Movie Theatre formatting? at DVinfo.net

Gary Romel · October 5th, 2004, 08:15 PM

Does anyone know what format i need to render/shoot a 1 minute promo clip for to be used in a movie theatre?

I shot the material in widescreen mode with my canon GL2, but i have never been asked to make a clip useable for a theatre before?

Thanks in advance...

Gary R

PS: I am using adobe premiere pro, after effects, and encore...

Jesse Bekas · October 5th, 2004, 08:59 PM

These are just guesses, but...I would assume the clip would have to be changed to 24 fps progressive scan video (and then each frame would be transfered to film twice to be shown at 48 fps). That way it could be added to the promo reel, unless the theater has a digital projector.

BTW, Are you talking about a commercial type clip, or a movie trailer? I have seen 4:3 material in theater "commercials" before, but most trailers/teasers are shown in their respective film's native ratio.

Boyd Ostroff · October 6th, 2004, 06:53 AM

I'm guessing that they want to run his clip along with all those annoying ads that many theatres now show with a cheap video projector before the film. If so, then the main question would be whether they are using a 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio. If it's anamorphic 16:9 then you might want to run some test footage on the actual projector to see if it looks OK blown up. You're throwing away a lot of vertical resolution by shooting widescreen on a camera like the GL-2.

But if a theatre has asked you to shoot something Gary, then why not ask them what they want and ask if you can do a test, or at least get the specs on their projector?

Jesse Bekas · October 6th, 2004, 07:13 AM

Boyd, I think the footage has already been shot in the GL2's widesceen mode. Gary, you could always try to upres the footage, slightly sharpen it, and then downres it again to ad some fake resolution. It doesn't always look as terrible as it sounds.

Boyd is right. The GL2 widescreen throws away a lot of resolution. If possible, next time shoot with an anmorphic adapter, or keep it in 4:3 for shooting and crop it in post if you have to.

Give the theater a ring and see what they want. I'm curious to know.

Gary Romel · October 6th, 2004, 07:57 AM

"I'm guessing that they want to run his clip along with all those annoying ads that many theatres now show with a cheap video projector before the film"

This is true, its a 1 minute promo clip for a nightclub....

"But if a theatre has asked you to shoot something Gary, then why not ask them what they want "

Ive been asked by the club to do the clip, and I have been trying and trying to get ahold of someone at the theatre. Its a new theatre and is not open yet. But at least now ill know where to start with the questions....

Yes, the footage has been shot in widescreen mode, but I can always re-film if I have to.

" you could always try to upres the footage, slightly sharpen it, and then downres it again to ad some fake resolutio"

How do you "upres the footage" , and downres again? Forgive my complete newbie-ness :)

Ill look into the anamorphic adapter, and hopefully ill get ahold of the theatre soon. All else fails, Ill have to reshoot with the adapter, or keep 4:3 and crop in post to make it look widescreen like Jesse said.

Boyd Ostroff · October 6th, 2004, 09:09 AM

Most of the "annoying ads" I've seen were regular 4:3...

Gary Romel · October 6th, 2004, 09:21 AM

Ok, so lets assume for the moment, until I find out for sure that I can use 4:3 format.

So I would change it to 24 fps progressive scan video by rendering it with premiere pro?

Then each frame would be transfered to film twice to be shown at 48 fps?- How would this be done? Would I just give the theatre a DVD with the MPEG2 of the clip at 24 fps progressive scan and let them do the rest?

Joshua Starnes · October 6th, 2004, 11:00 AM

(and then each frame would be transfered to film twice to be shown at 48 fps).

That's not exactly correct - they don't print the frames twice, they just print the once. However, the shutter on the projecter is built in such a way that it can flash the same frame twice a second before advancing it out of the gate.

It's not really moving at 48 fps, it's moving at 24 fps, it's just that each frame is flashed twice.

And if it's for a large scale theater chain, like AMC or Cinemark, they will probably have a small projector for showing commercials already, and there won't be a need to transfer it to film.

Boyd Ostroff · October 6th, 2004, 01:14 PM

Unless you have a native 24p camera I don't think it makes any sense to do a conversion. I'd just shoot the best quality video my camera could provide, then sit tight until they give you some tech info. You can do any needed post processing as a final step. Maybe it will make the most sense to letterbox your existing footage? Seems there are too many unknowns to make an intelligent decision.

As far as the DVD, I wouldn't do that for final output unless that's what they want. The compression is going to downgrade the image quality and you don't want that on a big screen. You might do a DVD just as a demo for the purpose of showing it to them. But I'm guessing somebody edits all those commericals together and then either burns a DVD or a tape... or maybe it plays off a hard drive on a laptop for all I know??? You really need much more specific tech data from the theatre.

Gary Romel · October 6th, 2004, 01:41 PM

Ok,

I just got off the phone with the theatre rep. They want it in Anamorphic 16:9 on a digibeta, betacam, or she said DVD would be acceptable (since I dont have digibeta). She did say MPEG 2 format, and that they send the clip off to Kodak for processing, so to do as little compression as possilbe, and kodak should take care of the rest. She also wants a copy on VHS so it can be approved for viewing.

Letterboxed is not acceptable she said...

So I guess I need to get that anamorphic lens?

G

Jesse Bekas · October 6th, 2004, 03:20 PM

Thanks for correcting me on the projector shutter, Josh. You learn something new everyday. I'm assuming Kodak is going to do a transfer...so re-shoot in 60i Anamorphic. I want to know why Kodak would rather have the footage in MPEG2, than DV25 for the transfer. Won't there be image degradation to the footage in that conversion?

October 5th, 2004, 08:15 PM	#1
Gary Romel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 14	Movie Theatre formatting? Does anyone know what format i need to render/shoot a 1 minute promo clip for to be used in a movie theatre? I shot the material in widescreen mode with my canon GL2, but i have never been asked to make a clip useable for a theatre before? Thanks in advance... Gary R PS: I am using adobe premiere pro, after effects, and encore...

October 6th, 2004, 09:21 AM	#7
Gary Romel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 14	hmm Ok, so lets assume for the moment, until I find out for sure that I can use 4:3 format. So I would change it to 24 fps progressive scan video by rendering it with premiere pro? Then each frame would be transfered to film twice to be shown at 48 fps?- How would this be done? Would I just give the theatre a DVD with the MPEG2 of the clip at 24 fps progressive scan and let them do the rest?

October 6th, 2004, 01:41 PM	#10
Gary Romel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 14	got more info Ok, I just got off the phone with the theatre rep. They want it in Anamorphic 16:9 on a digibeta, betacam, or she said DVD would be acceptable (since I dont have digibeta). She did say MPEG 2 format, and that they send the clip off to Kodak for processing, so to do as little compression as possilbe, and kodak should take care of the rest. She also wants a copy on VHS so it can be approved for viewing. Letterboxed is not acceptable she said... So I guess I need to get that anamorphic lens? G

October 5th, 2004, 08:59 PM	#2
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	These are just guesses, but...I would assume the clip would have to be changed to 24 fps progressive scan video (and then each frame would be transfered to film twice to be shown at 48 fps). That way it could be added to the promo reel, unless the theater has a digital projector. BTW, Are you talking about a commercial type clip, or a movie trailer? I have seen 4:3 material in theater "commercials" before, but most trailers/teasers are shown in their respective film's native ratio.

October 6th, 2004, 06:53 AM	#3
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I'm guessing that they want to run his clip along with all those annoying ads that many theatres now show with a cheap video projector before the film. If so, then the main question would be whether they are using a 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio. If it's anamorphic 16:9 then you might want to run some test footage on the actual projector to see if it looks OK blown up. You're throwing away a lot of vertical resolution by shooting widescreen on a camera like the GL-2. But if a theatre has asked you to shoot something Gary, then why not ask them what they want and ask if you can do a test, or at least get the specs on their projector?

October 6th, 2004, 07:13 AM	#4
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Boyd, I think the footage has already been shot in the GL2's widesceen mode. Gary, you could always try to upres the footage, slightly sharpen it, and then downres it again to ad some fake resolution. It doesn't always look as terrible as it sounds. Boyd is right. The GL2 widescreen throws away a lot of resolution. If possible, next time shoot with an anmorphic adapter, or keep it in 4:3 for shooting and crop it in post if you have to. Give the theater a ring and see what they want. I'm curious to know.

October 6th, 2004, 07:57 AM	#5
Gary Romel New Boot Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 14	"I'm guessing that they want to run his clip along with all those annoying ads that many theatres now show with a cheap video projector before the film" This is true, its a 1 minute promo clip for a nightclub.... "But if a theatre has asked you to shoot something Gary, then why not ask them what they want " Ive been asked by the club to do the clip, and I have been trying and trying to get ahold of someone at the theatre. Its a new theatre and is not open yet. But at least now ill know where to start with the questions.... Yes, the footage has been shot in widescreen mode, but I can always re-film if I have to. " you could always try to upres the footage, slightly sharpen it, and then downres it again to ad some fake resolutio" How do you "upres the footage" , and downres again? Forgive my complete newbie-ness :) Ill look into the anamorphic adapter, and hopefully ill get ahold of the theatre soon. All else fails, Ill have to reshoot with the adapter, or keep 4:3 and crop in post to make it look widescreen like Jesse said.

October 6th, 2004, 09:09 AM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Most of the "annoying ads" I've seen were regular 4:3...

October 6th, 2004, 11:00 AM	#8
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	(and then each frame would be transfered to film twice to be shown at 48 fps). That's not exactly correct - they don't print the frames twice, they just print the once. However, the shutter on the projecter is built in such a way that it can flash the same frame twice a second before advancing it out of the gate. It's not really moving at 48 fps, it's moving at 24 fps, it's just that each frame is flashed twice. And if it's for a large scale theater chain, like AMC or Cinemark, they will probably have a small projector for showing commercials already, and there won't be a need to transfer it to film.

October 6th, 2004, 01:14 PM	#9
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Unless you have a native 24p camera I don't think it makes any sense to do a conversion. I'd just shoot the best quality video my camera could provide, then sit tight until they give you some tech info. You can do any needed post processing as a final step. Maybe it will make the most sense to letterbox your existing footage? Seems there are too many unknowns to make an intelligent decision. As far as the DVD, I wouldn't do that for final output unless that's what they want. The compression is going to downgrade the image quality and you don't want that on a big screen. You might do a DVD just as a demo for the purpose of showing it to them. But I'm guessing somebody edits all those commericals together and then either burns a DVD or a tape... or maybe it plays off a hard drive on a laptop for all I know??? You really need much more specific tech data from the theatre.

October 6th, 2004, 03:20 PM	#11
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Thanks for correcting me on the projector shutter, Josh. You learn something new everyday. I'm assuming Kodak is going to do a transfer...so re-shoot in 60i Anamorphic. I want to know why Kodak would rather have the footage in MPEG2, than DV25 for the transfer. Won't there be image degradation to the footage in that conversion?