filming older women at DVinfo.net

Raus Moore · October 27th, 2004, 09:08 AM

Does anyone know anything about how to light older women and make them look good on video? I will be filming a show soon, the woman will probably be standing behind a podium talking and the longest shot will be from the waist up...

We are just going to try playing with lights and figure it out, but any pointers will be great... We will probably shoot with two cameras( VX-2000s)

Thanks alot,
Raus

George Ellis · October 27th, 2004, 09:32 AM

I saw a demo using a gold reflector for the fill-in. It gives a 'tan' to the talent. You can also use a Soft-FX filter. I have .5 that I use for 'wedding' style footage. The Soft-FX smooths the skin and reduces blemishes. Like airbrushing live.

Richard Alvarez · October 27th, 2004, 09:57 AM

One word

Pro-Mist

(Is that one word?) So, basically soft lite from the front to hide the wrinkles, a bit of frost in a filter, and nice sparkly hilights to the hair.

Mike Moncrief · October 27th, 2004, 10:01 AM

Hello,

I know in Photography you should use a reflector that will bounce light that will be toward the front of them (you can be off to the left or right of them to clear your camera view) and the light should be bounced up so it hits them in the neck area and face.. this can soften the neck area, which can be one of the sure signs of age.. Also if possible use diffused light from a softbox type light or from an umbrella..

Mike M.

Raus Moore · October 28th, 2004, 02:01 PM

Thanks for all the ideas.. The suggestions will help a lot. Before we shoot, we'll probably just have a day of experimentation just to see what works, so I'll try anything....

Raus
www.zendik.org

Jeff Donald · October 28th, 2004, 02:54 PM

How old are you talking?

Mike Rehmus · October 28th, 2004, 09:32 PM

If you can borrow or rent any of the recent or current Sony pro cameras, they all have a flesh-tone detector that, when it is set to the person's flesh tone, softens the focus just in those areas.

The effect is controllable and you can make them look like the Pillsbury Dough Boy if you take it to extremes. Used properly (and many TV stations use this) it does wonders.

Lorinda Norton · October 28th, 2004, 10:38 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : If you can borrow or rent any of the recent or current Sony pro cameras, they all have a flesh-tone detector that, when it is set to the person's flesh tone, softens the focus just in those areas. -->>>

Hi Mike,

I'd save money from buying anti-wrinkle products if everyone had to wear glasses that had such a detector built in. :)

Raus,
We worked with a 65 year-old lady whose skin was pretty weathered and wrinkled. Besides the bounced light mentioned earlier, we used a subtle pin light that accented the color of her eyes. It drew attention there instead of the wrinkles, and she was happy.

Don Donatello · October 29th, 2004, 07:06 PM

when you say older are you seeing wrinkles -lines ?

men with wrinkles add 'character" to the face so one can use some type of side lighting to accent the "character"

HOWEVER !!! women do not like this type of "character" showing = avoid side lighting ... move the key light around to the front area ... add #216 or double silk or equal type diffusion to the light ... use bounce fill .... add a eye light ( opal diffusion) above the camera ( adds sparkel to eyes and fills in wrinkles ) ..

if that doesn't work then put a 2-5k fresnel light ( heavy diffusion) right above the camera lens axis ... then use double nets ( create butterfly effect) to take some light off cloths, hair.. use solids to keep light off podium , walls .... that should fill all wrinkles ...

Mike Rehmus · October 30th, 2004, 12:56 PM

Yes, that's why some people think those shots from the nightclub where the photographer blasts them straight in the face are 'great' shots. The face-on lighting tends to erase wrinkles.

One can use something like After Effects and make a mask for the face area and soften the focus just in that area. But do make certain you put holes in the mask for the eyes so they are sharp.

Wayne Orr · October 30th, 2004, 08:19 PM

If you want to "do it in post," look up a product called 55mm at http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/html/55mm_prod.html
They have a good skin detail filter that works quite well, if you are willing to take the render hit, and pay for the software, of course.

I definitely see the day when most filtration is done in post. More control, options, etc.

That ought to stir things up.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Raus Moore · November 1st, 2004, 03:37 PM

I would have never thought of the pin light for the eyes on my own, that's an interesting idea... And as far as the flesh tone feature on a camera.. I use a Sony VX-2000, and I don't think it's got it, unless I'm missing something.. But I guess that camera is a not quite pro cam.. It seems like in general most of you guys are saying use soft light, and the eye light..

Oh yeah, and the woman is late 60's.. I think she is 68. And one of the features she worries about most is her chin and the skin underneath her chin...

Thanks,
Raus

Mike Rehmus · November 1st, 2004, 10:45 PM

Wayne is right. IF you can do it in post, do it there. For this assignment, I'd have After Effects or Edius out and doing some serious smoothing inside a mask of her face (except the eyes). Maybe several masks treating different areas differently.

Boyd Ostroff · November 2nd, 2004, 08:52 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : The face-on lighting tends to erase wrinkles. -->>>

This is the tradition in theatrical lighting as well. A follow spot gives you the frontal lighting, and footlights provide a glow that helps fill in the shadows of any wrinkles. Needless to say, makeup is also very important....

Raus Moore · November 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM

Just as an addition, I learned today that it's not the actual wrinkles that don't look good.. But the sagging of the skin that happens with age.. Arol, the 68 year old woman we will be filming soon told me this today... So you don't have to hide the wrinkles, but the shadows caused by sagging cheeks and chin...

Raus

October 27th, 2004, 09:08 AM	#1
Raus Moore New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Marlinton, West Virginia Posts: 5	filming older women Does anyone know anything about how to light older women and make them look good on video? I will be filming a show soon, the woman will probably be standing behind a podium talking and the longest shot will be from the waist up... We are just going to try playing with lights and figure it out, but any pointers will be great... We will probably shoot with two cameras( VX-2000s) Thanks alot, Raus

October 27th, 2004, 10:01 AM	#4
Mike Moncrief Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: orlando florida Posts: 426	Hello, I know in Photography you should use a reflector that will bounce light that will be toward the front of them (you can be off to the left or right of them to clear your camera view) and the light should be bounced up so it hits them in the neck area and face.. this can soften the neck area, which can be one of the sure signs of age.. Also if possible use diffused light from a softbox type light or from an umbrella.. Mike M. __________________ Mike Moncrief mikemoncrief@gmail.com www.themikemoncrief.com

October 28th, 2004, 02:01 PM	#5
Raus Moore New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Marlinton, West Virginia Posts: 5	Good ideas Thanks for all the ideas.. The suggestions will help a lot. Before we shoot, we'll probably just have a day of experimentation just to see what works, so I'll try anything.... Raus www.zendik.org

October 28th, 2004, 02:54 PM	#6
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	How old are you talking? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 28th, 2004, 09:32 PM	#7
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	If you can borrow or rent any of the recent or current Sony pro cameras, they all have a flesh-tone detector that, when it is set to the person's flesh tone, softens the focus just in those areas. The effect is controllable and you can make them look like the Pillsbury Dough Boy if you take it to extremes. Used properly (and many TV stations use this) it does wonders. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 27th, 2004, 09:32 AM	#2
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	I saw a demo using a gold reflector for the fill-in. It gives a 'tan' to the talent. You can also use a Soft-FX filter. I have .5 that I use for 'wedding' style footage. The Soft-FX smooths the skin and reduces blemishes. Like airbrushing live.

October 27th, 2004, 09:57 AM	#3
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	One word Pro-Mist (Is that one word?) So, basically soft lite from the front to hide the wrinkles, a bit of frost in a filter, and nice sparkly hilights to the hair.

October 28th, 2004, 10:38 PM	#8
Lorinda Norton Wrangler Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southwest Idaho, USA Posts: 3,066	<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : If you can borrow or rent any of the recent or current Sony pro cameras, they all have a flesh-tone detector that, when it is set to the person's flesh tone, softens the focus just in those areas. -->>> Hi Mike, I'd save money from buying anti-wrinkle products if everyone had to wear glasses that had such a detector built in. :) Raus, We worked with a 65 year-old lady whose skin was pretty weathered and wrinkled. Besides the bounced light mentioned earlier, we used a subtle pin light that accented the color of her eyes. It drew attention there instead of the wrinkles, and she was happy. __________________ Lorinda

October 29th, 2004, 07:06 PM	#9
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	when you say older are you seeing wrinkles -lines ? men with wrinkles add 'character" to the face so one can use some type of side lighting to accent the "character" HOWEVER !!! women do not like this type of "character" showing = avoid side lighting ... move the key light around to the front area ... add #216 or double silk or equal type diffusion to the light ... use bounce fill .... add a eye light ( opal diffusion) above the camera ( adds sparkel to eyes and fills in wrinkles ) .. if that doesn't work then put a 2-5k fresnel light ( heavy diffusion) right above the camera lens axis ... then use double nets ( create butterfly effect) to take some light off cloths, hair.. use solids to keep light off podium , walls .... that should fill all wrinkles ...

October 30th, 2004, 12:56 PM	#10
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Yes, that's why some people think those shots from the nightclub where the photographer blasts them straight in the face are 'great' shots. The face-on lighting tends to erase wrinkles. One can use something like After Effects and make a mask for the face area and soften the focus just in that area. But do make certain you put holes in the mask for the eyes so they are sharp. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

October 30th, 2004, 08:19 PM	#11
Wayne Orr Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northridge Ca Posts: 734	If you want to "do it in post," look up a product called 55mm at http://www.digitalfilmtools.com/html/55mm_prod.html They have a good skin detail filter that works quite well, if you are willing to take the render hit, and pay for the software, of course. I definitely see the day when most filtration is done in post. More control, options, etc. That ought to stir things up. Wayne Orr, SOC

November 1st, 2004, 03:37 PM	#12
Raus Moore New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Marlinton, West Virginia Posts: 5	Interesting ideas I would have never thought of the pin light for the eyes on my own, that's an interesting idea... And as far as the flesh tone feature on a camera.. I use a Sony VX-2000, and I don't think it's got it, unless I'm missing something.. But I guess that camera is a not quite pro cam.. It seems like in general most of you guys are saying use soft light, and the eye light.. Oh yeah, and the woman is late 60's.. I think she is 68. And one of the features she worries about most is her chin and the skin underneath her chin... Thanks, Raus

November 1st, 2004, 10:45 PM	#13
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Wayne is right. IF you can do it in post, do it there. For this assignment, I'd have After Effects or Edius out and doing some serious smoothing inside a mask of her face (except the eyes). Maybe several masks treating different areas differently. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 2nd, 2004, 08:52 AM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Rehmus : The face-on lighting tends to erase wrinkles. -->>> This is the tradition in theatrical lighting as well. A follow spot gives you the frontal lighting, and footlights provide a glow that helps fill in the shadows of any wrinkles. Needless to say, makeup is also very important....

November 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM	#15
Raus Moore New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Marlinton, West Virginia Posts: 5	wrinkles.... Just as an addition, I learned today that it's not the actual wrinkles that don't look good.. But the sagging of the skin that happens with age.. Arol, the 68 year old woman we will be filming soon told me this today... So you don't have to hide the wrinkles, but the shadows caused by sagging cheeks and chin... Raus