Sony records 24P compared to the way Canon records 24F. Canon was recording 24 Frames to tape while Sony was using 24 frames within a 60i datastream. Canon did this so they wouldn't waste data on duplicate frames. Older Sony decks could not play the Canon 24F 1080 footage while newer ones can. Canon started following the Sony Protocol with some cameras which recorded 24P but the XA and XH series were not among them. The little Canon camcorders could play back either form but didn't record in both forms. In the end the result may be the same but the path from recording into computer and what settings you use may be a little more complex depending on the deck/camera/computer you use to edit and digitize.