Only ONE file on my video drive and it's totaly fragmented? at DVinfo.net

Glen Elliott · April 6th, 2004, 08:24 AM

Captured a single small clip (totaling 1gig) on my dedicated video hardrive. Just for the heck of it I ran defrag on that disc and the graph is showing the block as all red, or ALL fragmented. Does anyone know why capturing a single video file on a practically empty hardrive would report the file to be completly fragmented? Oddly enough defrag didn't state I "needed" to defrag.

Michael Wisniewski · April 6th, 2004, 09:09 AM

Did you just delete everything on that drive? Perhaps the OS is holding the previous file allocation scheme in place just in case you decide to retrieve it from the Recycle/Trash Bin.

Imran Zaidi · April 6th, 2004, 09:22 AM

Yes, if the drive was just emptied through deletion and not through formatting, then sure, the OS will drop any new files into whatever slots it finds that don't interfere with slots that are being saved for recently deleted files, etc.

Whenever doing large scale deletion on a drive it's often a good idea to do a defrag right after, and before continuing use of the drive. Just keeps things running smoothly.

If, however, Glen, it was indeed a newly formatted drive and it still did that, then you got me - no idea why that would happen in that case.

Glen Elliott · April 6th, 2004, 10:17 AM

No oddly enough it's the second file I ever saved on it. I have 3 drives, 1 OS/Programs, 1 for media and images, and 1 for video. The video drive is completly empty accept an AVI from a recent commercial I finished. I captured some new footage, roughly 10 minutes worth. Another odd note is the from the left to right I saw a blue block and a larger red block adjacent to it. Once I defragged which took an inordinate amount of time judging from the amount of data on the drive it moved the large red (fragmented block) to the right leaving a large gap between the original blue block and the previously fragmented block. ????

Also notable when I was defragging it states the file it's currently moving (usually too fast to read...but slow enough if it's large files) and it stated "PD-170 TEST.avi (audio)". The avi was indeed named PD-170 Test but why the "audio" in parentheses? It was like it was ONLY moving the audio in the avi file- is that possible- avis are linked- both video and audio...right? I only figured I'd mention this because it spent a good 5+ minutes just on this file with the hardrive thrashing.

Michael Wisniewski · April 6th, 2004, 10:40 AM

You might want to confirm the physical disk isn't degrading.

I'd copy the file off the disk, do a full re-format, and see what happens when you copy it back.

If it keeps thrashing and splitting up files like you described, there might be some serious bad sectors on the disk.

* What OS and file system are you using with the hard disk?

Glen Elliott · April 6th, 2004, 12:13 PM

OS- Windows XP home. File system- NTFS

It's a brand new Maxtor 120gig SATA Diamond Max Plus 9. I have 3 of them- they are great.

It's not "spliting" up the files- at least according to the graph it isn't it is all one contiguoius chunk yet it's Red like the content of the chunk isn't all the same file.

Usually when I run defrag on my OS drive I have gaps AND red areas. This had no gaps just a big chunch on the left of the graph which was 2/3rds red.

Michael Wisniewski · April 6th, 2004, 01:48 PM

Whoops, sorry, didn't mean to sound the alarm.

But it sounds like it's working correctly. Not sure why it's doing it though.

Glen Elliott · April 6th, 2004, 01:57 PM

No prob- disc degregration could cause similar oddities in performance. I'll keep a close eye on the drive in the future to see if it continues to fragment new files to a freshly defragged drive.

George Ellis · April 6th, 2004, 03:59 PM

I have seen instances where the NLE creates a mess while capturing from FireWire. Not sure of the root case in the NLE though.

Rob Lohman · April 7th, 2004, 03:35 AM

The (audio) file should definitely be a different file. It could be
a peak file from your NLE. If you are not showing hidden files
then you might perhaps not see it. Which capture / NLE software
did you use? Or any other software on the file?

It's a bit weird it is fragmented indeed...

Glen Elliott · April 7th, 2004, 09:01 AM

I'm sorry Rob, I should have updated this thread as soon as I discovered. I found out the name of the clip was, indeed, "PD-170 first test (audio).avi". I didn't realize I put the "audio" text in the name. So apparently it was moving the entire AVI.

Now the only thing I can think of- I had a couple small files on the drive- is it a possibility that if there was a gap between them for any reason once I started capturing the long file it first filled the gap and the rest of it got relocated to the adjacent side of where the last file ended? In turn it would appear as a large red block beings it's a 1.7gig file. Better yet- if a file is fragmented at one point- as in only in two sections will the entire file show up as red?

Rob Lohman · April 8th, 2004, 03:38 AM

I believe the entire file will be red even if there is one little breakup
in the file.

Keep in mind, as others have pointed out, that by default when
you delete a file in Windows it is moved to the recycle bin (unless
the file is larger than your recycle space) and thus the sectors
the file is occupying are NOT released.

So a couple of files on your disk could definitely have such an
effect. If you hold down the SHIFT key while deleting the file
be deleted directly instead of moved to the recycle bin. Ofcourse
you can also clear the bin so that the files are permenantly
removed.

That should insure an unfragmented file.

April 6th, 2004, 08:24 AM	#1
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Only ONE file on my video drive and it's totaly fragmented? Captured a single small clip (totaling 1gig) on my dedicated video hardrive. Just for the heck of it I ran defrag on that disc and the graph is showing the block as all red, or ALL fragmented. Does anyone know why capturing a single video file on a practically empty hardrive would report the file to be completly fragmented? Oddly enough defrag didn't state I "needed" to defrag.

April 7th, 2004, 03:35 AM	#10
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	The (audio) file should definitely be a different file. It could be a peak file from your NLE. If you are not showing hidden files then you might perhaps not see it. Which capture / NLE software did you use? Or any other software on the file? It's a bit weird it is fragmented indeed... __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 8th, 2004, 03:38 AM	#12
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I believe the entire file will be red even if there is one little breakup in the file. Keep in mind, as others have pointed out, that by default when you delete a file in Windows it is moved to the recycle bin (unless the file is larger than your recycle space) and thus the sectors the file is occupying are NOT released. So a couple of files on your disk could definitely have such an effect. If you hold down the SHIFT key while deleting the file be deleted directly instead of moved to the recycle bin. Ofcourse you can also clear the bin so that the files are permenantly removed. That should insure an unfragmented file. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 6th, 2004, 09:09 AM	#2
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Did you just delete everything on that drive? Perhaps the OS is holding the previous file allocation scheme in place just in case you decide to retrieve it from the Recycle/Trash Bin.

April 6th, 2004, 09:22 AM	#3
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Yes, if the drive was just emptied through deletion and not through formatting, then sure, the OS will drop any new files into whatever slots it finds that don't interfere with slots that are being saved for recently deleted files, etc. Whenever doing large scale deletion on a drive it's often a good idea to do a defrag right after, and before continuing use of the drive. Just keeps things running smoothly. If, however, Glen, it was indeed a newly formatted drive and it still did that, then you got me - no idea why that would happen in that case.

April 6th, 2004, 10:17 AM	#4
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	No oddly enough it's the second file I ever saved on it. I have 3 drives, 1 OS/Programs, 1 for media and images, and 1 for video. The video drive is completly empty accept an AVI from a recent commercial I finished. I captured some new footage, roughly 10 minutes worth. Another odd note is the from the left to right I saw a blue block and a larger red block adjacent to it. Once I defragged which took an inordinate amount of time judging from the amount of data on the drive it moved the large red (fragmented block) to the right leaving a large gap between the original blue block and the previously fragmented block. ???? Also notable when I was defragging it states the file it's currently moving (usually too fast to read...but slow enough if it's large files) and it stated "PD-170 TEST.avi (audio)". The avi was indeed named PD-170 Test but why the "audio" in parentheses? It was like it was ONLY moving the audio in the avi file- is that possible- avis are linked- both video and audio...right? I only figured I'd mention this because it spent a good 5+ minutes just on this file with the hardrive thrashing.

April 6th, 2004, 10:40 AM	#5
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	You might want to confirm the physical disk isn't degrading. I'd copy the file off the disk, do a full re-format, and see what happens when you copy it back. If it keeps thrashing and splitting up files like you described, there might be some serious bad sectors on the disk. * What OS and file system are you using with the hard disk?

April 6th, 2004, 12:13 PM	#6
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	OS- Windows XP home. File system- NTFS It's a brand new Maxtor 120gig SATA Diamond Max Plus 9. I have 3 of them- they are great. It's not "spliting" up the files- at least according to the graph it isn't it is all one contiguoius chunk yet it's Red like the content of the chunk isn't all the same file. Usually when I run defrag on my OS drive I have gaps AND red areas. This had no gaps just a big chunch on the left of the graph which was 2/3rds red.

April 6th, 2004, 01:48 PM	#7
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Whoops, sorry, didn't mean to sound the alarm. But it sounds like it's working correctly. Not sure why it's doing it though.

April 6th, 2004, 01:57 PM	#8
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	No prob- disc degregration could cause similar oddities in performance. I'll keep a close eye on the drive in the future to see if it continues to fragment new files to a freshly defragged drive.

April 6th, 2004, 03:59 PM	#9
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	I have seen instances where the NLE creates a mess while capturing from FireWire. Not sure of the root case in the NLE though.

April 7th, 2004, 09:01 AM	#11
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I'm sorry Rob, I should have updated this thread as soon as I discovered. I found out the name of the clip was, indeed, "PD-170 first test (audio).avi". I didn't realize I put the "audio" text in the name. So apparently it was moving the entire AVI. Now the only thing I can think of- I had a couple small files on the drive- is it a possibility that if there was a gap between them for any reason once I started capturing the long file it first filled the gap and the rest of it got relocated to the adjacent side of where the last file ended? In turn it would appear as a large red block beings it's a 1.7gig file. Better yet- if a file is fragmented at one point- as in only in two sections will the entire file show up as red?