for broadcast tv? at DVinfo.net

Graham Morton · April 3rd, 2005, 01:06 PM

Can anyone shoot me in a direction towards where to find editing and timing sequences for broadcast? Time for video ins/outs and audio and what lengths for commercial breaks etc. Also how to deliver... I know it depends on format but is there a standard.

Rob Lohman · April 4th, 2005, 04:12 AM

I've moved your thread to our "general" forum since the dv for
the masses forum is to showcase work you've created.

Shane Ross · April 4th, 2005, 01:30 PM

Graham...there is no standard. Each network has it's own set of requirements. Some require 30 sec blacks between acts, some only 1. Some require 44:20 for hourlong shows, some 43:30. Half hour shows could range from 22:30 to 23:45.

Some have VERY STRICT guidelines as to what frame the commercial break must start on (:00 frame for The Discovery Channel, with between :15 and 1:15 of black in between the last frame of picture and the commercial break start to attain the :00 frame. Complicated, I know).

SOme have very high standards in the quality of the picture...over 100 IRE by 1 point, and it gets kicked back. Others allow for white to get as bright as 105 IRE before they complain.

Since there is no standard, you need to contact the network that you will be working with for their Broadcast Specs.

Graham Morton · April 4th, 2005, 09:45 PM

Thanks Shane... thats kinda what I had figured all along but didn't know absolutely. Other than the networks themselves is there any place to look for general guidelines, like maybe someone elses experience?

Nick Jushchyshyn · April 5th, 2005, 08:44 AM

As a related question...

What "office" or contact point is best to ask for when contacting a station or network? (In regards to inquiring about video specs and formats for broadcast ads)
Ad sales?
Some kind of technical or production dept.?

Shane Ross · April 5th, 2005, 11:04 AM

Don't call Ad sales...they won't have the slightest clue.

The engineering department is your best bet...if you are going to be talking to a local TV station. If you are going to be talking to a nation-side network, whoever your contact is there should provide it for you. Those specs come from the engineers...

Jeremy Davidson · April 5th, 2005, 12:38 PM

I've heard things about putting 60 seconds of bars and tone at the beginning of the tape, along with a countdown to the show itself. Does this have to coincide with the timecode on the tape, or is it good enough to just have an accurate countdown? For example, if you have 60 seconds of bars and 10 seconds of countdown, does the show have to start at timecode 00:01:10:00?

Since the show will likely be submitted on BetaSP, is timecode even an issue? (I'm too poor to own any Beta equipment myself, so I don't know if it even supports timecode.)

I'm half-expecting this to be another "check-with-the-station" question, but what's typical?

Shane Ross · April 5th, 2005, 01:08 PM

OK...here are the generic specs for setting up a tape:

Time code on the tape should start at 58;00;00.
Bars & tone (-20db) for :60 starting at 58;30;00
:10 black
:05 slate at 59;40;00
Countdown starting at 59;50;00 that counts down to "2", ending at 59;58;00 (this part is optional. I have only worked on one show that required a countdown. Most broadcast TV does not)
1;00;00;00 picture start.

From here the specs deviate...1 second black between acts, or 30 seconds...no act less than 6:00, some take them less than 5:00...show durations differ from network to network. I have seen hour long shows range from 42:45 to 44:30 and half hours range from 22:30 to 23:45.

Half hour shows are usually broken into 2-3 acts...hour long shows have 5-6 acts.

Glenn Chan · April 6th, 2005, 12:05 AM

Audio levels differ depending on which format you're coming from and going to.

Dubbing from DV to betaSP: Watch out for 7.5IRE setup if you are using consumer/prosumer equipment. On professional equipment, set your equipment to use 7.5IRE setup if they are switchable.

2- One thing you could do is to explicitly print all the information about your master's formatting on a label. Where tone is, where slate is, how much black, and what audio levels are at. I haven't tried it but presumably it makes it less likely they will screw things up.

April 3rd, 2005, 01:06 PM	#1
Graham Morton Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 35	for broadcast tv? Can anyone shoot me in a direction towards where to find editing and timing sequences for broadcast? Time for video ins/outs and audio and what lengths for commercial breaks etc. Also how to deliver... I know it depends on format but is there a standard.

April 4th, 2005, 04:12 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I've moved your thread to our "general" forum since the dv for the masses forum is to showcase work you've created. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 4th, 2005, 09:45 PM	#4
Graham Morton Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 35	thanks Thanks Shane... thats kinda what I had figured all along but didn't know absolutely. Other than the networks themselves is there any place to look for general guidelines, like maybe someone elses experience?

April 5th, 2005, 12:38 PM	#7
Jeremy Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 167	I've heard things about putting 60 seconds of bars and tone at the beginning of the tape, along with a countdown to the show itself. Does this have to coincide with the timecode on the tape, or is it good enough to just have an accurate countdown? For example, if you have 60 seconds of bars and 10 seconds of countdown, does the show have to start at timecode 00:01:10:00? Since the show will likely be submitted on BetaSP, is timecode even an issue? (I'm too poor to own any Beta equipment myself, so I don't know if it even supports timecode.) I'm half-expecting this to be another "check-with-the-station" question, but what's typical? __________________ There's no way for you to know if what I'm saying is true unless you know what the truth is, and there's no way for you to know what the truth is unless there is a truth that you can know. -- Frank Peretti

April 4th, 2005, 01:30 PM	#3
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Graham...there is no standard. Each network has it's own set of requirements. Some require 30 sec blacks between acts, some only 1. Some require 44:20 for hourlong shows, some 43:30. Half hour shows could range from 22:30 to 23:45. Some have VERY STRICT guidelines as to what frame the commercial break must start on (:00 frame for The Discovery Channel, with between :15 and 1:15 of black in between the last frame of picture and the commercial break start to attain the :00 frame. Complicated, I know). SOme have very high standards in the quality of the picture...over 100 IRE by 1 point, and it gets kicked back. Others allow for white to get as bright as 105 IRE before they complain. Since there is no standard, you need to contact the network that you will be working with for their Broadcast Specs.

April 5th, 2005, 08:44 AM	#5
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	As a related question... What "office" or contact point is best to ask for when contacting a station or network? (In regards to inquiring about video specs and formats for broadcast ads) Ad sales? Some kind of technical or production dept.?

April 5th, 2005, 11:04 AM	#6
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	Don't call Ad sales...they won't have the slightest clue. The engineering department is your best bet...if you are going to be talking to a local TV station. If you are going to be talking to a nation-side network, whoever your contact is there should provide it for you. Those specs come from the engineers...

April 5th, 2005, 01:08 PM	#8
Shane Ross Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles, USA Posts: 539	OK...here are the generic specs for setting up a tape: Time code on the tape should start at 58;00;00. Bars & tone (-20db) for :60 starting at 58;30;00 :10 black :05 slate at 59;40;00 Countdown starting at 59;50;00 that counts down to "2", ending at 59;58;00 (this part is optional. I have only worked on one show that required a countdown. Most broadcast TV does not) 1;00;00;00 picture start. From here the specs deviate...1 second black between acts, or 30 seconds...no act less than 6:00, some take them less than 5:00...show durations differ from network to network. I have seen hour long shows range from 42:45 to 44:30 and half hours range from 22:30 to 23:45. Half hour shows are usually broken into 2-3 acts...hour long shows have 5-6 acts.

April 6th, 2005, 12:05 AM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Audio levels differ depending on which format you're coming from and going to. Dubbing from DV to betaSP: Watch out for 7.5IRE setup if you are using consumer/prosumer equipment. On professional equipment, set your equipment to use 7.5IRE setup if they are switchable. 2- One thing you could do is to explicitly print all the information about your master's formatting on a label. Where tone is, where slate is, how much black, and what audio levels are at. I haven't tried it but presumably it makes it less likely they will screw things up.