Now that the AG DVX100 is out, why would you ever consider the XL1s or PD-150?

[David Nussbaum]

I mean, wouldn't they make the AG-DVX100 better in anyway they could, since they knew what to do for the competition since it came out quite awhile after the other 2 kings?

NOTE: This is a post of ignorance, which i want to CHANGE. I dont mean like "WHY WOULD YOU EVER GET THAT!!! HURRR!!!!"

i mean "what are the disadvantages to getting one, etc."

thank you

[Paul Sedillo]

<<<-- Originally posted by Davidnssbm : I mean, wouldn't they make the AG-DVX100 better in anyway they could, since they knew what to do for the competition since it came out quite awhile after the other 2 kings?

NOTE: This is a post of ignorance, which i want to CHANGE. I dont mean like "WHY WOULD YOU EVER GET THAT!!! HURRR!!!!"

i mean "what are the disadvantages to getting one, etc."

thank you -->>>

You beat me to posting the same exact question.

My situation is this, I am about to be awarded several new projects that will require a high quality image. Not to say that my ol'XL1s isn't quality! I've narrowed the choices down to buying (2) Panasonic AG-DVX100's or going with the P&S Technik adapter. Yes I understand the merits of both, but it appears that I would be getting more bang for the buck with the 2 AG's. The 24P option is of great appeal to me (maybe I am answering my own question!), but I love the images that Justin C. has produced with his rig (P&S Technik).

Any info, input, suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[David Nussbaum]

yeah, I want the best possible image I can get with these cameras. now I know alot of that is in the SKILL of using the cameras, and that is something i plan to MASTER. So I might as well buy one that will give me the best bang for my buck. I mean, once I buy one, that's it. It's not like I can afford two cameras, like owning a PS2 and Gamecube to get the best of both worlds.

[Chris Hurd]

Well, the important thing is to recognize the differences in feature sets, such as the modularity of the XL1S design. The XL1S is primarily intended for those who need the interchangeable components of lenses, viewfinders, etc. whereas the DVX100 is an all-in-one solution.

For example, the XL1S with 16x manual lens provides a much greater degree of control than the DVX100. Although the DVX100 displays an arbitrary value for focal plane distance, the method it employs is not a conventional system. However, the 16x manual lens is marked with traditional distance settings for achieving accurate rack-focus moves with speed and precision.

This is only one of a number of possible examples describing the differences between these cameras.

You're only cheating yourself if you get hung up on superlatives such as "best," "newest," etc. Instead, carefully weigh the differences and similarities. For instance some people don't need 24p for what they're doing. By all means, try before you buy... in my world that's the single most important thing you can do.

[Paul Sedillo]

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : You're only cheating yourself if you get hung up on superlatives such as "best," "newest," etc. Instead, carefully weigh the differences and similarities. For instance some people don't need 24p for what they're doing. By all means, try before you buy... in my world that's the single most important thing you can do. -->>>

So very true. I am waiting for Pro Tape (Houston) to get one in stock. That way I can kick the proverbial tires and see what she's got.

The 24p thing is important, which is why I am considering it. As for the modularity of the XL1s, I very much like this attribute. That is why I am also considering the P&S Technik rig. It is to bad that the closest rental shop with a P&S unit is in Dallas. It looks like I will have to take a ride up there and check it out. Dropping this kind of dough, I want to make sure I get the best tool for the job!

[Chris Hurd]

Craig Chartier of GEAR in Austin was seriously considering adding the P+S Technik adapter to his DV rental arsenal, so you may not have to drive as far.

[Jeff Donald]

Paul,

You've got a Mac. Have you considered Magic Bullet? Martin Munthe (member) has posted some great looking grabs he's done with Magic Bullet. You can get info about it here

http://www.theorphanage.com/

I think it sells for about a grand. The images I've seen Martin post rival Justin's with the P & S unit. They are just screen grabs, so it's hard to say how close they actually are. Magic bullet might be an alternative to new cameras or rentals, in the short term. I think Canon will have a replacement out for the XL1s in a year or a little less.

Jeff

[Paul Sedillo]

Chris,

Any idea when he might get the P&S gear? Going to Austin is a heck of a lot better for me vs. heading up to Dallas.

Jeff,

I have looked at Magic Bullet before and would love to give it a go. The only problem is that I don't have After Effects and I have a major investment in Boris Red.

My plan for this year was to aquire an additional camera (or two). So getting the Panasonic would fit into this scheme. Now the P&S was not something that I had considered. After talking with Jim (a recent P&S buyer) from New York and reading the posts here, I've become interested in what it has to offer.

Back to the MB product, it would be a great addition to my tool box. The cost of two Panasonic AG-DVX100's and the addition of After Effects w/Magic Bullet might be the way to go.

Opinions, thoughts, ideas, casting of stones....

[Nathan Gifford]

One of the answers about DVX I have yet to get a definative response id whether the cam shoots in true 16:9 (that means the CCDs are 16:9) or the lens just has a native anamorphic mode. If it does have true 16:9 CCDs that makes it a pretty good contender.

True 24P would be a long term assest. However, for now I do not have any 24 FPS projects envisioned. I do not know of anyone with HDTV other than Sears and Circuit City though I realize that will change in the to come.

Then you need to consider the modularity of the XL-1. If the XL-1 lens system will support future native 16:9, *AND* Canon keeps everything compatible for the XL-2 (Chris remember your XL-2 interview with Canon...they said they would come out with a XL-2 when they went HD) then an investment in the XL-1 looks pretty good.

[Chris Hurd]

Paul

Give Craig a call at GEAR and see if he has that P+S unit yet...

Nathan

The AG-DVX100 most assuredly does *not* have native 16x9 CCD's. The *only* cameras having native 16x9 CCD's are certain expensive 2/3rd-inch cameras, such as the Panasonic AJ-D610, JVC GY-DV700, and Sony DSR-500, about $10,000 plus for body alone. Currently there is no such thing as native 16x9 in any camera with CCD's smaller than 2/3rd-inch. Hope this helps,

[Nathan Gifford]

Chris I was pretty darn sure that was the correct answer, thanks. However, does anyone know if it includes an anamorphic lens?

I wish you still had the Real file from NAB99 where Canon talks about the XL2. I know its dated, but interesting at least from a historical perspective.

[Adrian van der Park]

I'm not about to toss out all my very good XL-1 gear.

The issue I have with the Panasonic DVX100 is that it is still fairly expensive, not true 16:9, and still has the nasty 5:1 DV compression and 4:1:1 colour. Pony up a bit more cash and I can get into used Super16mm. And no one here can argue that DV has a better finished look than film. (I work at a vfx facility i.e. Rainmaker Digital Pictures, with a full blown film lab so prints are cheap for me :)

The XL-1 and manual lens (and follow focus device) are a killer setup. I always shoot in 60i. I can always regress images back to 30p perfectly in aftereffects sharper than the internal 30p in camera. And when I run the footage thru the Sierra at work, I can get 24p with no torn frames. We have done blowups from a number of cameras and the XL-1 with manual lens and good DP and colourist can be close as one can get to a dead ringer for 16mm. The only counterpart is the PD150, but it's glass is inferior to canon's and has more chromatic abberations.

I think that Canon will see what Pany has done, and improve upon it, so I'm not in a rush to ditch my equipment, despite this mad rush of people dumping their XL-1's for an unproven setup. (That's good for me 'cause I can pick up extra lenses and doo-dads supercheap right now).

What do I think Canon will do? Progressive variable frames: 24p, 30p, 60i. (This is probably the most cost effective thing for them to do and provide enough incentive for people to buy new gear) Also have hardwired XLR adapters, more gamma and gain controls, and multi user defined presets, all in same form factor. It will be a new body that will just replace your older XL1 or XL1s and you can use all your adapters, batteries, lenses, supports etc. Also, if they were smart they'd ditch the stock crappy viewfinder in favor of a real CRT jobby. (But probably won't to keep pricepoints)

Now if Canon REALLY wanted to smoke everyone else, then they would slap real 16x9 ccd's in there, and ditch the miniDV format for something with a little more oompf. What that may be? I would love to see 1280x720HD and 4:2:2 colour. Then you'd be in a position to do some real damage.

I've reneged on buying more of expensive miniDV equipment (e.g. DVX100) because the format itself is extremely limited. I will not go above a certain price threshold because then I can get into film for just a bit more. For the price of the DVX100, I could rent 16mm cameras and shoot my next project on film.

Adrian