Private Investigator Needs Lowlight Help

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Allen Campbell

It's a thought. I do have a 17-55 & 70-200 in f/2.8 and a 50 1.8 all canon glass. I also have a 300 f/4.

How does the 200mm equate to a 12x video lens?

The 7D is nice I had one for a while and opted to keep my 50D. There is a cheaper build in the 550D that has the same sensor and such. Hmmm? I wonder?

EDIT------- 12x = 420mm on a camera.

Re: the HDSLR... see my first post.

The 7D is $1500. If you are going to shoot in low light (god I hate that term) F2.8 isn't going to cut it. You need to be in the F1.8 range. Try looking to see what long glass faster than F2.8 costs. That's why I didn't recommend it.

I have a 550D. It's nice. But the cost of the body is NOTHING compared to the cost of the glass. If you are going to want to sit across the street and film a house, you're in the 200-400mm range. And a 300mm F2.8 is in the neighborhood of $2500 *used*.

So you say a 12x zoom is 420mm eh? Says who? As far as I know, a 12x zoom merely means the long end is 12x the focal length of the short end. The short end could be 18mm or it could be 50mm. Unless you know what the short end is, saying a 12x is meaningless.

[Allen Campbell]

So you say a 12x zoom is 420mm eh? Says who? As far as I know, a 12x zoom merely means the long end is 12x the focal length of the short end. The short end could be 18mm or it could be 50mm. Unless you know what the short end is, saying a 12x is meaningless.

I stand corrected. The VX2100 lens spec is: Aspherical Lens 6.0-72.0mm f/1.6-2.4
43.2 - 518.4mm (Camera / Memory Mode)

And it looks like the VX2100 is still in the running.

I am still sweating the question if the time and date can be on the playback even when downloaded to DVD or converted to .wmv.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Allen Campbell

I am still sweating the question if the time and date can be on the playback even when downloaded to DVD or converted to .wmv.

Ah, you're asking for professional features now. You're choice of preferred mini-DV won't let you play. Sorry, you don't get to play cheap on the tape format, and have the pro level features. You have to step up to pro level for that. Or go file based and bite the bullet on handing over a card.

[Don Bloom]

It can be on the PD series. The menu will take you to "display time and date" which will burn it to the tape so when you edit and go to DVS it's there, like it or not.
Now this is not a time code per say but the time and date of the shoot. The clock shows the time just like any other prosumer camera.
Having said all of that I am about 99.99999% sure the VX series can do the same.

[Allen Campbell]

I hope So, I just read in the manual where it says you can toggle if it displays or not.

I can do it with my PV-GS500. The below may make some of you pro's laugh but its the only way I know as a self taught individual.

The tape stays as is for possible courtroom purposes. I do copy it to DVD's for editing to make a money shot only version. In this trade you just let it roll. If you try and anticipate when to start and stop the REC you miss the money most of the time.
I playback from my camcorder to my set top DVD burner and see the time and date displayed on the TV.
It burns showing the Time & Date to a DVD-RW I use for transport to a PC.

I then put the DVD-RW into the PC optical drive and use DVD Dcrypter and pull it off to a folder. I eject the DVD-RW to be formatted for next time.
Then I use IfoEdit to tweak the flags to default it to play in 16:9 and create an image.
I then burn the image (uncut version) to a DVD-R for ease of playback in the office without needing my camcorder to play back the tape.
Now I use Amerisofts video converter to convert it to a .wmv file, and use MS Movie Maker to edit out the non money shot content.
Then we upload the .wmv files in chapters to our case management site where the client can log into from anywhere and see the results.

99% of the time the .wmv files are enough. When the guilty party sees it they fold and negotiate.

[Perrone Ford]

Oh, I see what you're saying. You actually want a burn in... yea that's different and most cameras can do that. I thought you are after something more akin to time code, and that's generally not available on consumer models.

Well, sounds like you have what you're looking for. Best of luck!

[Allen Campbell]

Oh, I see what you're saying. You actually want a burn in... yea that's different and most cameras can do that. I thought you are after something more akin to time code, and that's generally not available on consumer models.

You gave me a scare,

[Adam Gold]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

You actually want a burn in...most cameras can do that.

Actually, most can't, not anymore, not since VHS. In the DV realm from Sony, the PDs do but the VXes don't. On the VXes, you can display the date during playback by choosing DATA CODE > Date & Time, but this isn't burned into the tape.

Most pro cams can but most prosumer and straight consumer cams don't actually burn the date and time into the picture.

And just to be clear, when you display the time and date by using DATA CODE > Date & Time, this does not go out over the firewire so there's no way to burn it onto a DVD or permanently put it on your files for editing unless you just do an analog dub via the Composite A/V port. It just displays the date & time when played back on the cam or any compatible device, which must also support this feature (i.e. a Sony Deck like the DSR-11). If your DVD burner accepts Composite a/v in then this should work.

There is also a utility called DVDATE which will automatically burn in the time and date while editing with DV files, but it doesn't work with HDV. But again it's not burned into the camera original tape, only the rendered files, which courts may not like.

[Allen Campbell]

Thanks Again All,

I need an optical zoom equation solved now or a link to the answer. I have been googling but cannot get a clear or layman's explanation.

My Panasonic GS500 lens spec is:
Auto iris, F1.6 to F2.8, Focal length; 3.3 mm to 39.6 mm, Macro (Full range AF) 43mm filter dia.

The VX-2100 lens spec:
58mm Aspherical Lens f (Focal Distance) 6.0-72.0mm f (35mm Conversion) 43.2-518.4mm (camera mode) 43.2-518.4mm (memory mode)

Both are 12x zooms. So, I take it the math has the VX2100 showing a closer image when both are zoomed on the same subject from the same distance when zoomed all the way in?

[Allen Campbell]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a used VX2100 in "Demo" condition unit from Adorama for $1610.00 shipped with a 2 year MAC warranty. B&H's best refurb was $1699.00 starting out. Adorama started negotiating prices as soon as I started to end the call. I was just calling to see what was in the box and to ask about the policies. He got me. She will not ship until Monday due to the Jewish Holiday.

This is supposed to be in like new condition. So I will be seeing for myself and reporting here on what I find as far as time stamp transfer, low light and zoom comparisons between my it and my PV-GS500.

I have 15 days to put her through the paces and decide to keep it or loose shipping costs as long as I do not fill out the MAC paper work until I decide.

To save time I will be wanting to ask (after I receive it) about a menu setting starting point as far as low light conditions and wonder if I should start a new post in another category? I will most likely be shooting from inside a factory tinted glass vehicle at street or porch lighted scenes.

Thanks Guys

[Adam Gold]

I think you'll be very happy with the VX, especially for that price.

So the burning in of date and time is not a critical function for you? I thought most courts wanted camera original with the date and time burned in.

You can't really compare lenses by their actual focal lengths because the tele factor is really dependent on chip size. As you've seen, most Sony spec sheets specify the focal lengths in 35mm cam equivalent but Panasonic doesn't, so it's difficult to tell which will get you closer, the VX or the GS500. I suppose the only way you can compare the lenses is to put them side by side when your new cam arrives and see which one goes closer.

[Allen Campbell]

Thanks,

From the manual,
Recording date and time is not displayed during shooting, however it is automatically recorded on the tape. You can check the recording date and time during playback by pressing DATA CODE.
DATA CODE * To display date and time during play back.

So, what I'm hoping for is when I playback via S VIDEO out to the set top DVD burner and press DATA CODE it will display the date & Time. If it does it will be on the DVD. My burner records what is displayed in the screen. This will be a deal maker/breaker for sure.
If it works over firewire that will be good too.
I like S VIDEO because I can avoid the audio if I somehow got some in the recording. Unless I'm doing an interview I usually have an external mic plug inserted with no mic. We avoid sound because of embarrassing things like bodily function noises, office or personal phone calls, comments like "Look at the great a** on that!" winding up on the tape playing back in the courtroom. :-)~

[Adam Gold]

It should work over SVideo, but it probably won't over FW. If it doesn't work over SVideo it'll come out over composite a/v. No real advantage to using SVideo over composite as your image will be pretty crappy due to the low light anyway (unless your DVD Burner doesn't take regular composite a/v).

[Allen Campbell]

Thanks Guys,

I have the VX2100 and the low light difference between the VX2100 and the panny GS500 is amazing. I directed both cams toward scene at dusk and put both in their AES low light modes and the VX produced a scene and the GS was pitch black. It was at an umbrella on my neighbors back porch with no light source. I think the GS needs a source where the VX did not. I was impressed with its ability to auto focus at all, even though I know I will have to use manual on a case to make sure.

It looks like this cam will get me at least an hour more shooting time at sunrise and dusk. With some ambient light provided the detail will improve I'm sure. Now to get into the manual controls fun.

Do you guys know what the VX2100 uses for shutter speed in its low light mode and if I can match it manually?
What is the lowest shutter speed you would use to record humans at walking speeds or less?

Thanks.

[Allen Campbell]

Hi Guys,

Well, I sent the VX2100 back to Adorama because the internal batteries were bad and they opted to refund me. So I am shopping again.